Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Because this thread is about the (by our faith) evil things Mohammed did. Mohammed never repented of them. We want to know if you think they are evil deeds and if Mohammed should have repented.
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D
dzheremi
Guest
Because it is made largely irrelevant by the fact that she was a basically a baby when they were “married”. Who wouldn’t expect such a person to become attached to the male figure in their life, especially when he is old enough to be their grandfather? Do you really think that is a healthy relationship, or any sort of model for the rest of humanity as Muhammad’s every action is taken to be?
How do you say “Stockholm Syndrome” in Arabic?
R
Reuben_J
Guest
I heard this claim quite often from Muslims but none of you have told us what was the persecution specifically.
Now I want to ask you, how was early Muslims persecuted by the pagans in Makkah?
Did they tortured, killed or threw the Muslims to the camels?
If they did, why did they do that? Was the early Muslims peacefully minding their own business and then out of the blue the pagans found fault with them and killed them?
Please recount to us the persecution of those early Muslims by the pagans of Makkah so that this subject will be put to rest once and for all.
Thank you.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Now let’s hear it from the horse’s mouth. What do you think about a 53 year old man having sex with a 9 year old child? Do you approve of it? Do you think it is perfectly normal? Do you think that a prophet should engaged in sex with a nine year old child? Do you think a nine year old child should get married? And marry a man of 53 years old?
What is your view on child marriage? Can a six year old make an adult decision especially with regards to marriage? At what age do you consider a person being able to independently make an important decision on his own?
Do you approve a nine year old child engaging in sex? What is the minimum age do you think a person should be allowed to have sex (that’s legal sex, considering he/she is married, like Mohammad and Aishah)?
Thank you.
H
hamba2han
Guest
Since the Biblical Prophets (peace be upon them all) very likely married women who were even younger than Mary and Aisha, then is there Biblical evidence that the Lord disapproves of such marriages?Because it is made largely irrelevant by the fact that she was a basically a baby when they were “married”. Who wouldn’t expect such a person to become attached to the male figure in their life, especially when he is old enough to be their grandfather? Do you really think that is a healthy relationship, or any sort of model for the rest of humanity as Muhammad’s every action is taken to be?
How do you say “Stockholm Syndrome” in Arabic?
And if the Creator sees nothing morally wrong with it, then why are the creations getting so uppity about these kind of marriages?
J
jakasaki
Guest
That line I bolded didn’t give me any warm and fuzzie feelings, picturing in my head this 53 year old man with this little child and husband and wife.
J
jakasaki
Guest
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Which prophet other than Mohammad married a girl younger than six year old?
Where did God approve such marriage, if there was any?
Where did God approved multiple wives?
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
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"O Prophet! Say to your wives:
If you desire the life of this world and its adornments, then come and I will bestow its goods upon you, and I will release you with a fair release.
But if you desire God and His Messenger and the abode of the Hereafter, th en verily God has laid in store for you an immense reward for such as you who do good." ( 33:28-29 )
Aishah’s (ra ) reply was: “Indeed I desire God and His Messenger and the abode of the Hereafter,” and her response was followed by all the others.
“I looked at the full moon and compared it to the face of prophet of God and I could not decide which one was more beautiful.” This is how she felt of her husband and conveyed it to others in her mature old age.
related links :
Addressing Misconceptions about Prophet’s Marriage to `Aisha (ra)
islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=63495
A Woman For All Seasons: Aisha bint Abu Bakr
Denise Halel
crescentlife.com/index.htm
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good point , bro.
"O Prophet! Say to your wives:
If you desire the life of this world and its adornments, then come and I will bestow its goods upon you, and I will release you with a fair release.
But if you desire God and His Messenger and the abode of the Hereafter, th en verily God has laid in store for you an immense reward for such as you who do good." ( 33:28-29 )
Aishah’s (ra ) reply was: “Indeed I desire God and His Messenger and the abode of the Hereafter,” and her response was followed by all the others.
“I looked at the full moon and compared it to the face of prophet of God and I could not decide which one was more beautiful.” This is how she felt of her husband and conveyed it to others in her mature old age.
related links :
Addressing Misconceptions about Prophet’s Marriage to `Aisha (ra)
islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=63495
A Woman For All Seasons: Aisha bint Abu Bakr
Denise Halel
crescentlife.com/index.htm
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Thanks Pam. I just want to make sure my questions are included in the actions of Mohammad that he approved of. By asking him the specific questions I wanted him to answer them unequivocally clear and frankly. I want him to say, “I approve of a 53 year old to have sex with a nine year old child. …” Something that comes out of his own mouth so that when he says it he knows he will be accountable for what he says. I want him to say it with full conscience and perhaps looking at me in the eyes, so to speak.
