Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[jakasaki]

**D i L, I asked you to bring. Not to sing. have you shown anything from the bible, any word of Mary that God is the father of Jesus. No. Not at all. You seem to be singing some tune which had been programmed into you.

Don’t get hot. Cool down and bring something from bibleNT. Some words of Mary, please. If you do not bring it then it is all a made up story that you are telling to the world for enough long time. I am sure that Mary never said jesus was son of God.

WE Muslims do not believe that Jesus was son of God. You believe it. So prove it through the mother of Jesus. And do not tell me the virgin theory because that is flawed. Your definition of virgin is all wrong, irrational.**.

Planten, what are you yacking about… the Virgin Birth is mentioned in your koran, why question the Bible…?

Behold! the angels said:
"O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous". **She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” **

**He said: “Even so: God createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a Plan, He but saith to it, ‘Be’, and it is!” **
Surah 3.45-47.

Then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: “I seek refuge from thee to (God) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou cost fear God”.

He said: **“Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son”. **

She said: **“How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?” He said: “So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, ‘That is easy for Me : and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us’: it is a matter (so) decreed”. **Surah 19.17-21.

 

[jakasaki]

Planten, this is for you and perhaps it might help you understand… a statement of our faith

**We **believe in **one God ****who is eternally existent in three persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - and that He created everything ex nihilo (out of nothing) for His own pleasure and purpose.

We believe that the 66 books that comprise the Bible are the plenary, verbal inspired Word of God, inerrant and infallible in the original manuscripts, and the guide and final authority in matters of faith and day to day life, interpreted by the Holy Spirit to each individual believer.

We believe in the existence and personality of Satan, his complete opposition to God and his power over the unregenerate. **

We believe that man was created perfectly in the image of God, and when he sinned, mankind incurred both physical and spiritual death; thus man became eternally separated from God and is incapable of providing redemption for himself.

**We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was begotten of the Father through the Holy Spirit, and was born of the Virgin Mary, and is true man without ceasing to be God. Thus He is the God-man. **

**We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ lived a perfect and sinless life that fully pleased His Father; that He gave Himself of His own free will to be the sacrifice for the redemption of man and that He bore the judgment demanded by God’s holy justice against sin, thus making it possible for God to remain just and yet at the same time to justify those who believe in His Son Jesus Christ. **

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose in a glorified but human body from the dead, never to die again, and ascended to the right hand of the Father where, as high priest of His church, He mediates between God and man for those who are repentant believers.

**We believe that those who by faith alone and through no merit of their own receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior are miraculously born again of the Holy Spirit and become children of God and are partakers of eternal life. **

**We believe that the Holy Spirit baptizes all true believers into the one true Church, his Body; that He indwells them eternally, bestows spiritual gifts upon them, and empowers them for service and holy living. **

**We believe that the Scriptures have given us everything pertaining to life and godliness, including not only salvation from the penalty of sin but instruction in righteousness for present sanctification and victorious living to the glory of God. **

**We believe that two ordinances, neither of which is essential to salvation, are to be observed by all believers in obedience to our Lord until His return: baptism and the Lord’s Supper. **

**We believe that at death the souls of the redeemed pass immediately into Christ’s presence, to remain there until the resurrection of the body at Christ’s return for His bride. We also believe that at death the souls of the lost go to Hell, where they will remain until they are brought before Christ at the Great White Throne final judgment to be judged according to their works and cast into the Lake of Fire, there to remain eternally. **

**We believe that our Lord Jesus Christ will one day return for His Church to gather them as He promised. **

 

[josie_L]

Hi guys! I must have missed something because I just don’t get the joke with the smiley. Can someone please explain?

Vickie

npatrol: npatrol: npatrol: npatrol: npatrol: npatrol: npatrol:

By the way vickie, these are CAF secret service men, so if you ever need them they’re only one click away.

