Are Muslims allowed to eat kosher meat (which is halal) if slaughtered by a Jew?

[meltzerboy]

To my Muslim friends: what are the restrictions, if any, pertaining to Muslims’ eating kosher meat? Does the Jew have to be observant? Does a Jewish blessing make the meat haram? To my (Orthodox) Jewish friends: what about the reverse? If halal meat is kosher, can a Jew eat it if a Muslim blesses it in the name of Allah?

 

[ciero]

To my Muslim friends: what are the restrictions, if any, pertaining to Muslims’ eating kosher meat? Does the Jew have to be observant? Does a Jewish blessing make the meat haram? To my (Orthodox) Jewish friends: what about the reverse? If halal meat is kosher, can a Jew eat it if a Muslim blesses it in the name of Allah?

Muslims can and do eat Kosher meat. Jews may NOT eat halal meat.

 

[Bezant]

To my Muslim friends: what are the restrictions, if any, pertaining to Muslims’ eating kosher meat? Does the Jew have to be observant? Does a Jewish blessing make the meat haram? To my (Orthodox) Jewish friends: what about the reverse? If halal meat is kosher, can a Jew eat it if a Muslim blesses it in the name of Allah?

I’ve heard from the majority of Muslims I’ve asked, “Yes,” but no agreement on the proper circumstances. For some, kosher meat is permissible at any time. For others, it’s only permissible when there is no halal meat. I don’t suppose for Muslims the Jewish butcher has to be observant.

Halal meat is not kosher by Orthodox standards. Kosher slaughter has to be carried out by an observant Jew, but practically-speaking today, kosher butchers are in a highly specialised profession–not just anyone can do it.

There are several animals are fit for halal but not fit for kashrut (like camels, horses, etc). The method of slaughter is pretty similar, but even then there’s a couple differences. There’s two ways of slaughtering a halal animal–with a knife, or with a spear (for big animals like horses). In kosher slaughter, you use a special, non-serrated knife with no nicks, that’s sharpened and examined regularly. There’s also several post-slaughter differences between the two, in examination and which parts must be removed.

 

[MorningSong51]

Muslims can and do eat Kosher meat. Jews may NOT eat halal meat.

i understood that Jews **“could” ** eat some (specific) halal meat, and under certain circumstances: (edit) Some Muslim authorities allow the consumption of Kosher, especially when Halal is not available and vice versa - Jews use salt, Muslims often use vinegar. Many of the animals that are deemed halal are also kosher, although there are exceptions.

I know that it has alot to do with the blessing over the animal (meat) and how it is slaughtered - each provides a different technique.

Good references:

K A S H R U T . C O M

Comparison of Islamic and Jewish dietary laws: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws

 

[MorningSong51]

continue:

So I note this correctly, in certain circumstances it “might be” permissible although I read this differently in other sources - that it “was not” allowed.

 

[Bezant]

continue:

So I note this correctly, in certain circumstances it “might be” permissible although I read this differently in other sources - that it “was not” allowed.

I’m thinking (at least for Orthodox standards) it’s allowed when there’s a case of necessity.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

When I worked in Lynchburg, Virginia, I would go to the City Market for lunch. One of the stalls was run by an Indian woman who got halal meat for her Muslim customers. She had no way to store enough to sell, only enough to use in meals. Despite kosher food being available, the Muslims really wanted halal meats. I have heard of some areas where farmers have made arrangements with Muslim communities to produce halal meat.

A concern about Muslim prisoners of war in the First Iraq War led the American military to consult with the Saudi religious leaders. Some of the MRE’s that were supplied would have pork in them and there was way to easily pick them out and supply something else. The judgment of the Saudi’s was that in a situation where the prisoner had no choice, the overriding principle was sustaining life and no guilt could be ascribed to someone who ate food that was not halal in that circumstance.

 

[meltzerboy]

I’ve heard from the majority of Muslims I’ve asked, “Yes,” but no agreement on the proper circumstances. For some, kosher meat is permissible at any time. For others, it’s only permissible when there is no halal meat. I don’t suppose for Muslims the Jewish butcher has to be observant.

Halal meat is not kosher by Orthodox standards. Kosher slaughter has to be carried out by an observant Jew, but practically-speaking today, kosher butchers are in a highly specialised profession–not just anyone can do it.

