Are Mormons part of the Christian family???

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:rolleyes: Because providing a parallel example of why simply regurgitating scriptures to explain a complex doctrine or belief is changing the subject…

And your question is not complex. The doctrinal issues are
I’ve seen the video…don’t answer the question they ask, answer the question they should’ve asked. Milk before meat. I would provide a link to the video, but it has been removed due to copyrights of BYU. 😉
 
I have read ( some ) of the very long fairslds link. I understand your claim of Great Apostasy and with great respect offered, do not see any evidence from Scripyure or any early Church Fathers that this " complete lights out " took place. I am in agrrement that ( as Jesus himself taught ) that there was and is apostasy among the body of his Church.

Although the link did provide much of LDS claims and beliefs, it did not answer my question to you. I will try it again, if I may.

You claim that JS " restored " Christ’ Church back to the authentic one that existed in time of the original 12 apostles ( approx 1800 years before Joseph had his claimed first vision ), right? My question to you is can you tell me where in Scripture, Jesus’ teachings, or any of the hundreds of early Church Fathers writtings that they taught or believed anything like what Joseph taught or believed??? If not, he really didn’t restore anything about Jesus but introduces a whole new and different Jesus, no??

Peace,
CJ
 
There are SO many misconceptions of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on this board, including the first post on this thread.
Hey, I think that would be me 🙂

What misconceptions of the LDS have I posted in my OP??

Peace,
CJ
 
Why do Mormons use the KJV of the Bible if they think that the church was in apostacy since the beginning of Christianity until Smith restored it? Isn’t that an apostacized book, a Protestant book? Should they be reading the Bible at all?
 
Why do Mormons use the KJV of the Bible if they think that the church was in apostacy since the beginning of Christianity until Smith restored it? Isn’t that an apostacized book, a Protestant book? Should they be reading the Bible at all?
again, please learn what the Great Apostasy actually means.
 
Hey, I think that would be me 🙂

What misconceptions of the LDS have I posted in my OP??

Peace,
CJ
😉 A striking misconception is that God lives on the planet Kolob.

And I’ll address your previous post soon, trying to do two things at once right now, and that one will require more than a simple response of course.
 
I have asked the following of 3 different Mormons and I received 3 different answers. I’d like to see your explanation, if you would.

According to AN INCORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Joseph Smith prophesied (NO) a Temple would be built in Missouri, appointed by his finger (NO), dedicated by his hand (THE GROUND), and before the generation that heard the prophesy passed away. That was over 160 years ago and the Temple has not been built yet. If it were to be built today, there’s no way it can be dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, who was fatally shot in the Carthage jail. Then the problem of who owns the lot comes into play. It appears the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) Mormons owns the lot. Please explain how this is not a false prophesy.

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 84:1 - 5
1 A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

.
Prodigal Son,
I noticed your questions, and that you want simple answers rather than thorough answers.

Here are simple answers:

Joseph Smith had dedicated ground for the building of a temple in Jackson County, Missouri. That ground is what was “appointed by the finger of the Lord” and “dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jr.” Those events had already happened.

God wants His people to be a Zion people. He wants His people to build a New Jerusalem which is Zion. Whenever He has a covenant people, He enjoins them to build Zion. A temple is a part of Zion. Here are two scriptures about that:

Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Obadiah 1:17 ¶ But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
• • •
21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord’s.

The LDS were not righteous enough after Joseph Smith had dedicated the ground for the temple, to build it immediately, nor would the non-LDS people of Missouri cooperate or allow for such a building to be built. What you are thinking is a prophecy is actually an injunction by God for the LDS to build the temple they needed to build to have Zion, but since that group of LDS weren’t yet righteous enough, and the non-LDS people around them were belligerent about the whole idea of an LDS “New Jerusalem” being built anywhere in Missouri, the temple-building project was delayed and eventually was moved to Nauvoo, IL, where a temple was built and where temple ordinances were performed. The temple was built in “that generation.” Joseph Smith had already done his part by dedicating ground for a temple and by providing the injunction from God to build a temple. The Saints carried on and finished the temple-building project (in Nauvoo) after he was killed.

Zion is built up wherever there is a temple and a Zion people. So now there are over a hundred places for Zion to be built, and for the LDS saints to gather to Zion. Eventually, during the Millenium, a New Jerusalem will be a part of the Zion of North America.
 
So, do Mormons teach that there is only one God ( not at all ) They do say that our God is the only one for us on this Earth ( Currently lives on a planet called Kalob ) but they indeed strive to become Exalted to become a God of their own Earth some day where they will be able to populate their own Earth with spirit children. ( God has a God, who has a God, who has a God and so on). Sounds very polytheistic, IMHO.