There is too much ambiguity sometimes we can never know for sure what their stand is. Someone says it’s ‘takkiya’ but we never know until we hear it from themselves.
J
jakasaki
Guest
Understood!
E
empurpledsoul
Guest
There is no way to discern from this if Aisha wasn’t in love with Allah and the idea of her husband being the most perfect man ever or the human himself. Odds are if he was just another guy in Arabia, as many young girls must be married to now, she wouldn’t have swooned and called him beautiful like this.
Seeing that she was being taught from her earliest time that the man she was with was highly elevated in status, I am sure she romanticized about her great luck to be the wife of him as she was in her mature age, for he was one with great power and ‘holiness’, not just a mere mortal, but THE most perfect human to ever walk the earth!!! This has more to do with her belief in this claim than anything else, just like Monica Lewinsky swooned to be with the most powerful man on earth, Bill Clinton.
B
Booklover
Guest
Check out this link.
"It is our intention to show in this paper that the claim that the pagans were the ones who first persecuted Muhammad is not supported by the Islamic data. We will see that the Islamic evidence actually shows that it was Muhammad who first attacked and antagonized the pagan Meccans by assaulting their religion and family values, thereby igniting the anger of the Meccans and instigating their subsequent retaliation against Muhammad and his followers.
Another point worth emphasizing is that it is the Islamic sources themselves that do not support the common Muslim theory that the pagans were the ones who antagonized Muhammad. For nearly every conflict in this world, whether wars between nations or arguments between individuals, if one were to ask one of the parties involved, one will almost always get the answer that the other side started it. The others are guilty that this confrontation ever went so far. It is common sense that in order to determine the truth, one needs to look at the arguments from both sides. History is usually written by those who were victorious. That does not necessarily mean that their view of things is objectively true."
Vickie
R
R_not
Guest
Jesus vs mohammed
Matt 1:18-25 Jesus was born of a virgin.
Ibn Hisham pp. 68-69 mohammed was born of a normal woman.
Luke 2:39-52 Jesus served God as a child.
Bukhari vol6 p452 mohammed was an idolater.
Luke 4:16-21 Jesus read the Bible.
koran 7:156 mohammed was illiterate.
Luke 4:16-21 and 8:1-3 Jesus preached the gospel at God’s commnd and lived on the donations of others.
Ibn Hisham pp281- mohammed, wihtout being commanded by God, began to steal from others and live on their goods.
Mark 3:9-10 Jesus performed miracles.
koran 29:49 mohammed could not perform miracles.
Luke 18:35-43 Jesus made blind eyes see.
Bukhari vol8 p520 mohammed made seeing eyes blind.
Matt 9:2-8 Jesus made the lame walk.
Bukhari vol8 p520 mohammed made the walking lame.
Matt. 12:10-13 Jesus healed withered hands. (mohammed said to chop them off)
John 11:1-45 Jesus raised the dead.
Ibn Hisham p. 308 mohammed had the living killed.
Luke 23:43 Jesus forgave His opponents.
Bukhari vol5 pp248- mohammed had his opponents murdered, even an old man over 100 yrs old and a woman still suckling her baby.
John 8:1-11 Jesus set the condemned free.
Ibn Hisham p466 mohammed condemned the free and led them into slavery.
Luke 20:1 Jesus preached in God’s chosen temple.
Bukahri vol1 p151 mohammed prayed at the kabaa when it still contained hundreds of idols.
Matt 5:31-32 Jesus preached against divorce.
koran 2:230 mohammed preached divorce and allowed temporary marriage with compensation.
Bukhari vol7 p8
John 8:46 Jesus was sinless.
koran 47:21 mohammed was sinful.
koran 110
John 1:29 and 10:18 Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice for all mankind.
Bukhari vol5 p510 mohammed died unexpectedly of illness which he himself said was due to a poisoning attempt. At the time of his death he cursed others.
Luke 23 and 24 Jesus rose from the dead on the 3rd day after His death, and later ascended into heaven.
al-Tabari vol9 p208 mohammed rots. mohammed was buried in Medina on the 3rd day after his death. His tomb is vistited by
pilgrims each year.
Jesus was a religious leader.
mohammed was a warlord.
Jesus never killed anyone.
mohammed killed an estimated 3,000 people, including 700 Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina, AD 627. And that was just a start of his killing spree, and that of his followers.
Jesus never owned slaves.
mohammed received a 5th of the prisoners taken in battle, including women and children, surah 8:41
Jesus never married
mohammed had many wives and slave girls. Bukhari, vol1 bk5 no268
Jesus never forced followers to continue believing. John 6:31-69
mohammed forced followers to continue believing, ‘Whoever changed his islamic religion, then kill him.’ Bukhari vol9 bok84 no57
A martyr in Christian and Jewish thought is one who dies for his faith.
