Are Muslims allowed to eat kosher meat (which is halal) if slaughtered by a Jew?

[Zooey]

Perhaps it is healthier together with their otherwise vegetarian diet. But I think Zooey may have been referring to the blessings required prior to slaughter. My own feeling is that halal meat might be healthier due to the use of vinegar; however, I doubt the often excessive salt used in kosher preparation is so healthy. On the other hand, the inspection of internal organs for possible disease is more rigorous than for non-kosher meats.

:yup:

 

[MorningSong51]

Perhaps it is healthier together with their otherwise vegetarian diet. But I think Zooey may have been referring to the blessings required prior to slaughter. My own feeling is that halal meat might be healthier due to the use of vinegar; however, I doubt the often excessive salt used in kosher preparation is so healthy. On the other hand, the inspection of internal organs for possible disease is more rigorous than for non-kosher meats.

…Ah! you know the slaughtering process is better all the way around on both kosher and halal meats as it is painless to the animal also,how the meat is being prepared after salting,it is left for one hour with the salt on it and allowed to drain. At the end of 60 minutes, the meat is washed to remove the salt, and the meat is now considered kosher.

 

[Bezant]

Thanks for the information, Bezant. I thought the method of slaughter using a non-serrated knife with no nicks is common to both Islam and Judaism; however, I do recall reading about some such difference concerning the type of knife used as well as how it is used.

Ah, I see. & No problem.

Insofar as the parts being removed, I think you have a good point. Even in kashrut though, there are distinctions between kosher and glatt kosher, in which the latter requires certain portions removed–for example, parts of chicken lungs that MAY be symptomatic of disease–which are generally not removed in ordinary kosher preparation. I heard that Jewish butchers who slaughter the meat WOULD need to be observant, in lieu of an observant Muslim who kills the animal in the name of Allah, but am not sure if that is in fact correct.

And I also wonder if the same ‘observant’ required by Muslims for kosher slaughter is the same ‘observant’ required by Jews…

Food is a most interesting topic

 

[Mudgely]

…Ah! you know the slaughtering process is better all the way around on both kosher and halal meats as it is painless to the animal also,how the meat is being prepared after salting,it is left for one hour with the salt on it and allowed to drain. At the end of 60 minutes, the meat is washed to remove the salt, and the meat is now considered kosher.

I still remember as a kid, a Jewish friend pointed out that many of the traditions with food resulted in more hygienic and healthful practices in the days before refrigeration and rapid transport. Meat is also salted before smoking, or other slow cooking methods because bacteria spoilage is from the outside inward. If you brine or salt the exterior of the meat, then it will not spoil before the meat is cooked through. How nice that a religious tradition would contribute to spiritual as well as physical health.

 

[MorningSong51]

I’m thinking (at least for Orthodox standards) it’s allowed when there’s a case of necessity.

Yes, I would think so …and also thank you for your last post, - I didn’t read your message back from meltzerboy until now on the processing of the meat. So sorry for the repeat on mine.

Thanks again.
Mary

 

[MorningSong51]

I still remember as a kid, a Jewish friend pointed out that many of the traditions with food resulted in more hygienic and healthful practices in the days before refrigeration and rapid transport. Meat is also salted before smoking, or other slow cooking methods because bacteria spoilage is from the outside inward. If you brine or salt the exterior of the meat, then it will not spoil before the meat is cooked through. How nice that a religious tradition would contribute to spiritual as well as physical health.

Yes, I agree and I believe that you’re correct about the curing/smoking of the meat to preserve the food and spoilage- also (and backing up a bit) I read that the most common ingredients of biltong are: Vinegar and Salt, the website that I looked at said that ideally the meat is marinated in a vinegar solution (cider vinegar is traditional but balsamic also works very well) for a few hours - so for Halal, I think cider vinegar is o.k. Also, I think when preserving foods in vinegar (or other acid) - its under pickling. My mom and aunt use to can and pickle many years back, when the family still had their great grandfather’s farm. My aunt had this huge tub of pickles and all of us kids use to reach in and grab them- how wonderful that use to be along with going through our neighbor’s yard for the rhubarb - with sugar on it, yum!

Reference:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biltong

 

[rain_bow]

To my Muslim friends: what are the restrictions, if any, pertaining to Muslims’ eating kosher meat? Does the Jew have to be observant? Does a Jewish blessing make the meat haram? To my (Orthodox) Jewish friends: what about the reverse? If halal meat is kosher, can a Jew eat it if a Muslim blesses it in the name of Allah?

If a Jewish will say, " Bismillahir rahmanir rahim" or " Bismillahe allahu akbar" and then kill the animal, only then Muslims can eat this meat.

 

[tundramom]

I raise chickens and we have “slaughter day” using kosher methods. The end result is absolutely remarkable. Our first year we tried letting the chicken run around just to see if they would. (they do) Trying to clean that bird after slaughter convinced me how inhumane that method is and we have never done it since. The meat is remarkably cleaner when done the kosher way.