CJ
Dear LDSGuy,

Of the several points I made in the OP, you have chosen a very small part ( God lives on the planet Kolob) of this paragraph to illustrate my MANY MISCONCEPTIONS of Mormonism???:confused:

Please tell me that there are other misconceptions about Mormonism in my OP that you are referring to.

Peace,
CJ
 
Why do Mormons use the KJV of the Bible if they think that the church was in apostacy since the beginning of Christianity until Smith restored it? Isn’t that an apostacized book, a Protestant book? Should they be reading the Bible at all?
Christine,
Fair enough question. John Wycliffe and William Tyndale gave their lives to get the Bible translated into English. The LDS believe these men were inspired by the Holy Ghost to do that. The King James Bible was also inspired by the light of Christ through men doing their best, often using Tyndale’s translation. The words themselves have always been priceless, and the many people who preserved those words gave the world a treasure. The LDS love that treasure as much as or perhaps more than anyone else, because we see the hand of God in the whole unfolding of what the world has today and what we are overjoyed to study as the King James Bible. Of course we should be reading the Bible, as much as anyone else.
 
A small attempt to lighten up this thread as we all try and share what we hold as precious :)🙂

Please continue to post as this thread is approaching 100 posts. I, being the OP, will be recieving my free " 100 posts " coffee cup from CAF.

Thank you all who have helped me get so very close to this free gift.🙂

Peace,
CJ
 
Christine,
Fair enough question. John Wycliffe and William Tyndale gave their lives to get the Bible translated into English. The LDS believe these men were inspired by the Holy Ghost to do that. The King James Bible was also inspired by the light of Christ through men doing their best, often using Tyndale’s translation. The words themselves have always been priceless, and the many people who preserved those words gave the world a treasure. The LDS love that treasure as much as or perhaps more than anyone else, because we see the hand of God in the whole unfolding of what the world has today and what we are overjoyed to study as the King James Bible. Of course we should be reading the Bible, as much as anyone else.
Latter Day Saints believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, believing that many “plain and precious things” have been lost.

I know KJV is the preferred translation for Mormons, but how much of it is translated incorrectly? Or is it correct? I’m confused about this, because Mormons tend to think that somehow the Bible has been translated incorrectly, yet they refuse to look at the older documents, in Greek, instead relying on KJV. This seems very odd to me.
 
Dear LDSGuy,

Of the several points I made in the OP, you have chosen a very small part ( God lives on the planet Kolob) of this paragraph to illustrate my MANY MISCONCEPTIONS of Mormonism???:confused:

Please tell me that there are other misconceptions about Mormonism in my OP that you are referring to.

Peace,
CJ
As I stated, God living on Kolob was the most striking example, as it is repeated over and over, and over and over, and it is clear that those that do state this are not reading the LDS scripture that this comes from, as the scripture clearly states that it is a star, not a planet. And even then, the scripture has a deeper meaning than that.

We already discussed Mary being physically impregnated by God to conceive Jesus. This was never official teaching, though various prophets have speculated on that topic.

The obsession with getting an Earth and making spirit babies is also profoundly not LDS. Latter day Saints focus on being joint-heirs in Christ, becoming gods, becoming like God. We do not focus on getting our own planets. This is another topic that is frequently brought up on anti-Mormon websites. And of course we believe in one God (three beings united in purpose and intent, not in being), and there are many gods.
 
Are you suggesting that most Christains ( okay apostate Christians :)) are NOT in opposition to Mormonism ???:confused::confused:. I can’t begin imagine that there is any truth in that statement.
I am sure most (if not all) “apostate Christians” are in oppositions to Mormonism; but they do not constitute the great majority of “non-Mormons”.
I am confident you have heard it all before. The real question is have you answered it all before???
Absolutely. Take a look at my Blog if you are not convinced. That is not all the answers I have given, but the most frequent ones.

zerinus
 
Joseph Smith had dedicated ground for the building of a temple in Jackson County, Missouri. That ground is what was “appointed by the finger of the Lord” and “dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jr.” Those events had already happened.

God wants His people to be a Zion people. He wants His people to build a New Jerusalem which is Zion. Whenever He has a covenant people, He enjoins them to build Zion. A temple is a part of Zion. Here are two scriptures about that:
• • •
The LDS were not righteous enough after Joseph Smith had dedicated the ground for the temple, to build it immediately, nor would the non-LDS people of Missouri cooperate or allow for such a building to be built. What you are thinking is a prophecy is actually an injunction by God for the LDS to build the temple they needed to build to have Zion, but since that group of LDS weren’t yet righteous enough, and the non-LDS people around them were belligerent about the whole idea of an LDS “New Jerusalem” being built anywhere in Missouri, the temple-building project was delayed and eventually was moved to Nauvoo, IL, where a temple was built and where temple ordinances were performed. The temple was built in “that generation.” Joseph Smith had already done his part by dedicating ground for a temple and by providing the injunction from God to build a temple. The Saints carried on and finished the temple-building project (in Nauvoo) after he was killed.

