Are most people going to Hell?

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Mickey:
Not aware of that one. Where did you hear this? Sounds like neo-universalism.
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I have a feeling that it was Julian of Norwich? Maybe somebody can give us the correct information.

Neo-universalism? The Orthodox are awfully reluctant to pre-empt the mysterious judgements of the Almighty. We just cannot issue dogmatic statements on the fate of either the human race or the angelic race - this is enfolded within the unsearchable decisions of God.

“The Church knows that evil is neither co-eternal with God nor equal to Him. That the devil rebelled against God and even became the king and ruler of hell does not mean that his kingdom will last for ever. On the contrary, Christian eschatology, as we shall see later, is profoundly optimistic and strongly holds faith in the final victory of good over evil, God over the devil, Christ over the Antichrist. Yet, what this victory will entail and what the final outcome of the existence of evil will be still remains unclear in Christian teaching. Pondering on this, the human mind once more falls silent in the presence of the mystery, powerless to delve into the depths of Divine destinies. As God says in the book of Isaiah, ‘My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways’ (Is.55:8-9 in Septuagint translation).”

Source: An Online Orthodox Catechism:
orthodoxeurope.org/page/10/1.aspx#15

It is undeniable that Orthodoxy even while doctrinally rejecting
apocatastasis (the salvation of all) always leans towards it.
 
I take some comfort from the fact that the criminal on the cross recieved ready acceptance into paradise. He was a criminal, as we are told and must have been a serious one by his own admittance and punishment. Just the type that Jesus came to save.

42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
 
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kindlylight:
I take some comfort from the fact that the criminal on the cross recieved ready acceptance into paradise. He was a criminal, as we are told and must have been a serious one by his own admittance and punishment. Just the type that Jesus came to save.
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And Judas too. The great 4th century Saint and preacher and bible commentator, John Chrysostom, was of the opinion that the reason Judas went out and hung himself was so that he could meet the Lord after death and beg his forgiveness… it’s a wonderfully generous thought of this Saint and I believe he may be right.

Ballad of the Judas Tree (Ruth Etchells)

In Hell there grew a Judas Tree
where Judas hanged and died
Because he could not bear to see
His master crucified.

Our Lord descended into Hell
and found his Judas there
For ever hanging on the tree
Grown from his own despair

So Jesus cut his Judas down
And took him in his arms
‘It was for this I came’ he said
'And not to do you harm.

My Father gave me twelve good men
And all of them I kept
Though one betrayed and one denied
Some fled and others slept.

In three days’ time I must return
To make the others glad
But first I had to come to Hell
And share the death you had.

My tree will grow in place of yours
Its roots lie here as well
there is no final victory
Without this soul from Hell’

So when we all condemn him
As of every traitor worst
Remember that of all his men
Our Lord forgave him first.
 
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Asking:
But wouldnt Judas have gone to Hell for commiting suicide?
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Not necessarily. The Orthodox Church is very very reluctant to bury a suicide with a Christian burial but it does happen. I know of two in my city. A young immigrant girl who was sucked into the Goths and jumped off a building. An old man who hung himself after suffering years of awful pain from brain cancer…

Do Catholic clergy officiate at the funerals of suicides? I know that it used to be forbidden but has it changed?
 
I dont know, I dont really know much, most of the time I just make questions.
This may sound weird but I somehow felt bad for Judas commiting suicide, because he may have repented and be saved, he was feeling regret obviously.
I think that when a Pope excommunicates someone he condemns him to hell with Judas and the Demons.
It is an official formula, something like that.
 
I tried to google it and couldnt find it I may be wrong.

It may be an anathema…
 
Today I went to the website shepherdserve.org/special_reports/daniel1.htm

It’s an interesting detailed report about a Nigerian pastor who had died in a car accident and who came back to life. The day before the accident he had an serious argument with his wife. During this argument his wife slapped him. He felt insulted and because of that he could not forgive her even though she begged him to forgive her for that incident.

The pastor, the day after the argument, and on the day his wife again begged him for forgiveness, had an automobile accident and died.

He was dead for at least 42 hours. The pastor tells how he was shown Hell, but also Heaven. The Angel who accompanied him during this time showed the pastor that because he had refused to forgive his wife and also because of the angry words he used he actually deserved Hell, but God sent him back to earth.