Steph

 

[hamba2han]

If anyone wishes to learn about the scientific benefits of slaughtering animals according to halal procedure, then I would suggest that you watch a very informative documentary on the subject, of which this YouTube video is the 1st of 5 parts.

 

[meltzerboy]

If a Jewish will say, " Bismillahir rahmanir rahim" or " Bismillahe allahu akbar" and then kill the animal, only then Muslims can eat this meat.

I had thought the specific blessing makes a difference. Thanks for the information, rain_bow.

 

[rain_bow]

I had thought the specific blessing makes a difference. Thanks for the information, rain_bow.

My pleasure!!

 

[meedo]

If a Jewish will say, " Bismillahir rahmanir rahim" or " Bismillahe allahu akbar" and then kill the animal, only then Muslims can eat this meat.

i dont think this is true. If he says … in the name of teh God of Moses and Abraham… then this is very valid for muslims. Its the same God.

 

[Peace_of_cake]

i dont think this is true. If he says … in the name of teh God of Moses and Abraham… then this is very valid for muslims. Its the same God.

As I understand it Kosher food is acceptable in the capacity that it is like halal food. Alcohol is kosher, but not halal etc. The saying of God’s name is an important element of the slaughter although I don’t believe it is a rukn (essential element) in most schools. However any name for God will do providing there is nothing problematic in meaning, so Jehovah, Yahweh or God is fine - their books are clear on this. Interestingly Muslims historically only required Jews - when they converted - to only confirm Muhammad’s prophethood since their belief in one God ‘is manifest.’
On a side point, since Kosher food is so well regulated compared to Halal it is entirely likely that Kosher is more likely to be Halal!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I am aware that some meat processing plants have “kosher lines” that aren’t a great deal different from the non-kosher lines. They do have to hire rabbis to say certain prayers and certify that the product of the kosher line is kosher. But there isn’t really a lot of difference otherwise.

Some have halal lines as well, but I have never heard them described.

Since I was on topic, I might be forgiven for including the following, which was surprising to me when I learned it. Kosher wine is supposed to be “mevushal” and there are some qualifications for that, one being that it can’t be from vines that are less than three years into production. A lot of kosher wine is pasteurized for purity, but some isn’t. For a Mevushal wine that isn’t pasteurized, I, as a gentile, can give a bottle to a Jewish friend, but he has to open it. I can’t, or it will become non-kosher and he can’t drink it. But he can open it and pour some into my glass as well as his own, and it stays kosher.

 

[meltzerboy]

I am aware that some meat processing plants have “kosher lines” that aren’t a great deal different from the non-kosher lines. They do have to hire rabbis to say certain prayers and certify that the product of the kosher line is kosher. But there isn’t really a lot of difference otherwise.

Some have halal lines as well, but I have never heard them described.

Since I was on topic, I might be forgiven for including the following, which was surprising to me when I learned it. Kosher wine is supposed to be “mevushal” and there are some qualifications for that, one being that it can’t be from vines that are less than three years into production. A lot of kosher wine is pasteurized for purity, but some isn’t. For a Mevushal wine that isn’t pasteurized, I, as a gentile, can give a bottle to a Jewish friend, but he has to open it. I can’t, or it will become non-kosher and he can’t drink it. But he can open it and pour some into my glass as well as his own, and it stays kosher.

I’m no expert on the intricacies of all the kosher regulations–many of which I, as a Reform Jew, don’t practice–but my understanding is that if it is a Mevushal wine (which is boiled to a certain temperature, which is itself a topic of dispute), then it doesn’t matter who pours it, Jew or Gentile. I guess that’s what you meant by non-pasteurized, but I believe a basic feature of Mevushal wine is that it commonly is pasteurized, although I might be wrong on this. The justification is that a non-Mevushal kosher wine poured, or even held, by a Gentile may have been offered to Baal as a symbol of idol worship. Even the hint of idolatry is strictly forbidden in Judaism, so much so that it is the one law that cannot be broken even if one’s life is in danger. All other Torah Law, including the kosher laws, rest on the Sabbath, and fasting on Yom Kippur, are superseded by life and health dangers.

 

[LUV4ALL]

There is no compulsion in Islam. I have observed some people to take things too seriously when it comes to religion that it takes things out of context. I live in America and eat fast food from time to time. Burger King does not have halal meat and thats fine. If I am raelly observant I would recite the Islamic creed, “There is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger” and all will be well. Too many times I have noticed people shy away from simple things as yogurt and even skittles that they will not have them. I will and do not beleive I will go to hell. I will first make an attempt to get Halal products and if such is not available I will still eat but recite the creed.