Zion is built up wherever there is a temple and a Zion people. So now there are over a hundred places for Zion to be built, and for the LDS saints to gather to Zion. Eventually, during the Millenium, a New Jerusalem will be a part of the Zion of North America.
Thanks for your response ParkerD. I’m sorry to tell you, that makes the fourth story I’ve heard, from as many Mormons.

Doesn’t this mean that the prophesy failed? Let me clarify my question, point by point, below.

The Bible tells us, Deuteronomy 18:20-22, how to distinguish a true prophet from a false one.

**Deu 18:20 But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain.

Deu 18:21 And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken?

Deu 18:22 Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.**

The Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints is quite clear.

D&C 84:1, tells us this is a revelation of Jesus Christ unto His servant Joseph Smith, and six elders.

D&C 84:2, tells us this is, the word of the Lord…as He has spoken by the mouth of His prophets.

Anything spoken by the mouth of a prophet, in the name of the Lord, is a prophesy. This contradicts an idea this was not a prophesy, but was instead an “injunction”.

D&C 84:3, tells us, that which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the Western boundaries of the STATE OF MISSOURI, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith.

The finger of the Lord appointed the Western boundaries of the state of Missouri. I’ve already mentioned that Joseph Smith cannot dedicate it if it were built, as he was fatally shot at Carthage jail.

Now, we know that Jesus cannot lie, and I don’t believe He could confuse Missouri for Illinois. In fact, that original plot of land, in Missouri, is still owned by the Church of Christ (Temple Lot). That Church has stated the other sects of Mormonism were in apostasy from the restored Gospel.

Surely, you wouldn’t want us to think Jesus could not accomplish what He had spoken through the mouth of one of His prophets?

D&C 84:4 and 5, tells us, which build shall be reared in that generation. 5 clarifies it more by saying, “For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord…”

That was over 160 years ago.
THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 84:1 - 5
1 A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
As I’ve said, yours is the fourth interpertation of this prophesy, that I’ve heard, from as many Mormons. It appears, many try very hard not to accept the fact, that one false prophesy, makes a false prophet, in my opinion.

This makes people look closely at other prophesies of Joseph Smith, and there’s a list of them that never came to pass…

I had to edit your quote to make this fit the character limits.
 
I appreciate and agree with you in large measure.🙂

I have seen examples, in other threads, as to your offering of " different interpretations " of Sacred Scripture.

Can I ask you a few questions from my OP ??
Yes.
Do you believe you can become a God of your own planet??
No.
Do you think Mormonism is polytheist??
No.
Are you taught/believe that our God was not always God but used to be a man of another planet??
No.
Are you taught/believe Jesus is the literal spirit brother of mere humans and Lucifer??
Yes.
Do you believe that Mary was a virgin at the conception of Christ and not at birth??
Yes.
Do you believe God is not the very creator of all for all times??
No.

zerinus
 
Latter Day Saints believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, believing that many “plain and precious things” have been lost.

I know KJV is the preferred translation for Mormons, but how much of it is translated incorrectly? Or is it correct? I’m confused about this, because Mormons tend to think that somehow the Bible has been translated incorrectly, yet they refuse to look at the older documents, in Greek, instead relying on KJV. This seems very odd to me.
Christine,
I think those are very good questions and good points. Here is the passage from the Book of Mormon you have quoted from:

1 Nephi 13: 29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
• • •
35 For, behold, saith the Lamb: I will manifest myself unto thy seed, that they shall write many things which I shall minister unto them, which shall be plain and precious; and after thy seed shall be destroyed, and dwindle in unbelief, and also the seed of thy brethren, behold, these things shall be hid up, to come forth unto the Gentiles, by the gift and power of the Lamb.
• • •
40 And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records, which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which are of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved.

I don’t think LDS would say the KJV was translated “incorrectly”. Verses or passages seem to have been left out, but who knows why since the whole process of compiling the Bible went through many hands. I think it is 99.9999% correct, and can be trusted as God’s word, especially if a person has the Holy Ghost with them to enlighten their understanding as they read it. (It is by no means exclusive to LDS to have the enlightenment of the Holy Ghost. But it does require sincerity and no hidden agenda.)

Reading the Bible in Greek would not necessarily correct the problem of there being “lost” verses, and can probably enhance the understanding of certain words, but I think the LDS are comfortable with using a version that has been accepted by general Christianity, and is written in elegant English. There are certainly LDS scholars who read Greek and have read Greek Bible sources to try and understand certain words better.
 
Hello again LDSGuy,

Can you tell me where in the original Christian Church ( I assume you mean the early Church of 2,000 years ago, right??) they taught or believed in the things that Joseph taught and believed???
Read your Bible; you will find it there.

zerinus
 
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