Are people born homosexual ?

[TimeEntrance]

RevDon,

You misunderstand something about the figurative athletic program of the Catholic Church. It was never one based upon the notions of democracy, political lobbying, or figurative fat bodies not wanting to train but sit around sipping pina coladas. youtube.com/watch?v=QVdhZwK7cS8

It was not even one established denying those within its training and Olympic camps would fall. Fall short. Finish the race late. Or even find themselves lost out in the forests and mountain ranges without compass.

Not that it doesn’t have its wine and cheer and its siestas.

But there was a time to train and a time to make merry.

You can’t be to tasking. You have to allow your athletes and charges rest. Even on so long a march. But you can’t pamper them to light or you have failed to condition them for game day, for the eventual battle ahead. Their enemy on that great day of battle will give them no quarter. Their enemy will attack them from every flank they can and exploit every weakness they have.

Vince Lombardi told the players of the Green Bay Packers when he took over the them as head coach and General Manager (they were the most losing team in the NFL at that time):

*“Gentleman, we will relentlessly pursue perfection knowing full well we will never attain it. Because in doing so we will achieve excellence.” *

The Church knows that no one will attain perfection. But it has set up a program that ranks it beside the former and legendary Kronks Gym of Detroit, and ranks it along Title Town in Green Bay, Wisconsin. You may sweat in the gym of Detroit or freeze on the tundra of Green Bay, but in the process you will have attained excellence.

The evidence? The stars and champions of the program. Like St. Bernadette, Padre Pio, and the many thousands more.

You say, "light burden, " and that may be true for when the Lord and Madonna offer reprieve. And they do on so long of journeys. I attest to that. But the history of the Church, and the examples of the ending of the Apostles and martyrs tells another truism: The path to glory is a road hard to take, a narrow road, but the path to destruction wide.

So, the socio-politics of homosexuality and gay marriage aside, the Church has to consider everything in light of the Catholic conception of the Holy Eucharist. And the Church understands itself as having an ancient enemy it was founded and commissioned to battle. An enemy so terrifying, so without empathy, that modern man prefers to not believe in him or his legions.

But I’ll leave you with a little advice from a Hollywood movie on exorcism from a character played by actor Anthony Hopkins: You be careful. Just because you don’t believe in the devil, it won’t protect you from him.

But you may recognize there are a lot of sinful and hateful people in Catholicism. I would agree with you. The only thing I can say is I try to look toward Jesus and the Holy Mother. The saints as well. Looking at too many Catholics would just get me too angry.

This clip of Al Panchino giving a speech in a football locker room captures my experience and views of life well. I have the hounds of hell inches from my neck, my jugular, all the time. And I can’t fight for long yards, heroic scales of length.

Pachino: youtube.com/watch?v=9ku3E7NPRuE

 

[Walcot]

Sexual attraction begins at an early age, with Satan determining the outcome. Satan controls the sexual urges and tempts with one gender or the other. Satan is like a behavioral psychologist who conditioned tendencies of erotic pleasure from one sex or the other. Thus, whether or not identical twins become homosexual will depend on behavioral learning the begins at a very early age.

To think of homosexuality in terms of environment or genetics is to ignore the subtle temptation of Satan.

No chance of any fun there then!!! Seriously, do you
a) believe Satan to be a being of some sort?
b) believe pleasure from sex to be some kind of sin, even then, between a conventional married couple - as you say Satan controls sexual urges?

 

[Robert_Sock]

The posting to which I was responding in the first instance stated that Catholics do not support Gay Marriage. The statistics prove otherwise.

Do you really believe that human sexuality is controlled by Satan?

Let me digress concerning Catholic teaching.
First, Catholics like to believe that Church teaching is immutable. That provides a sense of stability in a changing world. It’s not a bad idea; it’s just not correct according to Church history. There have been many instances when Church teaching was changed, to the credit of the Church leaders who risked being seen as inconsistent, even heretical. They used the same basis from the deposit of faith, but as a result of deepening knowledge and experience, arrived at a realization that a different path might be taken without being unfaithful to the roots of faith.

The Church’s teaching on homosexuality are based in two things: Sacred scripture and a long-standing tradition that holds homosexuality as an abomination and condemns those who practice it.

The Scriptures themselves are the record of how people heard God’s word over an extended period of time, how they found inspiration and direction in their relationship with God (and by extension, with other people and creation). The words were governed by their context, including language and circumstances. God was speaking to the needs of the prople. We give reverence to those words and continue to try to apply them to our relationships with God, others and creation. The Church’s task, in part, is to guide us in that task. The Great Commission states the purpose of the Church, and as long as there are those who may be converted, her task is left undone.

