Are Mormons part of the Christian family???

[CJ_Nick]

ParkerD and Zerinus,

Thank you both for your contributions.

ParkerD,

I am not sure if you know the Bible better than I, perhaps you do, perhaps you don’t ( Not sure what that contest would prove either way ).

Zerinus,

I am saddened by your common and freely use of the word " evil " but do completly understand where it comes from.

Thanks again for sharing

Hugs to you both

Peace,
CJ

 

[LDNCatholic]

Yes, of course I do. All apostate religions have always felt the need to wage war on new dispensations of the gospel in order to protect their own (evil) interests; and I can understand that. That is perfectly understandable and true to character. Just make sure you define your terms correctly, and everything will fall neatly into place.

zerinus

Yes of course, the Church established by Christ is ‘‘apostate’’, we apostasised from falsehood and evil.

Your boys in turn choose to restore that link to falsehood and follow an immoral racist murderer who lied to others and convinced them that he had recieved messages from an angel with no mention in previous scriptures. And that this new dispensation of the Gospel could only be viewed through a hat.

 

[zerinus]

Zerinus,

I am saddened by your common and freely use of the word " evil " but do completly understand where it comes from.

Well I am not going to sugarcoat it for you. I call a spade a spade. Opposition to Mormonism originates from the evil one, no matter how it is disguised, or who chooses to participate in it.

zerinus

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Mormons like to refer to others as “aspostate”, including themselves…

“We do not indorse the teachings of any so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. They have departed in a great measure from the faith of the Church of Christ as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word–the Book of Mormon–drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ’s teachings.”

• David Whitmer (an elder in the Church of Christ), 1887 [1]

I guess it all depends on which Mormon affliation you’re with…

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. The Church of Jesus Christ, and the LDS) is by far the largest Mormon denomination. It is a continuation of the “Rocky Mountain Saint” branch of Mormonism.
The more liberal Community of Christ (formerly called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) is second in size. It is a continuation of the “Prairie Saint” movement. Although generally referred to as “Mormons,” they do not use the term themselves, because of its association with polygamy and because they believe the name was not part of the original church.
Many additional small Mormon faith groups, including:
Aaronic Order: unknown membership; 6 centers; 20 ministers
Apostolic United Brethren: about 7,000 members. They disagree with the LDS’ decision to allow ordination of African-Americans and allowing women to assume leadership positions.
Church of Christ (Fetting/Bronson): about 2000 members
Church of Christ (Temple Lot): about 2400 members
The Church of Christ “With The Elijah Message,” established anew in 1929 12,500 members worldwide
Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite): about 2700 members
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: about 11 million members
The Community of Christ: about 250,000 members. This denomination was formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – the “RLDS Church”. It was formed in 1860 by remnants of the original church who did not make the trek to Utah. They reject certain beliefs and practices of the LDS church, including marriage sealing for eternity; they allow both men and women into the priesthood; their services are open to the public. They have about 250,000 members.
United Order Effort: a polygamy practicing group, excommunicated by the main LDS church, of perhaps 10,000 members
The Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It split from the Reorganized Church in 1991 because of the latter’s liberal theology. It is centered in Independence, Missouri, and had an estimated membership of 2,500 in mid-1996. They publish a periodical “The Restoration Advocate” six times a year

The Church of Christ (Temple Lot) even had this to say about other sects of Mormonism.

Reluctantly, we admit there has been apostasy from the restored gospel faith, through the introduction of human doctrine and by divisions having occured.

 

[ParkerD]

ParkerD and Zerinus,

Thank you both for your contributions.

ParkerD,

I am not sure if you know the Bible better than I, perhaps you do, perhaps you don’t ( Not sure what that contest would prove either way ).

Zerinus,

I am saddened by your common and freely use of the word " evil " but do completly understand where it comes from.

