Are Muslims saved?

[bjcros87]

catsrus:

Who are any of us to decide who is and is not “saved”? The ultimate judgement belongs to God. He is the one looking at hearts. We should never presume to know the mind of God as His thoughts are not ours. All that we can know is that the path is narrow - not who is on that path.
Should we not attend to our own salvation with an eye to loving our brothers (and all that love entails), no matter who they may be?
Just my :twocents: .

I understand what you are saying. I hope I haven’t claimed to know what anyone believes in their heart. If I have I didn’t mean to. I was speaking about the beliefs of those religions. I was making general statements about the beliefs of those faiths rather than about specific people. You are right only God knows what is on peoples hearts. However, I think I have stood by this throughout these chat rooms. Jesus Christ is the one and only way.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I have personally worked with some Muslims at Lucent Technologies, who helped design and implement telecommunications including the Internet.

Thank you, Muslims, Hindi, Atheists, Agnostics, Christians, and all the other people who have built my house, invented air conditioning, invented and built this computer, built the chair and table, delivered electric power to run the computer and the air conditioning, and provided Internet service.

You did this all so that I may share my Catholic faith with others all over the world, either in nearly real-time, or at any schedule I want 24 hours a day.

If you did it for some other reason, then the joke’s on you!

Alan

 

[rwoehmke]

bjcros87:

However, I think I have stood by this throughout these chat rooms. Jesus Christ is the one and only way.

Iesus Dominus bears this fact out as absolutely correct. It also says that the merits of Christ’s death are mediated through the Church. The rub for many comes when they fail to recognize that one does not have to be a card carrying Roman Catholic to receive those benefits. The fact that people of good will being able to gain salvation recognizes that in some way they receive these benefits of the death of Christ which flows through the Church even when they do not explicitly recognize either Christ or His Church. Unlike the evangelicals and others, the Church does not teach that one has to explicitly know Jesus to be saved. This would appear to be a good example of how the understanding of dogma and doctrine can develop over the years. The doctrine hasn’t changed, but the Church’s understanding of it has.That does not mean, as some might decide, that any other religion or church possesses the fulness of the Faith as found in the Catholic Church.

 

[thessalonian]

A few bible characters to consider. First the three wise men, likely pagans, but the spirit of God brought them to the place of the Christ Child. The Jews themselves were not open enough to the spirit of God and his word given to them to figure this out.

The good samaritan. Jesus holds this man up as an example of how the disciples are to treat their fellow man. Yet who are the Samaritans. They were a product of the captivity of the Northern Captivity by the Assyrians. They came about from Jews intermarrying with the Assyrians. Were they Jew’s or Christians? Nope. In fact they were essentially pagans. They believed in the God of Israel but only as one God among many. They did not know God in his fullness. Yet Jesus is hardly condemnatory of this Samaritan man and uses him as an example of behavior.

Cornelius, Acts 10, 11. Now Cornelius was not a Christian or a Jew either. I am sure he did not know all the ins and outs of the trinity. But he worshipped one God. It seems he may have been influenced by the Jews around him. Yet before he bacame a follower of Christ by divine providence bringing Peter to his door the scriptures tell us he was “a righteous and God-fearing man”. Now do the righteous and God fearing go to hell. Would Cornelius have been among the damned if he died before Peter came to him and brought him the truth about Christ? I don’t think we can say with definite certainty he would have. Quite the contrary. Of course Peter brought salvatoin to him. For he brought Christ whom Cornelius eventually had to come to terms with before entering heaven. Quite clearly Cornelius would have accepted Christ at death if he had come face to face with him. Yet it was important for Cornelius to be converted because life is a trial and all need the grace of Christ to continue down the path of faith in the one true God.

Job was not a Jew either. Yet the spirit of God quite clearly touched him. Bringing to him truth faith in a God I am sure he did not completely understand.

No I think I will leave the judgement of these four and anyone else who is not Christian or Jew up to God. Yet I most certainly will not deny them Christ.

Blessings

 

[kmager]

no , muslims are not saved–they reject Jesus–if they are invincibly ignorant or their ignorance reduces their sin(of not entering the Church) to venial and they have no other mortal sins on their souls when the die, then they can be saved-- it is normatively(noticei said normnativey) necessary for every single human being, in order to b saved, to covert to the Catholic Faith to be saved–

 

[Ghosty]

Where do you get you information? Jews don’t recognize Christianity. We are blasphemers to them. We claim that there is one God in three persons. They claim there is one God. It isn’t the same thing. They worship the basic idea of the same God but we have conflicting views. The Jews believe that they are the choosen people, and as such they are the ones who are saved. Gentiles are out of the mix. They also see Jesus as a man and criminal.