 

[josie_L]

Good morning Vickie…

It was Josies post #366 with the animated smileys which made me crack up. That’s were it got started!

Best regards,
Pam

This icon isn’t so much angry as it is evil-looking. I mean put a beard on it, and voila, a terrorist smiley.

 

[Reuben_J]

After 9/11 , I thought there is no chance that Islam can remain in USA , no chance. But later I read that few thousands Amercians so far ( after that tragedy) became Muslims. I have to browse for the exact figures .

How could it not be? Right after 9/11, millions across the world went out to the streets to celebrate. Obviously there were many people who thought 9/11 was the right thing to do. Obviously there are many people who buy the idea.

If I am not mistaken the world today is roughly made up of more than six billion. If 10% believe in it and 1% of those may be living in the USA, well, there you are … .

 

[hamba2han]

I really do not wish to continually explain the marriage of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) with Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her), but since this is such a “hot” topic on these message boards, then perhaps an occasional reminder is in order.

When we read the Bible, we learn about some Prophets marrying many wives, even hundreds of wives in some cases. Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament:

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon’s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

And knowing that the Bible’s Old Testament allowed before for men to have sex with girls who were at the age of 3, then it really would not surprise that those Biblical Prophets who had 700 wives for instance, had many very young “teenage” girls before as their wives.

It would not also come as a surprise that if they too had wives that were younger than Mary when she got pregnant, and younger than Aisha when she got married.

Since there are so many wives that those Prophets married (hundreds of wives), then how would anyone know that they didn’t marry young women as Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did with his marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her)?

Did their act of marrying young girls disqualify the Biblical Prophets (peace be upon them all) from being true Prophets of God?

‘Yes’ or ‘No’?

If the answer is ‘No’, then why are the detractors of Islam so quick and eager to disqualify Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) just based on his marriage to Aisha (ra)?

 

[Reuben_J]

I really do not wish to continually explain the marriage of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) with Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her), but since this is such a “hot” topic on these message boards, then perhaps an occasional reminder is in order.

When we read the Bible, we learn about some Prophets marrying many wives, even hundreds of wives in some cases. Let us look at some of the verses from the Old Testament:

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon’s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

And knowing that the Bible’s Old Testament allowed before for men to have sex with girls who were at the age of 3, then it really would not surprise that those Biblical Prophets who had 700 wives for instance, had many very young “teenage” girls before as their wives.

It would not also come as a surprise that if they too had wives that were younger than Mary when she got pregnant, and younger than Aisha when she got married.

Since there are so many wives that those Prophets married (hundreds of wives), then how would anyone know that they didn’t marry young women as Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did with his marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her)?

Did their act of marrying young girls disqualify the Biblical Prophets (peace be upon them all) from being true Prophets of God?

‘Yes’ or ‘No’?

If the answer is ‘No’, then why are the detractors of Islam so quick and eager to disqualify Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) just based on his marriage to Aisha (ra)?

I feel very strongly about child abuse and there is no excuse whatsoever for Mohammad to have sex with a nine year old child. He was 53 years old and had sex with a nine-year old, small enough to be his granddaughter.

The man was not right especially if you want to elevate him into a prophet. He should show Muslims good example and definitely not to condone pedophilia.

I just found out that Islam permits old men molesting babies – by rubbing their genitals against the baby’s thigh to achieve sexual gratification.

I can only say, how bad the Old Testaments prophets were, none of them did these; none had sex with a nine year-old. So this put Mohammad as the odd man out, a man with a pervert teaching. Teaching which did not come from God.

 

[hamba2han]

The Prophets (peace be upon them all) were all good in the eyes of their Lord and Creator.

To say otherwise would be totally illogical because it would be the same as saying that God is not Omniscient about His creations.

Putting aside the question of whether or not the Biblical Prophets (pbuta) suffered moments of moral weakness, the fact of the matter is that there is NOTHING that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did which contradicts the teachings and actions of the earlier Prophets.

