Are Mormons part of the Christian family???

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Prodigal_Son1 said:
Oh, I must have misunderstood what apostasy, as used by the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), meant. How did a Church without authority end up owning the temple lot?

As for apostasies, they have been going on, even while Christ walked the earth.

Joh 6:66 After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him.

By Mormon logic, we’d have to “restore” the Church right then…

Mormons are all over these forums denying the Catholic Church is the true Church Christ built, with the fullness of truth. What makes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the “true” Mormon Church over the others? If you apply the same logic Mormons use, that is the early Church suffered and Apostasy and had to be restored, the Mormon Church suffered it’s own apostasy, according to the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), and now it has to be “restored”.
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but what does the Great Apostasy mean? This is why your statement-“By Mormon logic, we’d have to “restore” the Church right then…” doesn’t make sense.
 
LDSGuy said:
Brigham Young:

“…[T]here is no act, no principle, no power belonging to the Deity that is not purely philosophical. The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.”

Yes, as stated above, various people did speculate on the exact nature of Jesus’ conception. However it was never posited as official belief. I was taught about Limbo in Catholic sunday school as well, a topic which many have speculated on, and yet it isn’t official belief. I believe other Latter day Saints on this forum have discussed the matter of official doctrine in the Church, and whether something is a prophecy, or something is binding for all members to believe in. This can help explain your confusion.
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I have asked, actually, several mormons. You believe that what you are taught at your general conferences are teachings that are prophetic, not just some guy making stuff up and delivering BS across the pulpit at the LDS conference center. You believe what they are saying because you believe they are apostles and are teaching truth. This is the very same for people who heard those teachings from BY.

As I said, mormons can believe that God having sex with Mary is a doctrinally correct thing to believe, even if you don’t believe it as doctrine. Limbo is a doctrinally correct teaching for a Catholic to believe, still is. The Church did not nullify this belief, it only clarified that it is doctrinally correct to believe in God’s Mercy. Which, is nothing new.
Yes henotheism is a form of polytheism. Like I said-“Sure, call it polytheistic if you want. It may be more correct to say henotheistic.” :confused:
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Christians worship AND believe in One God and One God only.
 
LDSGuy said:
but what does the Great Apostasy mean? This is why your statement-“By Mormon logic, we’d have to “restore” the Church right then…” doesn’t make sense.
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Well, if the disciples of the Lord, who outnumbered the Apostles, left Him and walked with Him no more, wouldn’t that be a “great apostasy”?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Well, if the disciples of the Lord, who outnumbered the Apostles, left Him and walked with Him no more, wouldn’t that be a “great apostasy”?
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The Great Apostasy is about the loss of the priesthood authority and keys.
 
I have asked the following of 3 different Mormons and I received 3 different answers. I’d like to see your explanation, if you would.

According to the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Joseph Smith prophesied a Temple would be built in Missouri, appointed by his finger, dedicated by his hand, and before the generation that heard the prophesy passed away. That was over 160 years ago and the Temple has not been built yet. If it were to be built today, there’s no way it can be dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, who was fatally shot in the Carthage jail. Then the problem of who owns the lot comes into play. It appears the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) Mormons owns the lot. Please explain how this is not a false prophesy.

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 84:1 - 5
1 A arevelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they bunited their hearts and clifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the arestoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his bprophets, and for the cgathering of his dsaints to stand upon eMount Zion, which shall be the city of fNew Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be abuilt, beginning at the btemple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and cdedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city aNew Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple,** which btemple shall be creared in this dgeneration**.
5 For verily this generation shall not all apass away until an bhouse shall be built unto the Lord, and a ccloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the dglory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
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Also, it’s my understanding that Mormons believe Christ and Satan are “spirit brothers”. How is this reconciled with the following scriptures?

**Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1Jn 4:9 By this hath the charity of God appeared towards us, because God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we may live by him.**
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I have asked the following of 3 different Mormons and I received 3 different answers. I’d like to see your explanation, if you would.

According to the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Joseph Smith prophesied a Temple would be built in Missouri, appointed by his finger, dedicated by his hand, and before the generation that heard the prophesy passed away. That was over 160 years ago and the Temple has not been built yet. If it were to be built today, there’s no way it can be dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, who was fatally shot in the Carthage jail. Then the problem of who owns the lot comes into play. It appears the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) Mormons owns the lot. Please explain how this is not a false prophesy.

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 84:1 - 5

Also, it’s my understanding that Mormons believe Christ and Satan are “spirit brothers”. How is this reconciled with the following scriptures?

