Are Muslim women(majority) go to hell because of their dress?

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selvaraj

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As far as my knowledge goes, bulletin boards in universities are usually put up for academic purposes. Timetables, grades, notices and scholastic contests are all examples of what one would expect to usually find hung up by the ever so concerned faculty. However, in King Saud University, this is what you would expect to find.
static.flickr.com/31/56314668_fa4c2f4d98.jpg

Choose for yourself, it says, with two opposing images of what appears to be the artists’ perception of hellfire and paradise (where the women oddly seem to be clad in head-to-toe black. . yikes!) and signs in between pointing to both sides. Below that there are pictures of women, both looking pretty decent to the naked observant eye. But, beware, for the woman on the left is, and allow me to quote “Dolled up” whereas under the one on the right, accompanied by a swoosh of approval by the way, it says “The Muslim woman’s hijab.”
As I’ve worriedly declared just above, yikes! (guess the mighty infidels’ circle keeps getting wider and wider aye?) Gotta love them KSU do-gooders!
farahssowaleef.blogspot.com/2005_10_01_farahssowaleef_archive.html#113034831195681608

In Christ,
selvaraj
 
The one on the left is carrying a purse and her eyes are visible. Does that make a big difference?
 
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JimG:
The one on the left is carrying a purse and her eyes are visible. Does that make a big difference?
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Yes,
The one on the right is not carrying a handbag or purse. Thus, while she may look in the shops, she does not actually buy anything. Likewise, she is not able to carry a phone, and so does not gossip or chat with friends. Obviously, she does not carry cosmetics.
Poor girls.

In Christ,
selvaraj
 
The difference that stands out to me is the stance of the two women. One has her rear and chest sticking out, and the other doesn’t.

I can’t read the sign, but perhaps it distinguishes that attitude is what matters? In Catholic terms, one can go to mass to see and be seen, or one can go to worship.
 
actually, the message in the middle between the two pictures is a list of the conditions for what constitutes proper hijab according to the opinion held by many of the saudi scholars, the first point being that the face and two hands should be covered - this point is debated over by many scholars from ahl as-sunnah.
 
actually, if you were able to read arabic, you’d notice the first two conditions listed are:
  • covering all of the body including the face and the two hands (according to the most correct of the two opinions of the people of knowledge)
  • that it be wide and not tight, such that the woman’s body is indescribable.
as i mentioned in my post, most saudi scholars hold the opinion that covering the face and hands is obligatory - this means her eyes must be covered too. in the picture on the left, the woman’s eyes are showing, as are her hands. also, her clothing is tight enough that you can see the shape of her behind and the shape of her breasts.

one of the other conditions for proper hijab is that the clothing not have any adornments and things to beautify it which would draw the attention of non-related men. having a hand bag that contrasts the clothing in the manner shown in the drawing draws attention to her according to what some say… so that is also a violation of the conditions listed.
 
So in other words, women have to look like a sack of potatoes covered by a sheet in order to be modestly dressed! LOL! How in the heck can they even see if their eyes are covered! Very nice!:rolleyes:

All I can say is that there must be some very sick men out there, if they’re turned on by seeing a woman’s hands or her uncovered head!
 
If complete body covering is necessary to assist women from drawing unwanted attention from males, what do the men do to assist them from drawing unwanted attention from females? This condition seems to suggest women are not tempted at all, or very little, and men can barely control their own lust.

George
 
i don’t know about all these instructions mentioned, but they are not from the Qur’an or the Sunna.

The Prophet pbuh made clear many points about the muslim dress, and i don’t see them in the sign above, infact what i see is the opposite.

The Prophet pbuh instructed the muslims both men and women not to wear black specially when performing the daily prayers. And the women not to cover their faces and hands specially in the pilgrimage. If you look at the millions of muslims who perform hajj each year, they wear white dress, and the women don’t cover their faces or their hands. Men and Women perform Hajj at the same time, together.

Now to the Qur’an, this is what it says:

“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (ie their bodies) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband’s fathers, their sons, their husband’s sons, their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (ie their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment And all of you repent to Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful” (Qur’an 24:31)

Also there is another verse which commands the Prophet to instruct the believing women on their dresses:

“O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the women of the believers to draw upon them their over-garments. That is more appropriate so that they be recognised and not molested” (Qur’an 33:59)

In this verse Allah (swt) explains that the garments of rightousness is better than anything:

“O Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc) and as an adornment, and the raiment of righteousness, that is better Such are among the Ayât (signs) of Allâh, that they may remember (ie leave falsehood and follow truth)” (Qur’an 7:26)

Peace
 
I did not intend for my previous post on this thread to be uncharitable. I referred to men in general in the hopes that my post would not be construed as an attack on Muslim males. If I have failed in my attempt and offended anyone, my sincerest apologies.

