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Blade_and_Blood
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As I’ve said many times before, I like to call them the broken branch of the Christmas tree. 
Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
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LDSGuy
Guest
Zerinus is saying what we believe. We believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the continuation of the original Church founded by Jesus Christ. We have the restored Gospel. Yes we agree that there are four Gospels. That has nothing to do with us saying the “restored Gospel” or the “Gospel of Jesus Christ”. You believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth, is the same Church established by Jesus Christ, etc. etc. Obviously Latter-day Saints don’t believe that, and of course Catholics don’t believe the LDS belief. Did you know that many evangelicals and others think the Catholic Church is a cult as well? There are MULTIPLE websites about the cult of Mary, Papism, etc., for every website that calls the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a cult.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
CJ Nick, you are experiencing a way of sharing mormonism that mormons are taught by their leaders. It is this: Don’t answer the question that is asked. Answer the question that should have been asked.
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ricko
Guest
Almost every Mormon does it.
Catholic…“The LDS church is a cult”
Mormon…“Almost everyone calls you a cult too. So there!”
End of discussion
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RebeccaJ
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LDSGuy
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yes, just because someone calls you something doesn’t mean that you are.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I can understand Mormons believing something entirely different, even though I may reject any teachings they proclaim, as there are many beliefs in the world today. What I have trouble understanding, is why they are intimidated by questions or points brought up by those of another belief.
Why don’t Mormons answer straight forward questions, or address straight forward points brought up? The OP provided several points for discussion, and it was clearly avoided because the title was more “expressive”?
You can ask a Catholic any direct question, and they will do their best to answer the question, if they know the answer. Ask a Mormon a direct question, and they’ll give you the answer to the question you should’ve asked. It’s almost as if they are ashamed to give the answer or they know the answer is going to be a hard sell, which would result in more questions.
Personally, I am suspect of anything that someone cannot give a straightforward answer too.
Why don’t Mormons answer straight forward questions, or address straight forward points brought up? The OP provided several points for discussion, and it was clearly avoided because the title was more “expressive”?
You can ask a Catholic any direct question, and they will do their best to answer the question, if they know the answer. Ask a Mormon a direct question, and they’ll give you the answer to the question you should’ve asked. It’s almost as if they are ashamed to give the answer or they know the answer is going to be a hard sell, which would result in more questions.
Personally, I am suspect of anything that someone cannot give a straightforward answer too.
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LDSGuy
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I suggest you read more from actual Latter-day Saint sources, as there are a couple errors in your post.Good day all
I have recently read several threads where our Mormon friends have insisted that they are indeed Christians. I have read many efforts they have made to lend credibilty to their claims of Christianity. ( I have appreciated and enjoyed much of their contributions. I have also admired some, who have done so in a warm and respectful manner.)
I will do my VERY best to return that respect and consideration to them in offering the following.
A very basic view of Christianity:
Christianity is a monotheistic religion
God has always been God
God created all things
God, himself, was not created
God created man
Man is not the same species as God
( With great respect, it is my belief that the teachings of Mormonism is very polytheistic )
The year 1844, ( Founder of Mormonism ) Mr. Joseph Smith Clearly taught ( King Follet Sermon ) " We have imagined God was God from all eternity, I will refute that and take away the veil so you all can see that our God was once a man on a different Earth before he became God of our Earth" ( The begining, certainly not the end, of the Mormon teaching on Exaltation )
This is in direct conflict of the very fundamental teaching of Christainity.
The virgin birth of Jesus is not the same as the Christain belief.
Mormons teach that Jesus is the literal son of our literal living God ( God the father has fleash and bone, has many wives). The Mormon teaching is that Mary, also the literal offspring of God, is impregnated by Elohim. They teach that Mary was a virgin at the time of conception not at the time of Jesus’ birth. ( Jesus is the literal, physical offspring of God.)