From my Orthodox Jewish friends. They don’t believe we’re RIGHT, but they believe that we do indeed worship the same God. All they ask is that Gentiles uphold the Noahide Laws, which Christians do by default, so we’re not in any jeopardy as Gentiles. They believe that when the real Messiah comes, we will be saved; they don’t generally fault us for believing in a “false Messiah”. Jews who become Christian, on the other hand, are ostracized for “rejecting” Judaism. Gentiles didn’t start as Jews, so we don’t have the same expectations. It’s very similar to the Church’s view of apostacy, actually. Nearly identical, in fact.

 

[coralewisjr]

I say let’s forget about the status of Muslims’ souls and pray for them: townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/mc20050520.shtml
In stories I’ve read about converts to Christianity from Islam, the Muslims have been very violent to the converts.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne

 

[A.Pelliccio]

We are of supernatural religion because we have both divine revelation and the sanctifying grace from the Lord. With the exception of the Jews, all other religions are natural religions. These natural religions have some “truths” (Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism). The Jews are a semi - supernatural religion because they both of divine revelation and sanctifying grace but theirs is incomplete.

Moslems are not saved, because they do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their God, savior, and Lord. They actually deny him as the lord. It states in the Koran that God had no son. So in the short sense, both biblically, theologically(from Holy Mother church), and historically, the Moslems are not saved.

PS: your absolutley right about converts. My friend whos a coptic christain (pray for his people to return home, because the are truely devout and orthodox.), had his sister kidnapped and brain washed by moslems in Egypt. His father had to violenty remove her from her new home in Alexandria a few years back.

Anthony

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Ghosty:

From my Orthodox Jewish friends. They don’t believe we’re RIGHT, but they believe that we do indeed worship the same God. All they ask is that Gentiles uphold the Noahide Laws, which Christians do by default, so we’re not in any jeopardy as Gentiles. They believe that when the real Messiah comes, we will be saved; they don’t generally fault us for believing in a “false Messiah”. Jews who become Christian, on the other hand, are ostracized for “rejecting” Judaism. Gentiles didn’t start as Jews, so we don’t have the same expectations. It’s very similar to the Church’s view of apostacy, actually. Nearly identical, in fact.

You are correct, Ghosty. Most Jews I’ve known even refer to Christians as “Christian brethren.” Most, not all.

 

[Coptic]

PS: your absolutley right about converts. My friend whos a coptic christain (pray for his people to return home, because the are truely devout and orthodox.), had his sister kidnapped and brain washed by moslems in Egypt. His father had to violenty remove her from her new home in Alexandria a few years back.

That is not an uncommon occurence. Muslims kidnap young girls and rape them and then brainwash them into thinking their family won’t want them anymore because they are “defiled”. They also threaten to harm her family and thus coerce(sp?) her into converting. It’s such a sad thing to hear about.

The only mediator between man and God is Jesus Christ. Belief in Him is the bare minimum requirement for salvation. Muslims do not meet that requirement.

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[TNT]

bjcros:

I am a protestant and here is my position.
Anyone who doesn’t accept Jesus is outside of Salvation. Not even the Muslims or Jews who reject Jesus are saved.
Muslims reject Jesus as God and don’t accept his sacrifice, as do some Jews. Therefore, they are outside the promise for Salvation. They don’t worship the same God, neither do the Orthodox Jews. Because they don’t recognize the trinity.
Muslims believe that we are condemned.
The Jews think that we are condemned.
Catholics say that everyone is condemned unless we turn to the Catholic Church.
I think that anyone who rejects Jesus is condemned.

HARRAH! a tradtional Catholic discourse from a protestant!

ps
Pope Eugene’s Bull is not BS. It is excathedra as it repeats the perennial Ordinary and Extra ordinary MAgisterium of the Roman Catholic Church. Period. Like it or not.

Now, the Muslims are infidels and out of the way of salvation—OBJECTIVELY.
The dogmas of the Faith teach - OBJECTIVELY.

Subjectively, ie about any individual soul at any moment, only God knows. God resreves this knowledge to Himself BECAUSE, HE does not want us to lose the OBJECTIVE truth of Revelation in the muddy water of SUBJECTIVITY.
Also known as misplaced sentimentality.