In accomplishing that task, it is the Church’s obligation to speak in such a way that the argument may be understood by those she is addressing. This is difficult, and requires that the form and means of communication be adapted to the comfort of the listener, not the speaker.

The scripture used in formulating Church teaching on the issues around homosexuality originate in Leviticus, written at a time when Israel was concerned about its very existence. Producing offspring (especially male) was crucial for defense. Maintenance of ethnic and religious purity were also essential. In writing down laws that upheld the life of the People Specially Chosen, they were convinced that God not only inspired them to create these laws, but that God insisted that they be obeyed. Hence some very harsh punishments for law-breakers. Radical means because the very existence of the people was at stake!

Today we cringe in revulsion when we see such punishments meted out by fundamentalist Islamists, yet they are enshrined in our holy books, too. There are many instances in which Christians have concluded that parts of the code of Leviticus need not be observed, much less enforced. Why do we feel obligated to selectively enforce some and not all?

Perhaps we feel so obliged because there are hints of proscription of homosexuality in Paul’s writing. Paul admits that his formation was in Pharisaical Judaism, so we can readily understand his affection for the Law. But he was among the leaders of the Christian community who held that old laws must be examined in light of new circumstances, especially in light of the inclusive teaching of Jesus. Surely James argued that kosher laws and circumcision were part of their tradition, written in black and white in their holy book. Surely James said that Gentiles were unclean sinners who ought best to be avoided. But in allowing the conversation to continue, the Church opened herself to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which might have otherwise been hooted down by calls of “Tradition!” Probably James went away grumbling about the Gentile agenda, and how influence had been bought by the wealthy God-fearers, and how Christianity would be ruined by it, but a major change had been accepted and aren’t we non-kosher Christians grateful?

Those who use the scriptures as an argument need to look carefully at the context of the scriptures as well as the words. What circumstance was the writer addressing? In what way was the writer using the language of the listeners to make the point God wanted to be made? How would those to whom the words were originally address understand the message?
There is plenty of first-class scholarship dealing with the usual scriptures called up in condemnation od homosexuality that calls into question the usual conclusions drawn by interpreters who are beginning from the second position: the tradition of condemning homosexuality. Is it possible that the reason for condemnation was not what persons who seek gay marriage want, but rather promiscuity and idol worship?
The Church needs to let go of the old perspective, go back to Scripture, the Holy Spirit and the life of Jesus to apply an understanding to a new situation. That’s being faithful to the Church’s mission.

Imagine showing a television to a lost tribe of people who have had no contact with the outside world. Now try explaining to them that the picture and sound of the television comes from broadcasting companies. The tribal people would probably look at you like you were nuts, insisting that the sound and picture were originating from within the television set itself.

Now, rethink where the prompting of inner voices come from; might it be that these promptings too are originating from afar, and not merely a product of our brain? The unconscious is heavily influenced by Satan!

It’s interesting to note that human beings make great television antennas. I do not think this is coincidental.

(I worked as a research psychologist at a think tank alongside the CIA and the Air Force, but I traded it all to become a devout Catholic. Inner voices abound from within me. When it comes to money and spiritual rewards, I’ll take the spiritual rewards anytime.)

 

[RevDon]

Reverend Don,

When was this great commission stated? What Church?

Matthew 28:19-20 is referred to as the Great Commission

 

[RevDon]

Reverend Don,

In dialogue on this CAF when you use “we” you don’t speak for the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church…you not be we.

I use “we” to refer to the people who are posting on this thread.

 

[Robert_Sock]

No chance of any fun there then!!! Seriously, do you
a) believe Satan to be a being of some sort?
b) believe pleasure from sex to be some kind of sin, even then, between a conventional married couple - as you say Satan controls sexual urges?

a) Satan is a spiritual being, capable of communicating with our unconscious.

b) No, sexual urges are not sinful, but Satan can tempt using sexual urges, with either gender as a target of inner fantasy. Again, this begins at an early age.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Imagine showing a television to a lost tribe of people who have had no contact with the outside world. Now try explaining to them that the picture and sound of the television comes from broadcasting companies. The tribal people would probably look at you like you were nuts, insisting that the sound and picture were originating from within the television set itself.

Now, rethink where the prompting of inner voices come from; might it be that these promptings too are originating from afar, and not merely a product of our brain? The unconscious is heavily influenced by Satan!

