Are one nights stands and premarital sex within a relationship equally immoral?

[fbl9]

1. 
   *]one night stand = fornication providing neither is married. Then it is adultery
   *]sex is between two people who have been in a committed relationship for a long time (1+ years) = fornication
   
   sex outside of marriage is fornication and a mortal sin. .

1. 
   As is adultry, married people having sex outside the marital act.

 

[freethinker83]

The person that has a “one night stand” can be deeply remorseful for that action

I agree with that. I had a one night stand once in college and regretted it almost immediately.

My moral views are different from yours so I never regretted sexual acts outside of marriage within the confines of a relationship.

 

[Della]

Can you cite this please? I admit to being rusty in my readings but I fail to recall when Jesus told Pilate that his sin was lesser, I only recall Pilate himself just claiming that he “washed his hands” of this issue.

John 19:11 Jesus answered [Pilate], “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.”

Some commentaries say Jesus was referring only to Judas as the “he who delivered me ot you” and others say the Sanhedrin. It’s a rather obscure bit of dialog but important to our discussion. Freethinker wanted to know if there is any difference between the one scenario and the other regarding sexual sin. The Church teaches there are varying degrees of culpability when we commit any sin but mortal sins are still mortal whether or not the ones committing them know it or not. God judges such persons based on their knowledge, their willingness to commit the sin, and if they did it knowing full well what they were doing. Pilate had less knowledge and less will than those who turned Jesus over to him, so Pilate’s sin carried a lesser degree of guilt.

 

[SteveGC]

I suppose it is debatable which is more immoral than the other. Equality may or may not exist.

But what *does *exist is that both are gravely sinful.

Hence, assuming knowledge and deliberate intent, and assuming no repentance from the offenders unto death, the only reason to entertain the notion of moral equivalence among the two acts would be to ponder which act garners the most punishment in Hell.

 

[Della]

I suppose it is debatable which is more immoral than the other. Equality may or may not exist.

But what *does *exist is that both are gravely sinful.

Hence, assuming knowledge and deliberate intent, and assuming no repentance from the offenders unto death, the only reason to entertain the notion of moral equivalence among the two acts would be to ponder which act garners the most punishment in Hell.

 

[ahs]

My take on it.

Both instances would be ipso facto fornication, and hence grave matter. Intent really doesn’t matter. What matters is knowledge of sin, and deliberate acting on sin.

So long as the couple in each scenario knows the act is gravely sinful, and deliberately performs the act, all in question would be guilty of mortal sin.

Thus, equally immoral, equally mortal sin.

Willing to hear why this take on it is off-base.

Fornication is fornication. Both are grave sins that if committed with knowledge and free will are mortal.

I suppose it is debatable which is more immoral than the other. Equality may or may not exist.

But what *does *exist is that both are gravely sinful.

Hence, assuming knowledge and deliberate intent, and assuming no repentance from the offenders unto death, the only reason to entertain the notion of moral equivalence among the two acts would be to ponder which act garners the most punishment in Hell.

 

[Marybeloved]

I agree with that. I had a one night stand once in college and regretted it almost immediately.

My moral views are different from yours so I never regretted sexual acts outside of marriage within the confines of a relationship.

This is quite funny in a strange way, because, from the Catholic view-point, the non-marital relationship sex would be much more dangerous for you than the one night stand which you deeply regretted and presumably never did again.

That’s because one might have been repented for while another is persisted in without any remorse. This makes the one night stands that are still clearly regarded as sinful less dangerous than the sex in a non-marital relationship, whose sinfulness has been artificially scraped off by modern society.

 

[vera_dicere]

Depends on the people involved in each act.

Are we talkign about secular, atheististic, or even liberal Protestants here? Or are we talking about Catholics who know the teachings?

If they’re ignorant then both sins are lesser, and may not be fully mortal and full knowledge would be questionable.

