Are most marriages invalid?

[tws]

Friends of mine are seeking annulments of prior marriages. The person with whom they are working told them that most of the time, annulments are granted. This seems weird to me. It implies most marriages are invalid according to the catholic church. Is this correct?

 

[robwar]

one should never go by what people think they heard about annulments through the grape line. They are done case by case. The best was to be informed is to go to the tribunal and get read facts not what someone thinks.

 

[Xantippe]

Friends of mine are seeking annulments of prior marriages. The person with whom they are working told them that most of the time, annulments are granted. This seems weird to me. It implies most marriages are invalid according to the catholic church. Is this correct?

No, it implies that most marriages where people seek annulments are invalid.

Example:

Let’s say I check the date on some milk in the fridge, see it’s expired, sniff the milk, decide it’s sour, and then toss it out. And let’s say that when I do that check, I almost always toss out the milk. Does that mean that most milk is sour? No, the reason I sniffed the milk at all was that I was already suspicious that it had gone bad.

 

[Sandraaustin]

No, it doesn’t mean most marriages are invalid, it means failed marriages for which an annulment is requested are usually granted, because something was wrong BEFORE the marriage took place.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Look at the statistics. American Catholics account for about 5% of Catholics worldwide, yet more than half of all decrees of nullity are given to U.S. couples. Not by the Vatican but by local tribunals. Either American couples are profoundly different from other couples in the rest of the world, or else there is a problem with the tribunal system in the U.S., at least in practice.

 

[MJJean]

Look at the statistics.** American Catholics account for about 5% of Catholics worldwide, **yet more than half of all decrees of nullity are given to U.S. couples. Not by the Vatican but by local tribunals. Either American couples are profoundly different from other couples in the rest of the world, or else there is a problem with the tribunal system in the U.S., at least in practice.

It’s not only catholics applying for and receiving annulments. It’s also those of another faith or no faith who have married or who wish to marry catholics as well as converts who are applying for annulments.

Not to mention one person can be responsible for any number of annulments. An example would be a lady we’ll call Emily who wishes to join the Church, but she cannot. Emily has been married 4 times and her current husband has been married 2 times. Until they regularize their marriage situation, Emily cannot complete the Sacraments of Initiation. She applies to have her first 3 marriages annulled and her husband applies to have his previous marriage annulled. Those two people would account for 4 annulments…and neither is even catholic yet.

 

[powerofk]

IIRC, Americans are also much more likely to apply for decrees of nullity than people from other countries. Why? Because Catholics in other countries are either much less religious than Catholics in the US (see Europe) or because divorces themselves are much harder to come by (most third-world countries).

The prevailing culture in the US of easy divorce also plays a part. One of the requirements of a valid marriage is that both people in the couple understand that marriage is intended to be a life-long committment, open to children, that each person has to intend for him/herself. With our prevailing culture, these requirements are quite often not fully understood.

 

[Tomdstone]

Look at the statistics.

Good idea.
1930 - about 10 annulments granted in the USA.
present day post Vatican II: - As high as 60,000 annulments granted per year in the USA.
I thought that Catholic teaching could not change.

 

[powerofk]

Good idea.
1930 - about 10 annulments granted in the USA.
present day post Vatican II: - As high as 60,000 annulments granted per year in the USA.
I thought that Catholic teaching could not change.

Catholic teaching doesn’t change, but the culture surrounding the Catholics can and does change. It’s a coincidence that Vatican II and rapid culture changes occured at around the same time. Yet these culture changes were not because of Vatican II - they would have happened regardless. Is it the Church’s fault that the “Pill” came out a few years before Vatican II? No. And neither is it the Church’s fault that no-fault divorce was also instituted around that time. As such, the culture that today’s Americans live in doesn’t see marriage as a lifetime bond. So, many enter marriage not understanding that marriage is supposed to be for life. This can be considered grounds for an annulment being granted.

 

[Xantippe]

Good idea.
1930 - about 10 annulments granted in the USA.
present day post Vatican II: - As high as 60,000 annulments granted per year in the USA.
I thought that Catholic teaching could not change.

Presumably, that means that a lot of people who legitimately deserved annulments did not get them in 1930. Consider, for instance, how many people there are with very serious mental illnesses and very serious pre-existing substance abuse problems, and consider whether or not 10 annulments a year would cover even a fraction of those cases.

 

[1ke]

Good idea.
1930 - about 10 annulments granted in the USA.
present day post Vatican II: - As high as 60,000 annulments granted per year in the USA.
I thought that Catholic teaching could not change.

How does the number of decrees of nullity equate to a change in Catholic teaching?

 

[Tomdstone]

How does the number of decrees of nullity equate to a change in Catholic teaching?

Because if you compare the statistics on divorces granted in the USA during the same time period, you do not see such an explosive growth.

 

[1ke]

Because if you compare the statistics on divorces granted in the USA during the same time period, you do not see such an explosive growth.

