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vsedriver
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it’s not about how the religion fits us. We should conform to the faith as taught to use by Christ through his Apostles and their successors.
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ConstantLearner
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I do not believe Jesus was the messiah. Most of the world does not (Buddhists. Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc.). I do not think all non-Christians will be going to hell and neither does the Catholic church.
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ConstantLearner
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I believe every person should definitely adhere to the faith he or she believes in as long as that faith doesn’t involve harming any of G-d’s creation, so in that I agree with you. If someone truly believes in the Catholic faith, he or she should adhere to it.
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Shakuhachi
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What if one highly doubts or even cannot believe that “the Catholic Church is the one true church”?
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Start
Guest
It depends on if this is an actual impossibility or not.
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chessnerd321
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I think the only correct answer is “we don’t know”. But we also know that all salvation comes through Jesus and his church, so the closer someone is to the church the more sure of their salvation we are. For example, we would never cannonize a Buddhist. Probably not even a Protestant.
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Sophie111
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How do you define “Church” or “Catholic” ?
It does not seem to involve sacramental baptism which I find a little contradictory.
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TULIPed
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True. Although most of the non-Christian world thinks Jesus was an extraordinary man at least, and a prophet and world changing man at most (Islam for example). Not too shabby for an itinerant carpenter who wandered around Palestine doing magic tricks with a bunch of misfits and claimed to be God (oh - and whose followers claim he’s the only guy in history who rose from the dead).
As a finale, the whole world ultimately agrees to divide all of history into 2 parts - based on one crazy, homeless dude’s birthday. Now that I think about it, maybe, a couple of thousand years from now, the whole world will decide Willie Nelson was an extraordinary prophet…but I doubt it.
As a finale, the whole world ultimately agrees to divide all of history into 2 parts - based on one crazy, homeless dude’s birthday. Now that I think about it, maybe, a couple of thousand years from now, the whole world will decide Willie Nelson was an extraordinary prophet…but I doubt it.
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ConstantLearner
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I don’t think you should canonize a Buddhist, Protestant, or any non-Catholic. I think the Catholic church should stick to canonizing Catholics.
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buffalo
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If one finds themselves in heaven, they will be Catholic, a member of the Communion of Saints and it will be by the One, Holy. Catholic and Apostolic Church Jesus founded for that very reason.
How exactly? Only God really know in each case.
How exactly? Only God really know in each case.
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ConstantLearner
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I am not a Christian and do not accept Jesus as the messiah, but I do believe he lived and taught, though I don’t consider him a prophet. By Christianity’s own reasoning, the Age of Prophecy was over with Jesus’ birth. I think he was a very kind and loving man, and I have great respect for him.
Pharaoh’s magicians were accomplished as well, and I don’t think anyone considers them divine.
One of the problems with the alleged resurrection of Jesus is that only his followers claim it happened. If he was so extraordinary, you’d think someone other than those invested in him would have recorded those “magic acts,” yet they did not. Only that he existed.
The whole world doesn’t divide history into two parts. In my religion, the year is 5779. And, as a finale, Jesus was one of us.
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Start
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There’s more than just being Catholic that’s required to get to heaven and sometimes these things get mixed up.
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TULIPed
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Me as well, although he did say some strange things, no? Like: “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me.” Or: “Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up.” Or this: “I have not come to abolish (the law) but to fulfill it.” In fact, he said so many strange and controversial things, that the law at the time got quite upset with him.
And to my knowledge, none claimed to be divine. Jesus did precisely that. So did the Pharaohs - and other than our friend King Tut, who still goes on nationwide tours like a rock star, not many are remembered.
Exactly right. And somehow they persuaded enough people to believe that it happened that Christianity became the state religion of Rome. There are plenty of smart, nice guys who do magic around (Vegas is full of them), but not many of them end up overthrowing empires peacefully, literally change the world, call themselves God, and are still loved and admired by the vast majority of the world. Maybe he was just a lucky David Copperfield, but my bet is there was something more going on back then.