However, if the couple in the relationship are Catholic then they are committing a worse sin - if they truly loved each other they’d wait till they were married and then have sex. Instead they’re continunally damaging each other’s souls and each other’s chances to get into heaven, all the while committing the sins of scandal, probably contraception, and are willfully flouting God’s law, justifying it to themselves as “okay cos we love each other xxooxx”. Whereas the one night stand scenario involves individuals of an obviously lesser moral standing, probably a good lot of booze and the possibility of repetenance when they sober up and regret their action.

So I submit that those in the relationship are in worse trouble than the people comitting a random, one off act of shaggery.

 

[freethinker83]

This is quite funny in a strange way, because, from the Catholic view-point, the non-marital relationship sex would be much more dangerous for you than the one night stand which you deeply regretted and presumably never did again.

That’s because one might have been repented for while another is persisted in without any remorse. This makes the one night stands that are still clearly regarded as sinful less dangerous than the sex in a non-marital relationship, whose sinfulness has been artificially scraped off by modern society.

This is an interesting take on it. I don’t personally agree with you, but I understand how it makes sense from your point of view. This is something I wouldn’t have thought of but is exactly the type of answer I was looking for to gain perspective, so thank you.

Until I joined this forum a year ago I wasn’t even familiar with the concept of mortal vs venial sins, etc. I enjoy learning about your belief system and how it would be applied to real-world scenerios.

 

[freethinker83]

Depends on the people involved in each act.

Are we talkign about secular, atheististic, or even liberal Protestants here? Or are we talking about Catholics who know the teachings?

If they’re ignorant then both sins are lesser, and may not be fully mortal and full knowledge would be questionable.

However, if the couple in the relationship are Catholic then they are committing a worse sin - if they truly loved each other they’d wait till they were married and then have sex. Instead they’re continunally damaging each other’s souls and each other’s chances to get into heaven, all the while committing the sins of scandal, probably contraception, and are willfully flouting God’s law, justifying it to themselves as “okay cos we love each other xxooxx”. Whereas the one night stand scenario involves individuals of an obviously lesser moral standing, probably a good lot of booze and the possibility of repetenance when they sober up and regret their action.

So I submit that those in the relationship are in worse trouble than the people comitting a random, one off act of shaggery.

Thank you. To answer your question I was looking for a Catholic perspective which you gave me.

To clarify, are you saying that while it wouldn’t be okay for a Catholic it would be okay for me because I don’t follow your belief system?

 

[fbl9]

Thank you. To answer your question I was looking for a Catholic perspective which you gave me.

To clarify, are you saying that while it wouldn’t be okay for a Catholic it would be okay for me because I don’t follow your belief system?

No it is still not okay for you to do this because it is still a sin.
Let me ask this, knowing now that these activities are a sin are you going to continue in them? If yes then you are fully committing mortal sin because you know have the knowledge that such actions are sinful.
not saying you are doing such things using you as an example persay.

 

[freethinker83]

No it is still not okay for you to do this because it is still a sin.
Let me ask this, knowing now that these activities are a sin are you going to continue in them? If yes then you are fully committing mortal sin because you know have the knowledge that such actions are sinful.
not saying you are doing such things using you as an example persay.

At the time I was doing those things (now married) I was aware that Christians considered them a sin, but I do not believe in God and therefore didn’t have any moral objection to it.

 

[fbl9]

Depends on the people involved in each act.

Are we talkign about secular, atheististic, or even liberal Protestants here? Or are we talking about Catholics who know the teachings?

**If they’re ignorant then both sins are lesser, and may not be fully mortal and full knowledge would be questionable. **However, if the couple in the relationship are Catholic then they are committing a worse sin - if they truly loved each other they’d wait till they were married and then have sex. Instead they’re continunally damaging each other’s souls and each other’s chances to get into heaven, all the while committing the sins of scandal, probably contraception, and are willfully flouting God’s law, justifying it to themselves as “okay cos we love each other xxooxx”. Whereas the one night stand scenario involves individuals of an obviously lesser moral standing, probably a good lot of booze and the possibility of repetenance when they sober up and regret their action.