Those who are eager to disqualify the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from being a true Prophet of God based merely on “moral” grounds really do not have any leg to stand on.

It is most imperative that the creations leave the definition and measurement of ‘morality’ solely to the discretion of the Creator because it is only He who has the right to determine what is morally right or wrong.

 

[josie_L]

The Prophets (peace be upon them all) were all good in the eyes of their Lord and Creator.

To say otherwise would be totally illogical because it would be the same as saying that God is not Omniscient about His creations.

Putting aside the question of whether or not the Biblical Prophets (pbuta) suffered moments of moral weakness, the fact of the matter is that there is NOTHING that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did which contradicts the teachings and actions of the earlier Prophets.

Those who are eager to disqualify the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from being a true Prophet of God based merely on “moral” grounds really do not have any leg to stand on.

It is most imperative that the creations leave the definition and measurement of ‘morality’ solely to the discretion of the Creator because it is only He who has the right to determine what is morally right or wrong.

Yes, God does have the right to determine what is morally right or wrong, but Mohammed didn’t. Jesus was quite clear about the sanctity of marriage (a union of one man and one woman, not multiple), until Mohammed came along and changed that. Just another reason not to believe that Mohammed was a true prophet.

Do you want to know what Jesus said about abusing the innocence of children:

“And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

Matthew 18:5-6.

Mohammed caused Aisha, a little one, to sin.

 

[GraceDK]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

It’s enough for the God fearing Muslims that God praised Muhammed (pbuh) & gave him the certificate of the high moral character. We don’t need any certificate from any non-Muslim , let him/her be the king/ Queen of this world.

)

This is why you are potentially dangerous. Because you do not question, you only submit. If someonbe appears powerful enough for you then you will say to that person: “You define what is just and I submit”… even if his injustice is crying to heaven.

It’s like the nazis who killed the Jews in the chambers by the millions and later said: “I am not guilty, I was only obeying command from the leader”.

But sorry. You will be judged by your actions and beliefs because its your responsibilty. You have a conscience and an intellect.

If the devil would win over good, would you also follow him?
Probably, because you dare not use your conscience to test if his morality is good or not, and if others do, you say they shouldn’t.

You really are in darkness.

 

[GraceDK]

Yes, God does have the right to determine what is morally right or wrong, but Mohammed didn’t. Jesus was quite clear about the sanctity of marriage (a union of one man and one woman, not multiple), until Mohammed came along and changed that. Just another reason not to believe that Mohammed was a true prophet.

Do you want to know what Jesus said about abusing the innocence of children:

“And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

Matthew 18:5-6.

Mohammed caused Aisha, a little one, to sin.

Just to make clear what Josie means here.
Aisha did not sin. She was sexually abused. Thats what its called when grown men sleep with children. A child that young is not big enough to protest or know whats going on.
The fault was all on Muhammad side. He comitted a grave sin and continued this behaviour unrepentant throughout his life.

His sin was deception,leading people astray and causing despair and sinful behaviour in all those who follow his example through violence, polygami or marrying children-

 

[hamba2han]

The real question that needs to be asked here is:

Are Christians okay with all of the Biblical Prophets’ actions?

And judging from the posts on this thread, it is just so obvious that the answer is a most emphatic ‘No’.

Throughout the course of human history, for some bizarre unexplained reason, Almighty God apparently saw it fit to send individuals with weak morals as His Prophets in order for them to effectively teach and guide the rest of His creations about proper worship and morals.

 

[josie_L]

Just to make clear what Josie means here.
Aisha did not sin. She was sexually abused. Thats what its called when grown men sleep with children. A child that young is not big enough to protest or know whats going on.
The fault was all on Muhammad side. He comitted a grave sin and continued this behaviour unrepentant throughout his life.

His sin was deception,leading people astray and causing despair and sinful behaviour in all those who follow his example through violence, polygami or marrying children-

Yes, my point was she was forced into sin (as a result of Mohammed’s abuse of her). She was entirely blameless.