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1Jn 4:9 By this hath the charity of God appeared towards us, because God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we may live by him.
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Here is one answer:

en.fairmormon.org/Independence_temple_to_be_built_%22in_this_generation%22
 
LDSGuy said:
this has been discussed ad nauseum here, and there are many sources available that discuss the Great Apostasy.

fairlds.org/Restoring_the_Ancient_Church/chap02.html
jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Restoration.shtml
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Yes, we have. They are warnings to people to remain faithful, which is not saying the entire church lost everything that Jesus gave us. Or they are speaking of specific events, people or groups of people. Which again, says nothing about a complete and total apostasy as Mormons claim.

(And Jeff Lindsay…please.)
 
Because reading those links will give you a fuller understanding of our beliefs than I feel like typing at the moment. We’ve actually answered these questions over and over, and so I point on-Latter day Saints to various resources that we Latter day Saints read. Are you uncomfortable reading those sources?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
All I did was ask where that was in scriptures. Why is it so hard to give that as opposed to typing two links?
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Your question is like asking, Give my scriptures that show that Mary is the Co-redemptrix, the Queen of Heaven, etc. It’s more complex than simply copy and pasting scriptures.
 
LDSGuy said:
Because reading those links will give you a fuller understanding of our beliefs than I feel like typing at the moment. We’ve actually answered these questions over and over, and so I point on-Latter day Saints to various resources that we Latter day Saints read. Are you uncomfortable reading those sources?
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Well since we’re in a discussion, it seems you would discuss, unless there’s some reason for you to be uncomfortable with the explanation. If you’re not here to discuss, why are you here on a Catholic forum?
 
LDSGuy said:
Your question is like asking, Give my scriptures that show that Mary is the Co-redemptrix, the Queen of Heaven, etc. It’s more complex than simply copy and pasting scriptures.
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I didn’t think providing scriptures as part of my question was all that complex…

How do you know you’ve asked a tough question of a Mormon? They will change the subject and avoid answering by providing many excuses. :rolleyes:

Don’t ask for answers, just drink the kool-aid…
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I didn’t think providing scriptures as part of my question was all that complex…

How do you know you’ve asked a tough question of a Mormon? They will change the subject and avoid answering by providing many excuses. :rolleyes:
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:rolleyes: Because providing a parallel example of why simply regurgitating scriptures to explain a complex doctrine or belief is changing the subject…

And your question is not complex. The doctrinal issues are
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Well since we’re in a discussion, it seems you would discuss, unless there’s some reason for you to be uncomfortable with the explanation. If you’re not here to discuss, why are you here on a Catholic forum?
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Oh I’ve discussed here for quite some time. I find that providing alternative sources for information on Mormon Christianity is important, as many here simply read the anti/ex Mormon information and present it as truth. There are SO many misconceptions of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on this board, including the first post on this thread.

And I used to be Catholic, and can see many of the apologetic tactics that fundies and others use against Catholics (such as on CARM) used against Mormons on this forum. Regurgitating scriptures is one such tactic, and we both know that not everything is in scripture or that we are sola-scriptura. We both believe that Tradition is also important, and we both believe that our doctrines do not contradict Scripture.
 
zerinus said:
I would rather focus on the title to your post rather than its content, as it tends to be more expressive.

Define for me “the Christian family”. Mormonism is a new dispensation of the gospel. A new dispensation means a new revelation of the gospel from heaven. It is a new beginning. And a new beginning becomes necessary when the old one has been lost or destroyed in some way. We call that the Apostasy. The mistake you are making is that you are trying to judge the veracity of the new dispensation on the basis of the criteria or yardstick of the old apostate one. You are saying that the new dispensation must look like the Apostate one in order for it to be true. Well, you don’t need to have the brain of Einstein to figure out that that logic is flawed. The yardstick you want to use with which to judge Mormonism is a false yardstick. If that yardstick was okay, a new dispensation of the gospel would not have been necessary in the first place. The fact that a new dispensation of the gospel has been revealed means that your old yardstick is worthless as a means of determining the truth of Mormonism. That means that what you call “Christian family” is actually “Apostate-Christian family”. So your thread title is incorrectly formulated. The correct formulation is: “Are Mormons part of the Apostate-Christian family???” The answer to that of course is No! Mormonism is a new dispensation of the Gospel, therefore it cannot be a part of the Apostate-Christian family.

zerinus
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In my opinion, if this truly is the teaching of the mainstream Mormon Church, then it answers the question. What we know as the basic tenants of Orthodox Christianity are not what they teach because those tenants are regarded as an “old and apostate dispensation”. In other words, the Gospel that we know and believe is worthless and no longer affective as a means to reach Heaven and fellowship with God. Seems pretty simple to me.
 
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