Thanks again for sharing

Hugs to you both

Peace,
CJ

CJ,
My statement about knowing the Bible reflects that I have read it many times, and take most of it literally moreso than do you. I also meant that you have defined a term by going outside of the Bible to define it in a way that makes sense to you and your group, but not in the way that the Bible would clearly define the term based on all the connotations within the Bible itself.

Again, peace.

 

[CJ_Nick]

Well I am not going to sugarcoat it for you. I call a spade a spade. Opposition to Mormonism originates from the evil one, no matter how it is disguised, or who chooses to participate in it.

zerinus

Fair enough my friend

I am indeed in complete opposition to Mormonism so I guess ALL non Mormons ( me included ) are with the evil one.

Peace,
CJ

 

[CJ_Nick]

CJ,
My statement about knowing the Bible reflects that I have read it many times, and take most of it literally moreso than do you. I also meant that you have defined a term by going outside of the Bible to define it in a way that makes sense to you and your group, but not in the way that the Bible would clearly define the term based on all the connotations within the Bible itself.

Again, peace.

Hi again Parker,

Thanks for the warm reply/clarification

Because I don’t think it will help ( rather, IMHO, would certainly come across as contentious ) I will not offer any of the countless Scripture versus that would contradict the LDS claims as to who God/Jesus is or how the very LDS prophets teachings do not comply with the words and teachings of Christ himself.

At any rate, thanks for the contribution.

Peace,
CJ

 

[zerinus]

Fair enough my friend

I am indeed in complete opposition to Mormonism so I guess ALL non Mormons ( me included ) are with the evil one.

Peace,
CJ

Not all “non-Mormons” are in opposition to Mormonism. In fact, most of them aren’t.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Because I don’t think it will help ( rather, IMHO, would certainly come across as contentious ) I will not offer any of the countless Scripture versus that would contradict the LDS claims as to who God/Jesus is or how the very LDS prophets teachings do not comply with the words and teachings of Christ himself.

Don’t worry. We have heard it all before.

zerinus

 

[CJ_Nick]

Not all “non-Mormons” are in opposition to Mormonism. In fact, most of them aren’t.

zerinus

Are you suggesting that most Christains ( okay apostate Christians ) are NOT in opposition to Mormonism ???. I can’t begin imagine that there is any truth in that statement.

Peace,
CJ

 

[CJ_Nick]

Don’t worry. We have heard it all before.

zerinus

I am confident you have heard it all before. The real question is have you answered it all before???

Peace,
CJ

 

[ParkerD]

Hi again Parker,

Thanks for the warm reply/clarification

Because I don’t think it will help ( rather, IMHO, would certainly come across as contentious ) I will not offer any of the countless Scripture versus that would contradict the LDS claims as to who God/Jesus is or how the very LDS prophets teachings do not comply with the words and teachings of Christ himself.

At any rate, thanks for the contribution.

Peace,
CJ

CJ,
I agree that it might come across as being contentious. There are plenty of discussions within this website about definitions, using scriptures that provide the connotation which Mormons obtain from Biblical verses, as compared with those few verses that Catholics cite.

Early on in this thread, some accused the LDS of backing down or changing the subject or the question, or not answering the question. I have not backed out, backed down, or changed the subject. (I did change and edit your initial post when I replied to you.) I am prepared to answer any question that is honestly asked in sincerity about LDS beliefs or why the LDS consider themselves Christians.

Peace to you and all. No need to be otherwise than at peace.

 

[CJ_Nick]

CJ,
I agree that it might come across as being contentious. There are plenty of discussions within this website about definitions, using scriptures that provide the connotation which Mormons obtain from Biblical verses, as compared with those few verses that Catholics cite.

Early on in this thread, some accused the LDS of backing down or changing the subject or the question, or not answering the question. I have not backed out, backed down, or changed the subject. (I did change and edit your initial post when I replied to you.) I am prepared to answer any question that is honestly asked in sincerity about LDS beliefs or why the LDS consider themselves Christians.

Peace to you and all. No need to be otherwise than at peace.