There are several animals are fit for halal but not fit for kashrut (like camels, horses, etc). The method of slaughter is pretty similar, but even then there’s a couple differences. There’s two ways of slaughtering a halal animal–with a knife, or with a spear (for big animals like horses). In kosher slaughter, you use a special, non-serrated knife with no nicks, that’s sharpened and examined regularly. There’s also several post-slaughter differences between the two, in examination and which parts must be removed.

Thanks for the information, Bezant. I thought the method of slaughter using a non-serrated knife with no nicks is common to both Islam and Judaism; however, I do recall reading about some such difference concerning the type of knife used as well as how it is used. Insofar as the parts being removed, I think you have a good point. Even in kashrut though, there are distinctions between kosher and glatt kosher, in which the latter requires certain portions removed–for example, parts of chicken lungs that MAY be symptomatic of disease–which are generally not removed in ordinary kosher preparation. I heard that Jewish butchers who slaughter the meat WOULD need to be observant, in lieu of an observant Muslim who kills the animal in the name of Allah, but am not sure if that is in fact correct.

 

[meltzerboy]

i understood that Jews **“could” ** eat some (specific) halal meat, and under certain circumstances: (edit) Some Muslim authorities allow the consumption of Kosher, especially when Halal is not available and vice versa - Jews use salt, Muslims often use vinegar. Many of the animals that are deemed halal are also kosher, although there are exceptions.

I know that it has alot to do with the blessing over the animal (meat) and how it is slaughtered - each provides a different technique.

Good references:

K A S H R U T . C O M

Comparison of Islamic and Jewish dietary laws: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws

Thanks for the links, MorningSong. I did not know about Muslims’ use of vinegar. The purpose of the salt in koshering is to remove the blood from the meat; I wonder if the vinegar is used for a similar purpose. I agree that the blessing before slaughter is critical. That’s one of the reasons I asked whether it would be acceptable for Muslims to eat kosher meat.

 

[meltzerboy]

When I worked in Lynchburg, Virginia, I would go to the City Market for lunch. One of the stalls was run by an Indian woman who got halal meat for her Muslim customers. She had no way to store enough to sell, only enough to use in meals. Despite kosher food being available, the Muslims really wanted halal meats. I have heard of some areas where farmers have made arrangements with Muslim communities to produce halal meat.

A concern about Muslim prisoners of war in the First Iraq War led the American military to consult with the Saudi religious leaders. Some of the MRE’s that were supplied would have pork in them and there was way to easily pick them out and supply something else. The judgment of the Saudi’s was that in a situation where the prisoner had no choice, the overriding principle was sustaining life and no guilt could be ascribed to someone who ate food that was not halal in that circumstance.

Thanks for the information, Oldtimer. It is also true according to Jewish Law, that one may eat non-kosher (or non-halal) food if one’s life and health depend on it, including in a hospital setting which may not serve kosher food. Preserving life takes precedence over kosher laws and almost all other Torah Law as well, with the exception of idolatry, I believe.

 

[MorningSong51]

Thanks for the links, MorningSong. I did not know about Muslims’ use of vinegar. The purpose of the salt in koshering is to remove the blood from the meat; I wonder if the vinegar is used for a similar purpose. I agree that the blessing before slaughter is critical. That’s one of the reasons I asked whether it would be acceptable for Muslims to eat kosher meat.

Not to get to formal on you about this, but it took me along to find this information, again! - so sympathize with me for a second ~

Yes, you’re correct. “After some special research, it turns out that halal and kashrut processes aren’t that different. The slaughtering ritual is very similar; shechita and dhabiha require the same attention to being humane during the course of slaughter. Also, there must be attention to the fact that the animal must be completely drained of blood before consumption, despite the different methods of doing so – Jews use salt, Muslims often use vinegar.” (In terms of natural chemicals, vinegar, ethanol (beverage alcohol), olive oil, and salt - is EDTA an acid that will drop the PH along with other acids in this ingredient list (lemon juice and vinegar) but it will also “sequester” metal ions in an aqueous solution which makes it a stabilizer (much like an emulsifier) and a preservative, including color. – Salt discolors the meat) Read more:

For our Muslim posters:

All things Halal: athalal.com/questions-answers.php?id=9#answer
Discover Halal: hdcglobal.com/publisher/c_discover_halal
and, ifanca.org/magazine/hc_15.pdf
halaal.co.uk/

and this is a wonder article to read: ifanca.org/magazine/hc_12.pdf

General Info:
answers.com/topic/artificial-preservatives#ixzz1aYSeO2My

youngbrokeandkosher.blogspot.com/2011/01/halal-vs-kosher.html

Vinegar is one of the oldest condiments used in foods since ancient times and it continues to be used all over the world as a flavoring and as a preservative.