 

[josie_L]

The real question that needs to be asked here is:

Are Christians okay with all of the Biblical Prophets’ actions?

And judging from the posts on this thread, it is just so obvious that the answer is a most emphatic ‘No’.

Throughout the course of human history, for some bizarre unexplained reason, Almighty God apparently saw it fit to send individuals with weak morals as His Prophets in order for them to effectively teach and guide the rest of His creations about proper worship and morals.

Christians are under a new covenant with Christ, the only sinless prophet/priest/Godman there ever was.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

This is why you are potentially dangerous. Because you do not question, you only submit.

I submitted to God Almigthy . If Christians don’t like it , I have no choice , sorry.

It’s like the nazis who killed the Jews in the chambers by the millions and later said: “I am not guilty, I was only obeying command from the leader”.

And who was the leader ? Hitler ? He was a Christian . Does his holy book or Lord told him to kill Jews including kids ? I guess , ans is no . So , what’s your point ?

You will be judged by your actions and beliefs because its your responsibilty. You have a conscience and an intellect.

yap . My conscience tells me to obey God , not to condemn any lawful marriage in a nasty language & not to approve unethical affairs in the name of freedom .

If the devil would win over good, would you also follow him?

God Willing -no . Muslims offer this prayer to God in their 5 times daily prayers & other time also : I seek refuge in God from the devil , cursed , the rejected one.

.

You really are in darkness.

 

[josie_L]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

I submitted to God Almigthy . If Christians don’t like it , I have no choice , sorry.

The problem is you are not submitting to God Almighty, but Mohammed. And yes, you do have a choice. I’m sorry you can’t see that.

And who was the leader ? Hitler ? He was a Christian . Does his holy book or Lord told him to kill Jews including kids ? I guess , ans is no . So , what’s your point ?

Hitler was not a Christian, in any sense of the word, he was a megalomaniac who had no love for Christ and all that he stood for. For you to even suggest that Hitler was a Christian when in reality he was an atheist is ridiculous.

yap . My conscience tells me to obey God , not to condemn any lawful marriage in a nasty language & not to approve unethical affairs in the name of freedom .

Again, you presume to think that you are following God’s ways when you are not, either Christianity is completely false or else Islam is. As it is now you cannot accept Jesus has a prophet while all the while rejecting everything he had to say that is not in conformity with Mohammed. Claiming the Bible is corrupted when I believe the Koran states no such thing is dishonest of Muslims. There are too many inconsistencies between Christianity and Muslims as to rightfully see a link between them. Jesus is all that was good and holy and Mohammed was not. God does not play russian roulette with our souls. He would be clear as to what was or isn’t sin. And there would be no ambiguity whatsoever in his established Word. God is perfect in every sense, that is, He does not make mistakes. And He did not make any with Jesus, his only begotten son.

God Willing -no . Muslims offer this prayer to God in their 5 times daily prayers & other time also : I seek refuge in God from the devil , cursed , the rejected one.

I can pray at any time of the day, all the time if I wish. And I also seek refuge in God because I wish to be in full conformity with his commandments, but your commandments and mine are not the same.

indeed.

 

[dzheremi]

I’ve posted this before, but since Muslim Woman apparently has an embarrassingly short memory and an unhealthy fixation with Nazis, I see it is necessary to post it again.

Here is a quote from your rotten archetye of a Christian leader, Muslim Woman:

** “The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness …”** (Speer, Albert (2003), Inside the Third Reich, Weidenfeld & Nicolson History)

Hitler may have been Christian by default (shockingly, Germany was not exactly a hotbed of diversity back then…), but it appears that he found another religious ideology far preferrable to Christianity. Maybe you should think about why that is instead of posting more anti-Christian garbage that makes no sense at all.

 

[Daanyaal]

Hi,

Islam is always about rights, never is it permissible to take advantage of others.