I am struggling with the idea that women should shoulder the majority of the responsibility for unwanted attention. It seems that men should take an equal role and should respect women and control themselves. As has been pointed out in a previous thread, Islam holds Mary in greater regard than many other Christian denominations and it would seem this would carry over to all women.

Edris, is the dress for women as seen in this thread more of a cultural issue and not so much a religious observation?

George
 
assalaamu 'alaikum brother edris.
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Edris:
i don’t know about all these instructions mentioned, but they are not from the Qur’an or the Sunna.
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although i do not hold the same opinion as the one on which this poster was based, i do have to say that some of the conditions listed in the poster do have their basis in the Quran and the sunnah. i would advise you to be careful of speaking without knowledge as well, for your statement basically says that the people of knowledge (those who Allah commands us to ask if we don’t know) came up with these conditions off the tops of their heads, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

one book you should read, if you are able to read arabic is jilbab al-mar’ah al-muslimah by ash-shaikh muhammad naasir ad-deen al-albaanee.
 
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Booklover:
So in other words, women have to look like a sack of potatoes covered by a sheet in order to be modestly dressed! LOL! How in the heck can they even see if their eyes are covered! Very nice!:rolleyes:

All I can say is that there must be some very sick men out there, if they’re turned on by seeing a woman’s hands or her uncovered head!
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Saudi women at factory work.
saudigazette.com.sa/sgazette/Data/2005/10/19/Art_274642.XML
http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/sgazette/Data/2005/10/19/Media_274614.JPG
 
That was an interesting article.

SAUDI WOMEN TAKE UP FACTORY JOBS

Not being able to find jobs suitable to their university degrees, more and more Saudi women are turning to women-run factories to make a living or kill boredom.

It’s too bad there aren’t more jobs available to them more in line with their education.
 
George Waters:
I am struggling with the idea that women should shoulder the majority of the responsibility for unwanted attention. It seems that men should take an equal role and should respect women and control themselves.
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Yes, this is challenge to modern Western values. But please remember that until fairly recently in the United States, any woman who was raped might have to defend herself against accusations that she brought on the rape by dressing too provocatively.
 
Guar Fan:
Yes, this is challenge to modern Western values. But please remember that until fairly recently in the United States, any woman who was raped might have to defend herself against accusations that she brought on the rape by dressing too provocatively.
Click to expand...
This may be true, but the issue of this thread is not how women dress in the United States, nor does it answer the question; what condition must the men meet and/or what are the men doing to avoid drawing unwanted attention to them? I also would like to know if this is a religious condition or a cultural condition as there seems to be a bit of disagreement on that as well.

If this form of dress is a condition for women to avoid unwanted attention then you would assume the men must have some sort of condition as well. If not it would seem to indicate either a far greater degree of control or the part of women or a diminished social status for women.

George
 
George Waters:
If this form of dress is a condition for women to avoid unwanted attention then you would assume the men must have some sort of condition as well. If not it would seem to indicate either a far greater degree of control or the part of women or a diminished social status for women.
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Not necessarily. I made the comparison to the United States because the aspect of female sexuality/body seems to have been (until fairly recently) somewhat similar. Women were judged according to the clothing that they wore. (She dresses like a hooker!) And if people thought it too revealing of the female body, then people were inclined to dismiss any male rudeness or violence that came her way.

Women in the U.S., until recently, bore the burden of restraining male sexuality. Guys were just assumed to exploit any opportunity for sex, so women had best cover up and stay in groups. American culture, in that respect, seemed to share this trait with Saudi culture.

Of course, that has changed a great deal in the past 30 or 40 years. American culture has changed in ways that Saudi culture has not. You mentioned that you were having trouble accepting “that women should shoulder the majority of the responsibility for unwanted attention.” I am just pointing out that this was the standard for American culture up through the 1950s (and has slowly decayed since) and might be understandable in that context.
 
The big difference here is that in the United States if a women dresses in a reviling or inappropriate fashion people may be inclined to dismiss any male rudeness or violence that came her way. In seems that in some cultures if women do not dress in a certain way they will be the targets of rudeness and violence. The tragic fire at the girl’s school in Saudi Arabia a few years ago where the girls were not allowed to exit a burning building, as they were not appropriately dressed is a case in point. I guess preventing men from showing unwanted attention on to these girls was more important than their lives. I am still waiting to hear if men have any conditions they are obligated to follow or if the women must accept all the responsibility.

George
 
George Waters:
In seems that in some cultures if women do not dress in a certain way they will be the targets of rudeness and violence. The tragic fire at the girl’s school in Saudi Arabia a few years ago where the girls were not allowed to exit a burning building, as they were not appropriately dressed is a case in point. I guess preventing men from showing unwanted attention on to these girls was more important than their lives. I am still waiting to hear if men have any conditions they are obligated to follow or if the women must accept all the responsibility.

George
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According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom’s strict interpretation of Islam.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

In Christ,
selvaraj
 
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