On the blessing, Kosher, a blessing is said at the the beginning of the slaughter day. For halal, every animal is blessed at the moment of slaughter.

 

[Sam_777]

Yes, as ciero, Bezant, and MorningSong51 have mentioned, Muslims can eat Kosher meat per (Quran 5:5):

“This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them…”

 

[Zooey]

This may be OT, but it may be interesting in this setting to mention that I have a friend who is the pastor of an Evangelical Protestant congregation which has a large numbers of members who are Jewish-born converts to Christianity.
These folks still keep Kosher, & the pastor & her [yes, yes, but:nope: not now, :nope:not here–:doh2lease]family have become vegetarians, except when they eat with the Kosher-keeping Christians of Jewish birth, when they eat Kosher meats.
I haven’t really ever understood the logic they were using, but now I begin to get a glimmer of understanding of what the ethical thinking is for this family.

 

[MorningSong51]

This may be OT, but it may be interesting in this setting to mention that I have a friend who is the pastor of an Evangelical Protestant congregation which has a large numbers of members who are Jewish-born converts to Christianity.
These folks still keep Kosher, & the pastor & her [yes, yes, but:nope: not now, :nope:not here–:doh2lease]family have become vegetarians, except when they eat with the Kosher-keeping Christians of Jewish birth, when they eat Kosher meats.
I haven’t really ever understood the logic they were using,

but now I begin to get a glimmer of understanding of what the ethical thinking is for this family

…that kosher and halal “certified” meats are better for your health?

 

[Mudgely]

Thanks for the links, MorningSong. I did not know about Muslims’ use of vinegar. The purpose of the salt in koshering is to remove the blood from the meat; I wonder if the vinegar is used for a similar purpose. I agree that the blessing before slaughter is critical. That’s one of the reasons I asked whether it would be acceptable for Muslims to eat kosher meat.

Salt is a fascinating topic. The word “salary” comes from the tradition of paying Roman soldiers in salt. Battles have been fought. Technologies invented. The first recorded use of natural gas was from a Chinese salt mine, where the gas from the mine was used to evaporate the brine to produce salt. The Venetians were salt producers, and became traders of other goods when their salt ships opted not to return to port with empty hulls after delivering salt… It has played such a vital role in civilization, it is no surprise that it would be very important to religious ritual too.

 

[meltzerboy]

…that kosher and halal “certified” meats are better for your health?

Perhaps it is healthier together with their otherwise vegetarian diet. But I think Zooey may have been referring to the blessings required prior to slaughter. My own feeling is that halal meat might be healthier due to the use of vinegar; however, I doubt the often excessive salt used in kosher preparation is so healthy. On the other hand, the inspection of internal organs for possible disease is more rigorous than for non-kosher meats.

 

[meltzerboy]

Yes, as ciero, Bezant, and MorningSong51 have mentioned, Muslims can eat Kosher meat per (Quran 5:5):

“This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them…”

Thank you, Sam, for the reference to the Qur’an passage.

 

[meltzerboy]

This may be OT, but it may be interesting in this setting to mention that I have a friend who is the pastor of an Evangelical Protestant congregation which has a large numbers of members who are Jewish-born converts to Christianity.
These folks still keep Kosher, & the pastor & her [yes, yes, but:nope: not now, :nope:not here–:doh2lease]family have become vegetarians, except when they eat with the Kosher-keeping Christians of Jewish birth, when they eat Kosher meats.
I haven’t really ever understood the logic they were using, but now I begin to get a glimmer of understanding of what the ethical thinking is for this family.

Thank you, Zooey, for relating this story. We won’t go into the pastor’s gender here.

 

[meltzerboy]

Muslims can and do eat Kosher meat. Jews may NOT eat halal meat.

Thank you, ciero, for this information.

 

[meltzerboy]

Salt is a fascinating topic. The word “salary” comes from the tradition of paying Roman soldiers in salt. Battles have been fought. Technologies invented. The first recorded use of natural gas was from a Chinese salt mine, where the gas from the mine was used to evaporate the brine to produce salt. The Venetians were salt producers, and became traders of other goods when their salt ships opted not to return to port with empty hulls after delivering salt… It has played such a vital role in civilization, it is no surprise that it would be very important to religious ritual too.

Thank you, Mudgely, for this bit of “salt history.”