So, do Mormons teach that there is only one God ( not at all ) They do say that our God is the only one for us on this Earth ( Currently lives on a planet called Kalob ) but they indeed strive to become Exalted to become a God of their own Earth some day where they will be able to populate their own Earth with spirit children. ( God has a God, who has a God, who has a God and so on). Sounds very polytheistic, IMHO.
Mormons do try to appear to be Christain but it is my humble opinion that the substance and teachings of their religion is not what we find in the most basic, fundamental view of the Christain umbrella.
I hope I have not offended any of my LDS friends who hold a different belief as I do nor was it my intention to be contentious. I am simply offering my response to much of what I have been reading on other threads.
Peace and God bless,
CJ
-By “kalob” do you mean Kolob? And we do not believe that God lives on a planet called Kolob. The scripture says that the dwelling place of God is near a star called Kolob, and that passage also has a deeper meaning than that.
-We do not believe that God physically impregnated Mary. Some may have speculated or implied various beliefs, however we do not believe that God had sexual relations with Mary.
-becoming gods does not take away from the glory of God, rather, we become joint-heirs in Jesus Christ, and it is through Him that we may become gods.
-Are Mormons part of the Christian family? If by Christian you mean a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, one who believes in salvation through Jesus Christ, then yes, we are part of the Christian family. If you define Christian as one who believes in the Trinity and various other traditional Christian beliefs, than no, Mormons are not Christian. Likewise, if we Latter-day Saints define Christians as one who believes in salvation through Jesus Christ, a believer and follower of Christ, then Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, etc. are Christians. However if a LDS defines a Christian as one who follows the restored Gospel, the restored beliefs of Jesus Christ, then no, those above groups are not Christian. This goes both ways.
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ParkerD
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CJ,Good day all
I have recently read several threads where our Mormon friends have insisted that they are indeed Christians. I have read many efforts they have made to lend credibility to their claims of Christianity. ( I have appreciated and enjoyed much of their contributions. I have also admired some, who have done so in a warm and respectful manner.)
I will do my VERY best to return that respect and consideration to them in offering the following.
A very basic view of Christianity:
Christianity is a monotheistic religion
God has always been God
God created all things
God, himself, was not created
God created man
Man is not the same species as God
( With great respect, it is my belief that the teachings of Mormonism is very polytheistic )
The year 1844, ( Founder of Mormonism ) Mr. Joseph Smith Clearly taught ( King Follet Sermon ) " We have imagined God was God from all eternity, I will refute that and take away the veil so you all can see that our God was once a man on a different Earth before he became God of our Earth" ( The beginning, certainly not the end, of the Mormon teaching on Exaltation )
This is in direct conflict of the very fundamental teaching of Christianity.
The virgin birth of Jesus is not the same as the Christian belief.
Mormons teach that Jesus is the literal Son of our literal living God ( God the Father has flesh and bone, and we have a Heavenly Mother. This instead of the self-evident “obvious” creedal Christian teaching that God is incorporeal, infinite, incomprehensible, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere). The Mormon teaching is that Mary, also the literal offspring of her parents, was impregnated by Elohim by being overshadowed by the Holy Ghost. They teach that Mary was a virgin at the time of conception and at the time of Jesus’ birth. She bore Jesus through her birth canal. (Thus, Jesus is the literal, physical offspring of God and Mary. This means He actually had within Himself manhood as well as Godhood, and could lay down His life as a man yet be resurrected because He was also God the Son.)
So, do Mormons teach that there is only one God? ( not at all ) They do say that our God is the only one for us on this Earth. (Currently lives on a planet near Kolob ) but they indeed strive to become Exalted (perfect in Christ) and actually be “joint heirs with Jesus Christ” just as John the Revelator taught, after eons of time in the future, a god of an Earth they will help create some day where they will be able to populate their Earth with spirit children so those spirit children can also progress like humans can progress to become joint-heirs with Christ. (God the Father became God eons of eternity before God the Son became God, who became God the Son eons of eternity before Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have become Gods through being joint-heirs with Jesus Christ, who promised to do that for all those in the pre-mortal world who committed to follow Jesus Christ through keeping covenants they would make on earth as mortals). Sounds very polytheistic, IMHO.