As far as I can discern there’s is in this story nothing against what the Catholic Church teaches. The writer even admonishes readers of false teachers and not to listen to them “who say that holiness is not essential to ultimately gain eternal life.” Also, “not to listen to teachers who say that if you are once saved you are guaranteed that you will always be saved.”
 
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Hermione:
It’s hard to believe that a loving God would create a Hell.
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Hell, unfortunately, is a necessary side-effect of free will. We are free, in dying, to choose our own will over God’s, to not recognize him as He Who IS, the end (telos) of our existence. If he were to accept such souls into his Beatific Vision, it would be as though he was forcing us to love him. Thus there must be a state for souls that are separated from God. We call it Hell.
 
I think the Church considers one who commits suicide as not in a proper state of mind when the act is committed; temporary insanity, if you will. And so I believe that the Catholic clergy will officiate at the funeral service.
 
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Frankie:
Originally Posted by UKcatholicGuy
*I think Hermione and others are missing an essential point in this discussion, a point which I made earlier: we are not in this life alone!

Hermione, you say it seems near impossible to be saved and live a “good” life and obey all Jesus’ commandments. You know what? You’re right! It’s absolutely impossible to live up to God’s standards when we try to ourselves.

That’s why God, through Jesus Christ, gives us grace to enable us to live Christian lives. Grace is amazing (to quote the old spiritual)! Grace literally enables us to do things we could never do on our own, like forgive someone who really hurt you, or like saying no to sexual desires, no to birth control, and yes to church.

You’re living in fear because you’re trying to do it alone! Stop! Accept God’s grace through Jesus Christ and take a deep breath. Put your trust in His ability to bring you through. Go to confession and receive the Eucharist as often as you can. Through the sacraments, Jesus will give you the strength to resist sin and temptation.

Truly, we can “do all things through Christ, who gives [us] the strength.”

And I stress again, please pray! You cannot get anywhere without prayer. I promise you that. Please please pray!

God bless, Hermione. You’re in my prayers! Don’t give up the fight! The reward is worth it!*
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Even in martyrdom?

Let’s also not forget saying no to violence, fortune, fame, riches, complacency, material stuff, money, pride, greed and revenge.
 
Fr Ambrose:
And Judas too. The great 4th century Saint and preacher and bible commentator, John Chrysostom, was of the opinion that the reason Judas went out and hung himself was so that he could meet the Lord after death and beg his forgiveness… it’s a wonderfully generous thought of this Saint and I believe he may be right.

Ballad of the Judas Tree (Ruth Etchells)

In Hell there grew a Judas Tree
where Judas hanged and died
Because he could not bear to see
His master crucified.

Our Lord descended into Hell
and found his Judas there
For ever hanging on the tree
Grown from his own despair

So Jesus cut his Judas down
And took him in his arms
‘It was for this I came’ he said
'And not to do you harm.

My Father gave me twelve good men
And all of them I kept
Though one betrayed and one denied
Some fled and others slept.

In three days’ time I must return
To make the others glad
But first I had to come to Hell
And share the death you had.

My tree will grow in place of yours
Its roots lie here as well
there is no final victory
Without this soul from Hell’

So when we all condemn him
As of every traitor worst
Remember that of all his men
Our Lord forgave him first.
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Thanks Father for a really great post. Good old Chrysostom, and what a great ballad…well worth learning off by heart.
 
One would assume by what is going on in the world today that many souls are going into hell. I am reminded of what Our Lady of Fatima said that, “More soulds go to hell because of sins of the flesh than any other reason.” So it would seem those who are unrepentant, and unrepentant is the important word, that many will go to hell because this is what they choose. The church applies the canonical penalty of excommunication when others begin to harm or scandalize the faith, and who do not recant their errors after the church has tried to correct them. Although excommunication makes it all the harder for salvation, a person can still be forgiven.
 
Let us not lose sight that Jesus died on the cross to reconcile humanity with divinity (himself). If the majority of people go to hell, then, it almost makes Jesus’ sacrifice a failure! Everyone is a sinner, therefore, everyone should go to hell. Jesus died to change that! A true Christian, though a sinner, always repents of his sins. If he keeps on sinning and repenting is because he is weak, and Jesus knows that. If He asks us to forgive others seventy-times seven, surely, he will do the same with us provided that we sincerely repent! Eternal salvation is by God’s grace alone. The only thing we can do is to repent of our sins and to propose to do it no more! How many are going to hell? Let God decide that, for judgement is His!
 