I’d be curious to see what happens at the DMV when you put your birthday down as the year 5749 (forgive me if I guessed wrong - I thought 30 was a diplomatic offering - it’s the new 20 anyway)
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Sophie111
Guest
Its an interesting phenomenon.
However if you go overseas to an Asian country and start questioning the first generation of new adherents to imported European religions (eg Christianity) you will quickly discover that many really dont understand the theological teachings but just go along with whatever is required so long as they can belong and enjoy the benefits of membership which are more real - eg material support, family/communal life, status for the officials, a meaning to their empoverished lives (pie in the sky when you die) etc.
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ConstantLearner
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Jews do use secular dating when dealing with the secular world.I’d be curious to see what happens at the DMV when you put your birthday down as the year 5749 (forgive me if I guessed wrong - I thought 30 was a diplomatic offering - it’s the new 20 anyway)
And you are close; I’ll be 34 in January.
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ConstantLearner
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I can understand why many Orientals don’t understand Western theology.
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buffalo
Guest
Jesus was a kind and loving man and a liar by your logic.I am not a Christian and do not accept Jesus as the messiah, but I do believe he lived and taught, though I don’t consider him a prophet. By Christianity’s own reasoning, the Age of Prophecy was over with Jesus’ birth. I think he was a very kind and loving man, and I have great respect for him.
Pharaoh’s magicians were accomplished as well, and I don’t think anyone considers them divine.
One of the problems with the alleged resurrection of Jesus is that only his followers claim it happened. If he was so extraordinary, you’d think someone other than those invested in him would have recorded those “magic acts,” yet they did not. Only that he existed.
The whole world doesn’t divide history into two parts. In my religion, the year is 5779. And, as a finale, Jesus was one of us.
Thousands saw Jesus after His resurrection.
St Paul persecuted Christians before He “saw the light”.
All the doubters had to do was produce a body. They never did.
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ConstantLearner
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No, a person is not lying if they genuinely believe what they say. If I honestly believe the bus leaves at 3:30 and tell someone so, and it really leaves at 3:00, I was mistaken, not lying. I know a woman who genuinely believes she is pregnant with a young celebrity’s child. She is not lying when she tells people that; she is under stress and confused. In reality, she has never been pregnant and never met said celebrity. Jesus’ own family believed he’d taken leave of his senses when he began his ministry.
Jesus’ followers said thousands saw him after his resurrection, yet no one but his followers can vouch for that. Given that he would be the ONLY person in the world to be resurrected from the dead, one would logically think this would be an event widely reported and written about even by those who did not follow Jesus, yet it was not.
Paul probably had epilepsy and he’d spent too much time in the hot sun. Again, an unsubstantiated claim, kind of like Ford’s against Kavanaugh, although in the case of Jesus and Paul there was no wrongdoing implied or stated on either side.
There are very good reasons why no body was produced, but I don’t think it’s in good taste to go into them here.
Jesus’ followers said thousands saw him after his resurrection, yet no one but his followers can vouch for that. Given that he would be the ONLY person in the world to be resurrected from the dead, one would logically think this would be an event widely reported and written about even by those who did not follow Jesus, yet it was not.
Paul probably had epilepsy and he’d spent too much time in the hot sun. Again, an unsubstantiated claim, kind of like Ford’s against Kavanaugh, although in the case of Jesus and Paul there was no wrongdoing implied or stated on either side.
There are very good reasons why no body was produced, but I don’t think it’s in good taste to go into them here.
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Sophie111
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Hmmn, we do not know this.
What we do know is that only one person (Paul who never saw Jesus between his Resurrection and Ascension) reported that Jesus appeared to “the 500”.
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ConstantLearner
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Thank you for the correction on Paul @Sophie111. I don’t believe Paul ever met Jesus prior to his crucifixion, so he probably wouldn’t have recognized him had he come face-to-face with him. I know I don’t recognize those I’ve never seen, and there were no photographs in the first century.
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