Mormons do try to appear to be Christian but it is my humble opinion that the substance and teachings of their religion is not what we find in the most basic, fundamental view of the Christian umbrella. *After all, the Christian umbrella was started by the Catholic Church, so we get to decide what fits under that umbrella.
*
I hope I have not offended any of my LDS friends who hold a different belief as I do nor was it my intention to be contentious. I am simply offering my response to much of what I have been reading on other threads.
Peace and God bless,
CJ
I wasn’t offended at all by your question when I noticed it earlier today, because the use of the term “family” was obviously meant to be exclusionary. Why be offended by a group of people who choose their own definition of a term and thus exclude people they want to exclude?
I call Catholics Christians. I call Protestants Christians. I call Seventh Day Adventists Christians. Why should I care what choice other people make in using a term as though it is a “club”? “Who’s in, who’s out?” It sounds high-schoolish to me, and I’m not bothered by it at all. I rather expect it since Mormon Christianity is so deep that of course creedal Christians are going to scoff at its ideas. Peace, all.
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ParkerD
Guest
CJ,
I forgot to add this:
Of course creedal Christians don’t believe that Stephen actually saw “Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:55-56) That was “metaphorical”.
“Creedal Christians get to interpret scriptural text the way it was ‘intended’ to be interpreted–the only correct way, of course, which is their way.”
Why should I be bothered by that. I’m not, at all. For me, the Bible speaks for itself, literally.
I forgot to add this:
Of course creedal Christians don’t believe that Stephen actually saw “Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:55-56) That was “metaphorical”.
“Creedal Christians get to interpret scriptural text the way it was ‘intended’ to be interpreted–the only correct way, of course, which is their way.”
Why should I be bothered by that. I’m not, at all. For me, the Bible speaks for itself, literally.
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Catholic20064
Guest
I am just happy Mormons desire to be part of the Christian family even though they are outside of it at this point. I think this desire will ultimately lead Mormons to the truth as found in our Catholic faith. They will be wonderful Catholics when they finally see the truth of what God has for them in the Catholic Church. We need to urge them to experience this by coming to our Catholic Churches and praying in the presence of Jesus. It’s impossible to discuss doctrine with them as long as they are blinded by the social pressure they find in Mormonism. But Christ can lead them home if they simply come to our Catholic chapels and begin to experience the real Jesus.Hi Catholic20064,
First ( welcome home
I understand and agree with your point ( 98 % ) and would add that we should pray for ALL to come to Christ ( even the ones who currently do not seek him ) BUT I also think the question ( " are Mormons part of the Christian family " ) is a very sound question. You see, we, as Christains must protect and defend what we hold as precious teachings of the Lord and must also keep Jesus’ teachings pure from deceit so that anyone who may be interested in Christainity not find their way to a religion that claims itself Christian, yet teaches and believes things that, at the very least, border on blasphemy.
At any rate, I do undertand your contributiuon
Welcome Home!!!
Peace,
CJ
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CarolinNC
Guest
I am sorry that this is a fruitless argument, but until a Mormon comes to the point of questioning and realizing the truth that the Book of Mormon is false, they will not be open to the real truth of Jesus. The Mormons have thrown out all of Christianity as we know it.
I know this because I was once a very devote Mormon.
But now, I am a very devote Catholic. May God be praised, may He be praised always and everywhere.
I know this because I was once a very devote Mormon.
But now, I am a very devote Catholic. May God be praised, may He be praised always and everywhere.
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Catholic20064
Guest
You are right to some extent, but I do know other Catholics who were once Mormon who had a positive experience with the Catholic faith that caused them to question the Book of Mormon rather than first realizing the Book of Mormon was false. Mormons reject the description of Jesus and God as found in the Book of Mormon in favor of their latter-day revelation. Some of the churches that accept the Book of Mormon reject the later revelations and believe in Jesus as the Book of Mormon teaches – they are trinitarian like the Community of Christ. Pray for Mormons that they will visit the Catholic Church and have their eyes open.