A martyr in islamic ‘thought’ is one who dies for his faith while killing infidels.
Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. surah 9:123, 66:9
Fight those who believe not in allah nor the last day. surah 9:29
Jesus’ religion is known for forgiveness and love.
mohammed’s religion is known for submission and fear.
None of Jesus’ Apostles led armies. Luke 9:52-56
All of the caliphs who followed mohammed led armies. Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar Uthman, Lai, Muawiyya, the Umayyads, the Abbasids, etc)
Matt 1:18-25 Jesus was born of a virgin.
Ibn Hisham pp. 68-69 mohammed was born of a normal woman.
Luke 2:39-52 Jesus served God as a child.
Bukhari vol6 p452 mohammed was an idolater.
Luke 4:16-21 Jesus read the Bible.
koran 7:156 mohammed was illiterate.
Luke 4:16-21 and 8:1-3 Jesus preached the gospel at God’s commnd and lived on the donations of others.
Ibn Hisham pp281- mohammed, wihtout being commanded by God, began to steal from others and live on their goods.
Mark 3:9-10 Jesus performed miracles.
koran 29:49 mohammed could not perform miracles.
Luke 18:35-43 Jesus made blind eyes see.
Bukhari vol8 p520 mohammed made seeing eyes blind.
Matt 9:2-8 Jesus made the lame walk.
Bukhari vol8 p520 mohammed made the walking lame.
Matt. 12:10-13 Jesus healed withered hands. (mohammed said to chop them off)
John 11:1-45 Jesus raised the dead.
Ibn Hisham p. 308 mohammed had the living killed.
Luke 23:43 Jesus forgave His opponents.
Bukhari vol5 pp248- mohammed had his opponents murdered, even an old man over 100 yrs old and a woman still suckling her baby.
John 8:1-11 Jesus set the condemned free.
Ibn Hisham p466 mohammed condemned the free and led them into slavery.
Luke 20:1 Jesus preached in God’s chosen temple.
Bukahri vol1 p151 mohammed prayed at the kabaa when it still contained hundreds of idols.
Matt 5:31-32 Jesus preached against divorce.
koran 2:230 mohammed preached divorce and allowed temporary marriage with compensation.
Bukhari vol7 p8
John 8:46 Jesus was sinless.
koran 47:21 mohammed was sinful.
koran 110
John 1:29 and 10:18 Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice for all mankind.
Bukhari vol5 p510 mohammed died unexpectedly of illness which he himself said was due to a poisoning attempt. At the time of his death he cursed others.
Luke 23 and 24 Jesus rose from the dead on the 3rd day after His death, and later ascended into heaven.
al-Tabari vol9 p208 mohammed rots. mohammed was buried in Medina on the 3rd day after his death. His tomb is vistited by
pilgrims each year.
Jesus was a religious leader.
mohammed was a warlord.
Jesus never killed anyone.
mohammed killed an estimated 3,000 people, including 700 Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina, AD 627. And that was just a start of his killing spree, and that of his followers.
Jesus never owned slaves.
mohammed received a 5th of the prisoners taken in battle, including women and children, surah 8:41
Jesus never married
mohammed had many wives and slave girls. Bukhari, vol1 bk5 no268
Jesus never forced followers to continue believing. John 6:31-69
mohammed forced followers to continue believing, ‘Whoever changed his islamic religion, then kill him.’ Bukhari vol9 bok84 no57
A martyr in Christian and Jewish thought is one who dies for his faith.
A martyr in islamic ‘thought’ is one who dies for his faith while killing infidels.
Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. surah 9:123, 66:9
Fight those who believe not in allah nor the last day. surah 9:29
Jesus’ religion is known for forgiveness and love.
mohammed’s religion is known for submission and fear.
None of Jesus’ Apostles led armies. Luke 9:52-56
All of the caliphs who followed mohammed led armies. Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar Uthman, Lai, Muawiyya, the Umayyads, the Abbasids, etc)
E
empurpledsoul
Guest
^^ True dat!
But the truth that this reveals is lost to those blinded by the shadow of Islam unfortunately.
None so blind as those who will themselves to not see!
But the truth that this reveals is lost to those blinded by the shadow of Islam unfortunately.
None so blind as those who will themselves to not see!
R
R_not
Guest
the thing is that we have pointed out all these things about mohammed to them - it is in their own texts - and they don’t care. They have love/hate, war/peace, etc so twisted up that their minds would be like walking through a den of loose tigers some of which have eaten and some who have not - and would leap at any time to gourge. If we walk through with more people than they - they stay back, if we walk with fewer - they pounce.