Hermione said:
As I understand it, most people are going to Hell. Jesus Himself says so in the Bible when he says that the road to hell is wide, and the gate to Heaven is narrow and few enter it or something like that.

So is it true that most people are going to Hell?

Thanks! 🙂
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I didn’t read the entire thread, so please forgive me if this has already been said by someone else. If you look at the parallel passage in Luke 13:22-30, it seems the people Jesus is speaking of are those in unbelieving Israel of the first century. So the “few are saved” dictum does not necessarily apply to everyone at all times; He is speaking to those who did not accept Him when He first came.

In fact, look at verse 29. There are some good scriptural passages which suggest that perhaps the majority of humans who have lived will eventually go to Heaven. I am not praying just to hold out until the end, hoping to make it into Heaven; I am actually praying that the entire world will become Christian.
 
A true Christian knows that everyone is going to Heaven, except himself.
 
Anyone who reject Jesus Christ and His Church, will not go to heaven. They will go to eternal fire of hell.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states the following:

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he “will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,” and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”

So is you are unrepentent sinner you will go to hell. If you go in the streets and the clubs every man wants to have sex with women. Most of these men are single and desire to fornicate with women. If society openly embrace this lifestyle then the majority of the people of this world will go to hell.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Anyone who reject Jesus Christ and His Church, will not go to heaven. They will go to eternal fire of hell.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states the following:

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he “will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,” and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”

So is you are unrepentent sinner you will go to hell. If you go in the streets and the clubs every man wants to have sex with women. Most of these men are single and desire to fornicate with women. If society openly embrace this lifestyle then the majority of the people of this world will go to hell.
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So, what do you say about the visions of St. Faustina? She says that Jesus revealed to her that He will call upon souls at the moment of death, even up to three times. Then if they do not turn to Him, they are lost. However, if they turn to Him and accept His mercy, they will be saved.
 
Heaven is the Mercy of God.
Purgatory is the Mercy of God.
Even Hell is the Mercy of God.

How?

Heaven would be more painful to an unrepentent sinner than Hell. To be forced to look upon the Beatific Vision for all eternity if that is the one thing you do not want would be immensely more painful than the absense of the Beatific Vision.
God says to us “Thy Will Be Done.”
Hopefully, by the end of our lives, our will will be aligned with His Will so that we can respond with 'I choose You, my God."

God is Mercy.
 
This is something a lot of the Fathers meditated on, especially St Augustine. Augustine knew from his own struggles from sin and also from his acutely accurate psychological analysis of human emotions and drives, the majority of humanity at least some of the time choose what is wrong over what is right. This posed a strong theological problem then in that it seemed no human being could stand up to God’s standards of righteousness. Augustine developed the ideas of original sin and predestination to try and explain how some humans are ordered to salvation from their birth, while others are destined for damnation. Augustine believed because of original sin all humanity is ‘massa damnata’ and only a few will be saved. His ideas were stated in a more extreme form by John Calvin who believed predestination is deterministic and once saved, a Christian will never be lost, but the person who is destined to be lost will always be lost. Calvin called this God’s ‘terrible decree.’

At the other extreme is the notion of a universal restoration. People go to hell, but hell is more like a super-purgatory where sins in this life are expiated by the punishments there. This theory was adopted by Origen and also some Eastern fathers, including St Gregory of Nyssa.

I think since Vatican II the emphasis of the Church has been more on God’s mercy than the gloomy debates over predestination and damnation which were popular in the Reformation and the centuries afterward, in movements such as the Jansenists and Molinists. Hell is still affirmed as real but seen as more of an existential possibility for each individual to accept or reject God’s love offered through Christ. In a way I have found every ‘mortal’ sin is really a sin in some way or another against this love, and I am comfortable with this understanding of hell.

If you would ask me for a theological opinion, I don’t believe God would damn any member of the human race without offering each the opportunity at some point for salvation, but at the same time human evil is a reality which is very real and can never be ignored. Sometimes I hope people like Stalin and Hitler are in hell, as are those who sexually abuse children or engage in genocide. But, ultimately it is up to God, not us, to judge.
 
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