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CJ_Nick
Guest
Hi Rebecca,
Interesting !!!
Thanks for sharing ( your contribution seems accurate, atleast in part ).
Peace,
CJ
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agbasinger
Guest
Don’t they believe that the Holy Spirit is a physical being?
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CJ_Nick
Guest
Hi LDSGuy,
Thanks for taking the time to reply
Yes, I did mean Kolob ( thank you for the correction )
To avoid contention, I will simply offer that many LDS members that I spoke with on LDS.NET did suggest that Mary was indeed physically impregnated by God the Father.
So that I am clear, do you ( LDS ) believe/taught that Jesus is your spirit brother ?? ( That Jesus, like you, are literal offspring of Heavenly Father??
With great respect, if you believe you can become Gods ( regardless of the " through Jesus/joint heirs ") then how can you possibly consider the LDS religion as anything but polytheist??
Regretfully, I would suggest to you that Mr. Joseph Smith has led his followers away from Christianity from the very begining.
By the way, to be clear, I do not judge you or any LDS members ( I have my hands full with myself in trying to stay in line with what our Lord taught us and I am indeed a broken sinner )
I am simply trying to have a discussion as to ( IMHO ) the reasons the LDS church is not part of " Christian " due to the teachings and beliefs that completly contradict the very basic beliefs of ALL Christians.
Peace,
CJ
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CJ_Nick
Guest
Hi ParkerD
Not sure how to take this ( sorry if you were offended )
I do not WANT to exclude you my friend, I MUST exclude you to protect and defend the Christian faith that I believe to be in jeopardy and at risk with the Mormon teachings. Do you understand my perspective ??
No, it is not a " club " nor do I think it is a " who’s in, who’s out " high-schoolish game. On the contrary, it is crucial and of MOST importance that Christians stand against and defend any and all that teach, pophetize, or lead their members in a direction that is away from Christianity.
I do appreciate your willingness to share with me/us.
Peace,
CJ
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ParkerD
Guest
CJ,
“Away from Christianity” should be revised to say "away from creedal Christianity as our sacred inerrant tradition has defined the term “Christianity”. The Bible has an implied description of a Christian, but never defines Christianity. But your exclusive “club” has, and that is totally fine with me. Again, I am not offended in the least. You can call yourselves whatever you want to call yourselves, and exclude whomever you want to exclude. I will continue to have the impression that it is high-schoolish, and that you don’t know what you’re talking about in defining the term. I know the Bible better than you do.
Peace to you.
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zerinus
Guest
You mean apostate Christian. I agree with you. You just need to choose your terms correctly. Then everything will make proper sense. Apostate religions have always banded together to fight against the true religions and new dispensations of the gospel. That is how it was in the days of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and every other prophet that has had an new dispensation of the gospel given to him. The Jews opposed and fought against Jesus and His new religion. The antediluvians fought against Noah and his new dispensation of the gospel. The unbelieving world of Abraham did the same thing to him. It has been so ever since creation. You are doing the same thing. The apostate religions of today, be they Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or any are combining to protect their (evil) interest against the unassailable force of the new dispensation. That is how it has always been, and that is how it will always be. But guess what: the new dispensations have always triumphed over the old apostate ones—in spite of all the opposition mounted against them; and that is how it will be with this one. You just need to define your terms correctly. Once you begin to call a spade a spade, and call Christianity apostate Christianity, everything will fall into place, and becomes understandable to everyone.
Yes, of course I do. All apostate religions have always felt the need to wage war on new dispensations of the gospel in order to protect their own (evil) interests; and I can understand that. That is perfectly understandable and true to character. Just make sure you define your terms correctly, and everything will fall neatly into place.
zerinus
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Another Mormon used the “dispensation” word to explain Mormon view of Christ…
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