I appreciate and agree with you in large measure.

I have seen examples, in other threads, as to your offering of " different interpretations " of Sacred Scripture.

Can I ask you a few questions from my OP ??

Do you believe you can become a God of your own planet??

Do you think Mormonism is polytheist??

Are you taught/believe that our God was not always God but used to be a man of another planet??

Are you taught/believe Jesus is the literal spirit brother of mere humans and Lucifer??

Do you believe that Mary was a virgin at the conception of Christ and not at birth??

Do you believe God is not the very creator of all for all times??

Thanks in advance for the consideration

Peace,
CJ

 

[RebeccaJ]

CJ,

Early on in this thread, some accused the LDS of backing down or changing the subject or the question, or not answering the question. I have not backed out, backed down, or changed the subject. (I did change and edit your initial post when I replied to you.) I am prepared to answer any question that is honestly asked in sincerity about LDS beliefs or why the LDS consider themselves Christians.

Peace to you and all. No need to be otherwise than at peace.

Parker, I said this about the conversation that CJ Nick was experiencing at the time with another LDS person. You were not involved in that conversation.

 

[LDSGuy]

Hi LDSGuy,

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Yes, I did mean Kolob ( thank you for the correction )

To avoid contention, I will simply offer that many LDS members that I spoke with on LDS.NET did suggest that Mary was indeed physically impregnated by God the Father.

So that I am clear, do you ( LDS ) believe/taught that Jesus is your spirit brother ?? ( That Jesus, like you, are literal offspring of Heavenly Father??

With great respect, if you believe you can become Gods ( regardless of the " through Jesus/joint heirs ") then how can you possibly consider the LDS religion as anything but polytheist??

Regretfully, I would suggest to you that Mr. Joseph Smith has led his followers away from Christianity from the very begining.

By the way, to be clear, I do not judge you or any LDS members ( I have my hands full with myself in trying to stay in line with what our Lord taught us and I am indeed a broken sinner )
I am simply trying to have a discussion as to ( IMHO ) the reasons the LDS church is not part of " Christian " due to the teachings and beliefs that completly contradict the very basic beliefs of ALL Christians.

Peace,
CJ

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not believe that God had sexual relations with Mary, regardless of whether some on lds.net say that that He did.

Yes Jesus is our spirit brother.

We believe we can become gods. That does not mean that we worship other gods than God. Sure, call it polytheistic if you want. It may be more correct to say henotheistic.

Joseph Smith led us to the original Christianity, restored in these latter days. That is our belief.

 

[LDSGuy]

Mormons like to refer to others as “aspostate”, including themselves…

I guess it all depends on which Mormon affliation you’re with…

The Church of Christ (Temple Lot) even had this to say about other sects of Mormonism.

Mormons don’t refer to themselves as apostate. There are groups that split from the Church that claim to be the continuation of the Church of Jesus Christ. Many like to claim authority that they do not have. Similarly, there are various groups that claim to follow “traditional” Catholicism, as the Catholic Church has fallen away from it, in favor of liberalism. Then of course there’s the Protestant groups that also split off from the Catholic Church to form their own churches. Using the same logic, the Catholic Church is in apostasy as well (not looking at this from a LDS point of view, as obviously we believe that that is true). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true Mormon church, with the fullness of the Gospel.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not believe that God had sexual relations with Mary, regardless of whether some on lds.net say that that He did.

LDSGuy we have had this discussion before on this forum. There are former LDS here, like myself and others, who were indeed taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that God had sexual relations with Mary. I was taught it in Sunday School and seminary.

You have prophets and apostles that taught this as God’s divine truth. The mormons of that time believed what their prophets were telling them. Today, you call these prophetic teachings “opinion”. It is one of the things in mormonism that is non-sensical and that you cannot answer. How is something prophetic today, opinion tomorrow?