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will: and you should not treat them with harshness…( Surah Nisa: V 19).

3 lessons we can learn from this verse.

1. You cannot take their inheritance (wealth)
2. You cannot marry them without their permisssion
3. They have to be old enough for the age of consent- meaning a man can only marry a woman not a girl. Moreover a woman meaning she is old enough to have children and mature enough to make decisions.

Now Aisha herself was the one who told us of her marrige to Prophet Muhammad pbuh.
In a hadeeth (saying) by Aisha she talks of the first time she was approached for marrige to the Prophet Muhammad by her parents. She tells us how the Prophet himself rejected the marrige proposal as he felt she was not mature enough to make a descision.

Now we have to remember that the 9 year old of Muhammad’s time was a Woman, she was physically able to have children and was mature mentally. On the other hand a 9 year old of today does not have the same physical and mental structure, if they did we would not be discussing this issue. Therefore in today’s society a man can not marry a 6 year old and consummate at 9 as she would not have developed the correct physical and mental attributes for marrige.

Another thing why did the Christians, Jews and pagans of Arabia not question his marrige to Aisha? …because it was not considered immoral in those times. Aisha was a woman.

Moreover Aisha’s sayings on the Prophet Muhammad show a genuine love between them she never uttered bad word about him. In addition when the Prophet Muhmmad pbuh passed away she never remarried.

Hope this helps

sorry for my bad english- typing in a rush.

 

[dzheremi]

Now we have to remember that the 9 year old of Muhammad’s time was a Woman, she was physically able to have children and was mature mentally. On the other hand a 9 year old of today does not have the same physical and mental structure, if they did we would not be discussing this issue. Therefore in today’s society a man can not marry a 6 year old and consummate at 9 as she would not have developed the correct physical and mental attributes for marrige.

On what basis do make these statements as to the mental maturity of 9 year olds in 7th century Arabia? I have heard several times Muslim apologists claiming that girls in Arabia at that time reached physical maturity much earlier than today. Fine, we can take that to be true, but what does that have to do with mental maturity?

Another thing why did the Christians, Jews and pagans of Arabia not question his marrige to Aisha? …because it was not considered immoral in those times. Aisha was a woman.

Irrelevant. Jews and Christians of 7th century Arabia are not our models of ideal behavior as Muhammad is for Muslims (and as they claim he is for everyone). Even if Muhammad’s behavior was perfectly normal back then, it is not now, so what now of your eternally righteous prophet?

Moreover Aisha’s sayings on the Prophet Muhammad show a genuine love between them she never uttered bad word about him. In addition when the Prophet Muhmmad pbuh passed away she never remarried.

Weren’t people forbidden from marrying his wives after his death?

 

[josie_L]

And who was the leader ? Hitler ? He was a Christian . Does his holy book or Lord told him to kill Jews including kids ? I guess , ans is no . So , what’s your point ?

"Rosenberg (the official ideologist of the Nazi party) drew up the program for the “National Reich Church”, which included:

• The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes, Bibles and pictures of saints.
• On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf and to the left of the altar a sword.
• On the day of its foundation, the Christian cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals, and chapels . . . and must be superceded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika."

A hymn written for the new faith included the stanza: "The time of the Cross has gone now, The sun-wheel (the swastika) shall arise, . . . "

Also, Martin Bormann, Hitler’s deputy Fuhrer said this to Rosenberg:

“The churches cannot be conquered by a compromise between National Socialism and Christian teachings, but only through a new ideology whose coming you yourself announced in your writings.”

He exhorted Rosenberg to “to abolish religious services in the schools, confiscate religious property, circulate anti religious material to the soldiers, and close down Christian periodicals and theological faculties.” "For it was clear to him that the Christian churches stood in the way of Nazism and had to be “conquered”.

So, what was it that you were saying about Hitler being Christian, Muslim woman?

Taken from the book: “Salvation is from the Jews” by Roy Shoeman.