It’s interesting to note that human beings make great television antennas. I do not think this is coincidental.

(I worked as a research psychologist at a think tank alongside the CIA and the Air Force, but I traded it all to become a devout Catholic. Inner voices abound from within me. When it comes to money and spiritual rewards, I’ll take the spiritual rewards anytime.)

When I have an inner urge for food, I know where that comes from. It’s an appetite just like sex. Why a sexual appetite-- to ensure the propagation of the species, of course. Do you imagine animals breed because of Satanic urges? It’s as natural as scratching when you itch, but necessary to control because of the nature of reproduction and the responsibilities that go with it.

 

[CopticChristian]

Matthew 28:19-20 is referred to as the Great Commission

RevDon,

So, is it your opinion that we should go out and Baptize all adults and Babies so that through Baptism they may be regnerated and recieve the gifts of Faith/Hope/Charity and become members of the Church?

 

[CopticChristian]

I use “we” to refer to the people who are posting on this thread.

RevDon

Do you speak for all Christians, Athiests, Mormons and Muslims that post on this thread as “we”?

 

[CopticChristian]

see posting 175

RevDon,

I am old, I wear glasses, the colors are difficult to make sense out of, help me please…just list the changes
So I may know of what you speak…

 

[Robert_Sock]

When I have an inner urge for food, I know where that comes from. It’s an appetite just like sex. Why a sexual appetite-- to ensure the propagation of the species, of course. Do you imagine animals breed because of Satanic urges? It’s as natural as scratching when you itch, but necessary to control because of the nature of reproduction and the responsibilities that go with it.

What I getting at here is that Satan tempts us into being homosexual, heterosexual or masturbatory beginning at an early age. This explains why identical twins could vary considerably in respect to their sexual preferences.

 

[CopticChristian]

There are two assumptions that need to be addressed: first, that marriage is all about sex. That has been my experience of married life.
Second, too many people who participate in these discussions call up images of perverted, promiscuous sexual relations, perhaps recalling televised scenes of Gay Rights parades with their outlandish costumes. The only option the Church now offers is celibacy, which seems to me to offer a painful and lonely life. And in that regard, the Church repeatedly states that celibacy for her clergy is a special gift from God.

QUOTE]

RevDon,

I think the Church has had plenty to say about the many ways marriage contributes not only to the happiness, but also to the holiness of spouses.

 

[David_A]

Well, why do gay people want to get married?

Perhaps so they are not condemned to a life of loneliness?

 

[JamesCaruso]

What I getting at here is that Satan tempts us into being homosexual, heterosexual or masturbatory beginning at an early age. This explains why identical twins could vary considerably in respect to their sexual preferences.

The allure of sex is physical pleasure, It does not require Satan’s intervention, although it does not preclude it either. If a person finds homosexual sex repulsive, Satan will have a difficult time tempting them in that direction. Also, sexual preferences can be learned with or without satanic intervention. I’m sorry, but your argument for Satan’s determining sexual preference is just not convincing.

 

[JamesCaruso]

edwest2;10374155:

Well, why do gay people want to get married?

Perhaps so they are not condemned to a life of loneliness?

Apart from Christ, there is no happiness. One may be motivated by a longing for companionship, but it can only lead to unhappiness if it is not in Christ.

 

[epan]

Epan,

Where did I use the word Church?

Good enough. So, you now imply that the Catholic Church is divorced from Catholic Faith? Just how does that work, in your perception of the Church and of Catholic faith?

You are full of interesting implications.

Tell us more about the vast homosexual conspiracy, of which I am a radical proponent.

 

[CopticChristian]

Good enough. So, you now imply that the Catholic Church is divorced from Catholic Faith? Just how does that work, in your perception of the Church and of Catholic faith?

You are full of interesting implications.

Tell us more about the vast homosexual conspiracy, of which I am a radical proponent.

Epan,

This is a Catholic website…as far as I know it is an apologetic site that is consistent with Catholic teaching, but it is not the Church…

Those that adhere to the Faith are on this site and while I understand that they are in the Church it happens on occasion that Catechesis prevents them from speaking for the Church.

The Catholic Church is the Church, including the magesterium and all baptized in the trinitarian formula…now to say that those that adhere to the faith and those on this website are the Church…well I might say those on this website that adhere to the teachings of the Church speak as if the Church but are not the Church.

Only you know how much you propose for homosexualilty. Your actions and words are your moniker in that regard…show us…