So I submit that those in the relationship are in worse trouble than the people comitting a random, one off act of shaggery.

At the time I was doing those things (now married) I was aware that Christians considered them a sin, but I do not believe in God and therefore didn’t have any moral objection to it.

So thus commiting these act while knowing they were against christian morals one commits mortal sin.
Kinda like if i am in another country i can’t say thier laws don’t apply to me cause i am not from that country.

 

[CleansedByMercy]

Is it not, in a manner, irrelevant to debate which is less moral? If grave matter, sufficient knowledge (reflection) and deliberate consent are present in both situations by both persons respectively, then a mortal sin is committed. As to whether or not one is more immoral or not, from a human’s perspective, seems to be irrelevant because supposedly they both result in the same consequence…

 

[WetCatechumen]

Some comments:

Yes, any mortal sin will send you equally to hell. But that’s not what’s being debated - adultery is very bad for your soul, and it will send you to hell, but murder is far, far worse. That’s apparent.

Hence, it’s pointless to just say, “They’re both mortal sins and leave it at that!”

One of my friend’s best friends is a Catholic woman and she had premarital sex with her boyfriend (also Catholic) one time in a moment of weakness. They were immediately repentant and went to confession. She got pregnant (they were engaged at the time anyway) and now they are happily married.

Juxtapose this with other friends of mine who go out and pick up women or get picked up and have intercourse with strangers a single time.

Clearly, one of these is less damaging to all the people involved and their souls.

Also, is it more damaging to be involved in semi-marriage in which one is having pre-marital sex, or to be having pre-marital sex with strangers? I think that the negligence is grosser in the case of people who do not know each other who have intercourse unexpectedly.

Now, if we’re talking about a person who, one time, has a one night stand, versus someone who is living in a sinful relationship, then yeah, the open, unrepentant fornication is worse for you and for your soul.

Now, please don’t anyone read this and say, “How can one mortal sin be worse for your soul than the other?” Because of the temporal penalty for sin it causes, which must be expiated in purgatory.

 

[A_G]

Scenerios such as adultery, one night stands, prostitution, etc… are immoral. They are all big sins.

However, if 2 people are engaged to be married, in a serious relationship etc… I honestly do not see it as wrong. Yes, I believe they should be married first, but we live in such a world today that if this scenerio was the only one happening, then we should be happy.

 

[Charybdis]

In my view, it does not matter whether or not you know the person or are having a relationship with them. Premarital sex is premarital sex. Period.

Yes, there are different degrees of culpability, but whether you know the person or not should not matter. I even would go so far as to say that the more you know the person and you still do these things with them, that is worse than the one night stand.

The main difference is the number of times you are committing the sin. In a one night stand, if that’s all you ever do, then you’ve just done it once. In a committed relationship, you are committing the sin over and over again and compounding it with scandal and contraception over and over again. That is seriously serious…

 

[Bezant]

I see them as equally immoral, although not as equally sensible. Depending on the situation for either premarital sex within a relationship and casual sex, I think there can be more or less room for accountability.

 

[steve_b]

As is adultry, married people having sex outside the marital act.

True. I thought I made that clear

1. 
   *]one night stand = fornication providing neither is married. ***Then it is adultery ***
   *]sex is between two people who have been in a committed relationship for a long time (1+ years) = fornication
   
   sex outside of marriage is fornication and a mortal sin. As is adultery, married people having sex with someone not their spouse.

 

[freethinker83]

The main difference is the number of times you are committing the sin. In a one night stand, if that’s all you ever do, then you’ve just done it once. In a committed relationship, you are committing the sin over and over again and compounding it with scandal and contraception over and over again. That is seriously serious…

Is marital sex with contraception just as bad as premarital sex with contraception?

Is marital sex with contraception better or worse than premarital sex without contraception?