Which still has exactly zero to do with doctrine.

 

[Tomdstone]

Which still has exactly zero to do with doctrine.

The Catholic teaching on reasons for granting an annulment has changed essentially.

 

[pianistclare]

nope.
However. more and more people get married outside of the church though.
Like at the beach…

Many people ignore the teaching about marrying in the church, and then one day decide to make it right.
The US is more secular on marriage matters that many other countries.

 

[Perian]

No, it implies that most marriages where people seek annulments are invalid.

Example:

Let’s say I check the date on some milk in the fridge, see it’s expired, sniff the milk, decide it’s sour, and then toss it out. And let’s say that when I do that check, I almost always toss out the milk. Does that mean that most milk is sour? No, the reason I sniffed the milk at all was that I was already suspicious that it had gone bad.

Genius analogy. Will remember in the event of a real-life discussion on this matter. Or any logic issue following this formula…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Friends of mine are seeking annulments of prior marriages. The person with whom they are working told them that most of the time, annulments are granted. This seems weird to me. It implies most marriages are invalid according to the catholic church. Is this correct?

From the Wiki article.

Over the past 30 years about 55 to 70% of annulments have occurred in the United States.

We are such a small percentage of Catholics worldwide, taking up the largest share of annulments. About 72 million Catholics in the US. 1.2 billion worldwide. SO if we are taking up 55-70 percent of the annulments there is something out of whack for sure.

 

[Perian]

I can’t speak for every diocese, but the problem definitely isn’t just our culture of divorce. It’s also the way in which we get married. How often do priests witness weddings they don’t think will make it? Have you ever heard of a priest who flatly denied a request to do a wedding? And how many couples lie about their lifestyle or intentions in premarital counseling?

I have no trouble believing that number, or that they were validly granted. The people getting annulments right now spent their formative years in tumultuous, confused, or nonexistent catechesis, especially in areas of sexuality and marriage. I’m very interested to see which way the number goes when young adults and priests of the “JPII” generation are old enough to influence the statistics.

 

[Tomdstone]

From the Wiki article.
We are such a small percentage of Catholics worldwide, taking up the largest share of annulments. About 72 million Catholics in the US. 1.2 billion worldwide. SO if we are taking up 55-70 percent of the annulments there is something out of whack for sure.

Of course you are right.
If the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Christ, then how come after Vatican II, the catechesis has become tumultuous, confused, or nonexistent in the Catholic Church, but not so in all the other Churches which have not experienced such a drastic increase in marriage breakups as the American Catholic Church?

 

[Xantippe]

Of course you are right.
If the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Christ, then how come after Vatican II, the catechesis has become tumultuous, confused, or nonexistent in the Catholic Church, but not so in all the other Churches which have not experienced such a drastic increase in marriage breakups as the American Catholic Church?

Wait–you do realize, don’t you, that US Catholics have a lower divorce rate than most other American Christians?

“Catholics stand out, with only 28% of the ever-married having divorced at some point,” compared to more than 40% of those with no religious affiliation, 39% of Protestants and 35% of those of another religious faith.
Furthermore, Catholics who marry other Catholics are also less likely to divorce than Catholics married to people of other faiths.
A 2007 survey from the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate estimates that only 27% of Catholics married to other Catholics have ever experienced divorce, compared to nearly half of Catholics married to Protestants or to spouses with no religious belief."

ncregister.com/daily-news/catholics-continue-to-have-lowest-divorce-rates/

Also, being a conservative Evangelical Protestant or living in an area with many of them is a risk factor for divorce:

"Are you a religiously conservative Protestant or someone who lives in area populated by many of them? According to American researchers, you are at higher risk of divorce.

"Defining “conservative Protestants” as those who believe the Bible to be literally true, researchers Jennifer Glass (University of Texas) and Philip Levchak (University of Iowa) found that while “most conservatives frown upon divorce, and religious commitment is believed to strengthen marriage,” the states with higher concentrations of such people experienced higher divorce rates.

"“[O]ne of the strongest factors predicting divorce rates (per 1000 married couples) is the concentration of conservative or evangelical Protestants in that county,” the researchers explain. Religiously conservative states Alabama and Arkansas have the second and third highest divorce rates in the U.S., while religiously liberal New Jersey and Massachusetts have two of the lowest. Full graph below shows the regional correlation:

"Describing their findings as a “puzzling paradox,” the researchers explained that the higher divorce rate among religious conservatives is tied to early marriage and early childbearing — factors already known to contribute to strained marriages and divorce. “Starting families earlier tends to stop young adults from pursuing more education and depresses their wages, putting more strain on marriages,” Glass stated.

“The study, slated for publishing in February 2014′s American Journal of Sociology, also discovered that even if you are not a conservative Protestant, you are at higher risk of divorce just by living in an area heavily populated by them.”

mediaite.com/online/puzzling-paradox-study-finds-higher-divorce-rate-among-conservative-protestants/