Today, certainly your church does not teacht his. And so you can say honestly that it does not. What you cannot say honestly is that when it was taught by your prophets and apostles, that it was their opinion.

Also, the LDS who continue to believe this and teach it to others didn’t just pull this belief out of the air. They were taught it, like I was, at church.

And last, is that this goes again to the fruit of mormonism. All people speculate about the mysteries of God. A Catholic would never in their life speculate that God had sexual relationships, and that Jesus is a half-diety. Your church may not teach this today, but it is a perfectly reasonable thing for a mormon to speculate about. It fits into your beliefs about your god.

We believe we can become gods. That does not mean that we worship other gods than God. Sure, call it polytheistic if you want. It may be more correct to say henotheistic.

Henotheism is a form of polytheism.

 

[CJ_Nick]

Joseph Smith led us to the original Christianity, restored in these latter days. That is our belief.

Hello again LDSGuy,

Can you tell me where in the original Christian Church ( I assume you mean the early Church of 2,000 years ago, right??) they taught or believed in the things that Joseph taught and believed???

Thanks and Peace,
CJ

 

[LDSGuy]

LDSGuy we have had this discussion before on this forum. There are former LDS here, like myself and others, who were indeed taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that God had sexual relations with Mary. I was taught it in Sunday School and seminary.

You have prophets and apostles that taught this as God’s divine truth. The mormons of that time believed what their prophets were telling them. Today, you call these prophetic teachings “opinion”. It is one of the things in mormonism that is non-sensical and that you cannot answer. How is something prophetic today, opinion tomorrow?

Today, certainly your church does not teacht his. And so you can say honestly that it does not. What you cannot say honestly is that when it was taught by your prophets and apostles, that it was their opinion.

Also, the LDS who continue to believe this and teach it to others didn’t just pull this belief out of the air. They were taught it, like I was, at church.

And last, is that this goes again to the fruit of mormonism. All people speculate about the mysteries of God. A Catholic would never in their life speculate that God had sexual relationships, and that Jesus is a half-diety. Your church may not teach this today, but it is a perfectly reasonable thing for a mormon to speculate about. It fits into your beliefs about your god.

Henotheism is a form of polytheism.

Brigham Young:

“…[T]here is no act, no principle, no power belonging to the Deity that is not purely philosophical. The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.”

Yes, as stated above, various people did speculate on the exact nature of Jesus’ conception. However it was never posited as official belief. I was taught about Limbo in Catholic sunday school as well, a topic which many have speculated on, and yet it isn’t official belief. I believe other Latter day Saints on this forum have discussed the matter of official doctrine in the Church, and whether something is a prophecy, or something is binding for all members to believe in. This can help explain your confusion.

Yes henotheism is a form of polytheism. Like I said-“Sure, call it polytheistic if you want. It may be more correct to say henotheistic.”

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Mormons don’t refer to themselves as apostate. There are groups that split from the Church that claim to be the continuation of the Church of Jesus Christ. Many like to claim authority that they do not have. Similarly, there are various groups that claim to follow “traditional” Catholicism, as the Catholic Church has fallen away from it, in favor of liberalism. Then of course there’s the Protestant groups that also split off from the Catholic Church to form their own churches. Using the same logic, the Catholic Church is in apostasy as well (not looking at this from a LDS point of view, as obviously we believe that that is true). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true Mormon church, with the fullness of the Gospel.

Oh, I must have misunderstood what apostasy, as used by the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), meant. How did a Church without authority end up owning the temple lot?

As for apostasies, they have been going on, even while Christ walked the earth.

Joh 6:66 After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him.

By Mormon logic, we’d have to “restore” the Church right then…

Mormons are all over these forums denying the Catholic Church is the true Church Christ built, with the fullness of truth. What makes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the “true” Mormon Church over the others? If you apply the same logic Mormons use, that is the early Church suffered and Apostasy and had to be restored, the Mormon Church suffered it’s own apostasy, according to the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), and now it has to be “restored”.