And they have no bars to hold them back to get what they want. They use immigration/uncontrolled births, deception, infiltration, etc to enable them to pounce. And we just go ‘la dee da’ and think we will be safe and life will keep on going as is because we think they are ‘over there’, and couldn’t imagine that we could be devoured in this den.
‘They’ are in our schools - the MSA (muslim student association) that have direct ties to the muslim brotherhood/wahabbism, etc. They are in our FBI/CIA/Pentagon, governments, etc. Our ‘leaders’, both religious and political, just saunter on and tell us it is we who are the bad ones who should be ashamed of ourselves even though we accepted them into our lands for whatever reason while we are not accepted into their lands, and in some instances we see that as they gather in areas - we are not welcome, or safe, in their areas. (over 700 ‘sensitive urban areas’ in France alone that non-muslims are not safe in). Holland has an increase in crime where muslims are 70% of the perpetrators against non-muslims. The same in other countries. (the link is a 3part video where it goes into this on the third video)
And as their numbers increase the liklihood that a muslim would leave islam lessens because it becomes more and more dangerous for them to leave.
They offer nothing to replace our governments except barbarism. Students are to study the koran for hours on end and that replaces science, math, history, etc. koranic science, history, etc - all a joke as we read from the muslims on these threads. This is what we condemn our children to if islam wins.
E
empurpledsoul
Guest
Yep, as I said there are none so blind as those who** will themselves** to not see.
P
planten
Guest
**There is a verse of the Quran (chapter 17): " Those who are blind in this world will be raised blind in the next life too." Of course the spiritual blindness is meant here because in the very next few words of same verse it says " and they will be more misguided than before."
The problem is that Hamba2han has presented some clear words of the bible that:
- Jesus came only for the lost sheep of Israel. i.e the Jews.
- He forabde his disciples to preach to any non-Jew.
- He again told his apostles not to preach to any gentile (non-Jew.)
- Jesus said that preaching to non-Jews was like giving the bread of the children to the dogs.
E
empurpledsoul
Guest
Again, you are just proof of my statement since there have been plenty of posts giving you direct scripture and explanations of your error. But you are willing yourself to be blind, because your ego insists that is is about ‘being right’ and not about ‘finding truth’.
Good luck.
S
seraphime2008
Guest
Well…maybe Planten is just too lazy to look up for the explanation to his questions. Or he will himself not to see. But here’s a bit explanation of your question, perhaps other can help too.
When Jesus said not to preach to the gentiles, He knew that His disciples are not ready, because they haven’t seen the whole picture of God plan until He is resurrected and until He gave them full understanding by giving them the Holy Spirit. He Himself only preach to the Jews because the Jews were the ones who should’ve understood His teaching, because they inherited first all the law that was given to them by the earlier prophets, they should’ve been able to see the continuation and the fulfillment of what God promised them in Him. He knew very well that His time was short, He should be efficient. But of course for them to grasp doesn’t mean to understand. Only His complete life could enlighten them.
Since the death of Jesus and His resurrection, God’s plan have been fulfilled. Then, only then the teachings and the whole salvation became complete and clearly understood by the disciples, and then they were sent to the whole world as what Jesus told them to in Matthew 28.
I hope it helps you to understand. Other friends here could elaborate what I missed. But that will be another thread not related to the topic.
Planten, for all your obstinacy I understand that it’s very hard to accept the truth, especially regarding something that you hold so dearly. But as Lord has told us, the truth will set you free even though it may be very bitter and hurtful. Sometimes it takes a surgery which could be terrifying and hurtful to remove the cancer.
I sincerely pray for you and the Muslims. May the light of truth will finally shine to you and them.
When Jesus said not to preach to the gentiles, He knew that His disciples are not ready, because they haven’t seen the whole picture of God plan until He is resurrected and until He gave them full understanding by giving them the Holy Spirit. He Himself only preach to the Jews because the Jews were the ones who should’ve understood His teaching, because they inherited first all the law that was given to them by the earlier prophets, they should’ve been able to see the continuation and the fulfillment of what God promised them in Him. He knew very well that His time was short, He should be efficient. But of course for them to grasp doesn’t mean to understand. Only His complete life could enlighten them.
Since the death of Jesus and His resurrection, God’s plan have been fulfilled. Then, only then the teachings and the whole salvation became complete and clearly understood by the disciples, and then they were sent to the whole world as what Jesus told them to in Matthew 28.
I hope it helps you to understand. Other friends here could elaborate what I missed. But that will be another thread not related to the topic.
Planten, for all your obstinacy I understand that it’s very hard to accept the truth, especially regarding something that you hold so dearly. But as Lord has told us, the truth will set you free even though it may be very bitter and hurtful. Sometimes it takes a surgery which could be terrifying and hurtful to remove the cancer.
I sincerely pray for you and the Muslims. May the light of truth will finally shine to you and them.
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