 

[Peace_of_cake]

There is no compulsion in Islam. I have observed some people to take things too seriously when it comes to religion that it takes things out of context. I live in America and eat fast food from time to time. Burger King does not have halal meat and thats fine. If I am raelly observant I would recite the Islamic creed, “There is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger” and all will be well. Too many times I have noticed people shy away from simple things as yogurt and even skittles that they will not have them. I will and do not beleive I will go to hell. I will first make an attempt to get Halal products and if such is not available I will still eat but recite the creed.

Obviously you do whatever your comfortable with However this wouldn’t be the classical understanding - which is all I’m familiar with. There is a verse in the Quran (I can’t remember where) which says eat of the halal and do good works, scholars have understood this to be the purpose of halal food: it gives one the capacity to do good works. I’m sure the principle is much like in Judaism (not that I know much about the latter) that to eat haram food is spiritually poisonous.
There seems a bit of controversy of late with halal food, I did have a book by Taqi Usmani about the issue. I can’t remember the essential elements, but I think it is to cut the jugular vein and coroted artery and maybe it was to pronounce God’s name and it can be performed by a Muslim Jew or Christian

 

[Peace_of_cake]

I’m no expert on the intricacies of all the kosher regulations–many of which I, as a Reform Jew, don’t practice–but my understanding is that if it is a Mevushal wine (which is boiled to a certain temperature, which is itself a topic of dispute), then it doesn’t matter who pours it, Jew or Gentile. I guess that’s what you meant by non-pasteurized, but I believe a basic feature of Mevushal wine is that it commonly is pasteurized, although I might be wrong on this. The justification is that a non-Mevushal kosher wine poured, or even held, by a Gentile may have been offered to Baal as a symbol of idol worship. Even the hint of idolatry is strictly forbidden in Judaism, so much so that it is the one law that cannot be broken even if one’s life is in danger. All other Torah Law, including the kosher laws, rest on the Sabbath, and fasting on Yom Kippur, are superseded by life and health dangers.

This was very interesting when I mentioned alcohol, I was being over simplastic. In the Hanafi school the alcohol is either pure or filth - it’s filth in others. If it’s intoxicating in large quantities then it’s impermissible regardless even in small quantities. The filth (it means spiritually unlearn as opposed to full of bacteria etc) is from dates and grapes. Other than this is not so sythetic alcohol is pure and if not intoxicating then halal. If beer came under the same category then I understand it would also be ok - very weak non intoxicating beer. I understand such a beer was in consumption in 7th C Arabia and was drank by Muhammad - there is not much else you can do to make water safe for drinking.

 

[LUV4ALL]

You are absolutely right about the method of slaughtering an animal using a halal form and I have witnessed this on several occasions. The main thing I would point out is that times change and so do circumstances. So leaders of our time prescribe to us refined ways of dealing with the change. This method of eating meat that is not halal but repeating the creed before taking the first bite is a new idea one that takes into understanding that sometimes there is no access to halal food. This is by no means going against classical understanding but accommodates a more rational perspective on this new era. But of course finding halal food is recommended. The purpose of Halal is to provide the animal with a less painful death. The blood that goes towards the brain is instead pouring outwards and so the pain is not felt at all or that much even by the animal. This is a command from God which gives insight that this is the extent to which the slaughtering and caring for the animals pain threshold is enough.

As a side note in terms of eating pork Jesus had prohibtied the eating of pork and there is no mention in the bible of Jesus eating pork or lifting the prohibition of pork.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m no expert on the intricacies of all the kosher regulations–many of which I, as a Reform Jew, don’t practice–but my understanding is that if it is a Mevushal wine (which is boiled to a certain temperature, which is itself a topic of dispute), then it doesn’t matter who pours it, Jew or Gentile. I guess that’s what you meant by non-pasteurized, but I believe a basic feature of Mevushal wine is that it commonly is pasteurized, although I might be wrong on this. The justification is that a non-Mevushal kosher wine poured, or even held, by a Gentile may have been offered to Baal as a symbol of idol worship. Even the hint of idolatry is strictly forbidden in Judaism, so much so that it is the one law that cannot be broken even if one’s life is in danger. All other Torah Law, including the kosher laws, rest on the Sabbath, and fasting on Yom Kippur, are superseded by life and health dangers.

You are probably closer to being an expert than I am. But this all came to my attention when I bought some (really great) wine from the Golan Heights. It was explained to me that, to be kosher, most wine, indeed, has to be raised to some temperature or other. However, it’s not impossible to make wine without this “pasteurization”, and this particular vineyard was able to make it kosher without heating it. I understand it’s difficult, though. This wine bore the seals of the rabbi of Tiberius and the rabbi of Galilee, and was certified suitable for Passover. I believe the winery is called “Yarden”, which I think is Hebrew for “Jordan” (the river). I don’t want to do a commercial here, but it’s uncommonly good stuff.

Anyway, I was further told that a “pasteurized” kosher wine was okay for a gentile to pour out without it becoming non-kosher, but if the wine was not pasteurized (like Yarden), it became non-kosher if a gentile opened and poured it; perhaps either of them.