Are most 'Conservative' Christians completely irrational?

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That is quite odd for you to cite. I’m not sure what you think it proves. The subject of the Hadith in question is eschatological, the context of the Hadith is the followers of Dajjal (the False Messiah), who will primarily be Jews (Christians of all people should be aware that the Jews rejected Prophet Isa ibn Maryam as the Messiah, yet still await their Messiah, who they believe will not be Prophet Isa ibn Maryam). It does not prove that Muslims are in a perpetual war against Jews, or that Muslims are incited to commit genocide.
 
There you go - mentioning the Templars practiced Taqiyya, thereby justifying Muhammad approval of lying when under threat.

Can you really see what you are doing here? Do you not suppose any Christians who are interested enough to reply, will respond to your post?

Do you see the different between the Templars and Muhammad? Please.

One does not need any label to reply to such post, especially as this is public forum where any members can reply.

I leave this to you for you to figure out what I am saying. Hope by this post, people like me be spared being named of any kind.
 
Is lying ever permissible in Christianity?
Surely there are circumstances when lying may be a good thing?
 
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at the end of the day all muslims will follow their book or be counted as apostate,

They will follow, but they will interpret it differently, just like Christians will have different interpretations of the Bible. Some Bible interpretations have led to violence historically, the KKK being one example. There are even some instances of Christian-inspired violence today, but by and large we have grown out of it.

Muslim scriptures present a greater challenge, I admit. The passages that exhort violence are explicit. But research I have read indicates that Muslims who agree with violent jihad against Christians and Jews are a minority overall, and minorities in most countries, with some notable exceptions like Iran and Pakistan.

But painting all Muslims with the broad brush of “people we should hate” is un-Christian and as unfair as saying Timothy McVeigh represents all Christians or all Catholics. FWIW, he was raised Catholic and said to the end he followed Catholic “core beliefs.”

which islam does al-qaeda follow?

Al-Qaeda comes from the Sunni tradition, but the version of Islam they follow is their own.
 
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SalamKhan said:
I dislike arguing, because I believe it to be a sign of ignorance
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As a non-Roman Catholic on a Roman Catholic forum… I believe the opposite to be the case.

Interacting on this forum has eliminated some ignorance that I may have previously had… That is because before interacting on a forum such as this, most all of my theological questions, conversations, and debates happened with others who think very much like me. When most of my knowledge of Roman Catholicism comes from Protestant Christians, that can be a problem.

I find that there are many ignorant Protestant Christians when it comes to what Roman Catholics believe… And I have seen on this forum that there are many ignorant Roman Catholic Christians when it comes to what conservative Protestants believe. By interacting, debating charitably, and asking questions we can eliminate much of that ignorance. We may not wind up in agreement, but we can wind up being more respectful.
 
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I agree, inshallah we can all learn from each other and grow to be better person I think.
 
SalamKhan said:
The subject of the Hadith in question is eschatological,
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you don’t believe in the Islamic end time events?

is the verse false?

will the last hour come if the Muslim doesn’t fight the Jew?

are there not Muslims today trying to bring about the end times?

peace is not on the horizon for these groups. will the Muslim stop after fighting the Jew?

can a Muslim ignore the commands of the Koran and Hadith? what is the fate of a Muslim who doesn’t follow the Koran?
 
Here are some of the Quran and Hadith verses about lying in Islam. Probably they are not what they seem to be but you can read and think for yourself what they would mean.

Quran 16: 106;
"Whoever denies" Allah “after accepting his faith and who opens his chest for disbelief’s doubts, has invoked the wrath (anger) from Allah, and will get a cruel punishment” .The only thing that is excused [from doing this] are those who are denied their faith under duress. "

Hadith, Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:
The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

Quran 9:3;
"…Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters…"

Sahih Bukhari 49:857;
"He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."

Quran 2:225;
"Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts".
 
SalamKhan said:
Of course, there is no point for a Muslim in explaining what ‘Taqiyya’ actually is, because these ‘conservative’ Christians already have it in their minds that the Muslims will be lying to them.
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Well therin lies (no pun intended) the problem with sanctioning any lying for any reason.

Now, how do you understand taqiyya, as a Muslim?
 
jfz178 said:
They will follow, but they will interpret it differently,
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Muslims kill other Muslims because of these differences; why deny this?
jfz178 said:
Christians will have different interpretations of the Bible.
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where does the bible or any tradition mandate the killing of an apostate?
jfz178 said:
But painting all Muslims with the broad brush of “people we should hate”
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i re-post
upant said:
i don’t think this is proper terminology. the Koran and hadith make it quite clear what the intentions of the prophet were and is.
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upant said:
you may not believe their teachings but they do and some of us do.

believing in what has been taught for centuries and defending against it isn’t hate; it is common sense
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jfz178 said:
the version of Islam they follow is their own.
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there is only one Koran and it is accepted by all. their difference is who was the rightful heir of the prophet. Islamic scholars uphold their teachings.
 
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When my sister became a Christian, Muslims actually threatened her for leaving Islam. I’m fine with the vast majority of Muslims, but I find Islam to be ahistorical. You know, the fact that people were actually threatening my sister, for deciding to choose her religion, in a country she has the freedom to do so, has kind of soured my opinion on Islam a bit. My sister used to live in are predominantly Muslim country. We are on there American, but my sister has lived in Bahrain, they actually don’t care that much there though.
 
It wouldn’t matter if you were discussion religion or cooking, if someone thinks you’re a liar then they’ve made a judgement about you that it’s unlikely they’re going to change, even if you argue until you go blue in the face. That’s true in life AND on the internet.

I don’t think many people are truly irrational, unless they are ill. I think they just don’t want to hear what you have to say, or they can’t hear it because it challenges them or pushes their buttons, so they just slap the “liar” label on you and pretend you don’t exist.

Just ignore them. Seriously, there are plenty of Christians out there who are very happy to discuss with you.

Sadly the internet is full of trolls (and sometimes idiots too LOL 🙂 )
 
@SalamKhan, could you answer my question, I’m quite curious.

How do you understand taqiyya? Could you explain it?
 
I’ve already mentioned this:
SalamKhan said:
To keep it short, Taqiyya is dissimulation when one is under threat. When one of the companions of the Prophet (S) was tortured by the disbelievers with fire, he ended up insulting Allah and the Prophet (S), was subsequently freed, and then went to the Prophet (S) and lamented. It was then revealed to the Prophet (S) that if one is forced to commit disbelief, it does not count as disbelief (Surah 16:106).
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I think Quran 16:106 would cover that - "those who are denied their faith under duress, " would be excused and therefore not get a cruel punishment as those who, after accepting his faith and who opens his chest for disbelief’s doubts, has invoked the wrath (anger) from Allah

Quran 16: 106;
“Whoever denies” Allah “after accepting his faith and who opens his chest for disbelief’s doubts, has invoked the wrath (anger) from Allah, and will get a cruel punishment” .The only thing that is excused [from doing this] are those who are denied their faith under duress. "
 
I don’t know how or when, but there has been a slow degradation of the quality of conversation here on these forums. I’ve been around since 2004 and I remember it being a very pleasant place then. Maybe the atmosphere is just charged right now… No doubt it is. But there is a very strong current of hostility these days. I don’t know if it has anything to do with the background of posters, or just the modern times.
 
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