Are People Participating?

[Andreas_Hofer]

The problem of Catholics and singing is one that existed long before Vatican II and although we have singing in the vernacular we have still not had any luck in getting people to sing. It isn’t the fault of the liturgy or the liturgists. Catholics just don’t seem to sing in the US. This is not the case in other countries, at least not as marked a problem.

Soem attribute this to the heavy Irish influence on American Catholicism and that mother church’s practice developed during penal times. When Mass is a secret affair in a field, you can’t be singing and drawing lethal attention. Some musicoligists theorize the lack of congregational singing just carried on in America and has influenced all of us since.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

If our American churches and hierarchy had been dominated by Germans, this would have been different, as JKirk mentioned. Congregational vernacular singing in German goes all the way back to the 1200s. In fact, Luther published his first hymnal in the same year as the release of a Catholic hymnal; whereas Luther’s had only 8 hymns, the Catholic book had many times more (secondary lesson: congregational hymnody was not a distinctive trait of Protestantism).

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

I learned this year how to read the notes (my daughter taught me what those little black bubbles mean ) So now, at least I know when to lower or raise my tone. I still can’t sing but boy, do I try to anyway. We do have a choir that has one really gifted person in it however. Other than that, a few families that sit nearby on the other side of the church by us, most people just can’t be heard to be singing.

Sometimes, when I hear a particular hymn or two, I have to stop because I am so moved to tears that I feel the lump in my throat. *How beautiful it must sound in your parish!! *God Bless you and may **LOVE for the Lord **continue to be heard in all your singing voices!

Thanx…and God bless you and your parish ! I suppose song is only one form of prayer , but a beautiful one nervertheless !

 

[Sarabande]

If our American churches and hierarchy had been dominated by Germans, this would have been different, as JKirk mentioned. Congregational vernacular singing in German goes all the way back to the 1200s. In fact, Luther published his first hymnal in the same year as the release of a Catholic hymnal; whereas Luther’s had only 8 hymns, the Catholic book had many times more (secondary lesson: congregational hymnody was not a distinctive trait of Protestantism).

I think you are right about this. When I was studying in Austria (yes, I know not Germany, but they do share the same language) they would sing their hearts out during mass - usually for the processional and recessional hymns.

 

[dympnha]

Hello,

Many tout the Novus Ordo as allowing people to participate more fully or more actively. Well, do they? I go to Church every Sunday and I am often the only one singing. Most don’t even pick up the missalette or hymnal. The few that do pick up the missalette or hymnal, most don’t sing and a few just move their lips - but nothing comes out. The very few who do sing, only one or two of us sing loud enough to have our voice carry. So how can we speak of a fuller and more active participation if the minority of Catholics, that is those who actually come to Mass, just sit there to listen to the music?

I confess. I don’t want to sing. I don’t like the weird songs the cantor imposes on us and I really don’t think mindlessly braying in the pews is so much participation as it is noisemaking. Grace is conferred just by attending Mass. For some of us that’s enough.

 

[Rabbititus]

I mostly only sing if I already know the song - even if it’s a song I really dislike (such as “Gather Us In” and “All Are Welcome”).

There isn’t a lot of singing along at the church I attend, but I was somewhat surprised by the (still somewhat weak) singing at the Assumption of Mary Mass I attended. It was at noon and there wasn’t a cantor or organist, so it was all up to the congregation to make the music. The priest picked hymns most of the congregation would already know (mostly older people in attendance). I think they were “Jesus Christ Our Sovereign King” and “O Sanctissima.” It wasn’t the loud rafter shaking participation that many would prefer, but we did sing. It seems to me that maybe Catholic congregations are perfectly willing to sing if they are forced to - by forced meaning that there is no amplified booming cantor’s voice up front to make up for their lack of participation. I kind of wonder if maybe cantors can sometimes be the problem. After all, why sing if you’ll be drowned out by the cantor? Perhaps congregations will sing if they are faced with the prospect that there will be no music if they don’t make it themselves.

on a funny side note…sometimes he he turns around to the people around us and starts singing right in their face (in a nice way of course) b/c he thinks he is going to get them to participate…i just close my eyes and sing…

While I do find this story funny, I must admit that if someone tried to get me to sing by giving me looks and singing to my face, my natural instinct would be to think “who does he think he is?” and then purposely refrain from singing. Heh.

 

[anniemart]

While I do find this story funny, I must admit that if someone tried to get me to sing by giving me looks and singing to my face, my natural instinct would be to think “who does he think he is?” and then purposely refrain from singing. Heh.

And tah-dah…another thread is born!

 

[Cat]

I disagree about a “loud” cantor. As pianist (sitting in the front of the sanctuary and the people face me), I would say that there is a definite improvement in the congregational participation if the cantor sings loudly and clearly. The people seem to have more confidence when they have a confident cantor.

To me, the important thing is for the cantor to be clear on the melody, not fuzzy.

Also, I think it makes a difference if the hymn is in a medium range as opposed to a high or low range. Often, people will sing very well in the low range, but it’s hard to hear them because low tones don’t carry as well. But when a hymn starts high and stays high, people back off because they aren’t quite sure where to place those notes, and frankly, it hurts non-singers to reach for high notes, just as it hurts a short person to reach to that top shelf (they can’t do it).

I agree that there is usually more participation when the hymn is well-known.

I think that when the priest joins in enthusiastically, there is a definite upsurge in participation. We attended one very lovely Mass in a Michigan church where the priest entered during the Processional, and instead of mounting the steps to the altar, he remained at the level of the people. He was miked, and he carried a hymnal, which he held up high as he sang with all his heart ALL the verses of the hymn (it was a traditional hymn). He did the same thing for the recessional hymn; instead of marching out the door, he stood at congregation level, held the hymnal up, and SANG all the verses (another traditional hymn, although the Preparation and Communion hymns were contemporary, and the people still sang them well). Interesting that not too many people left early in that church!

I wouldn’t say that priest had a great voice, but he certainly could hold the tune and he was enthusiastic. And the people at that church made the rafters ring! It was great!

 

[Sarabande]

It seems to me that maybe Catholic congregations are perfectly willing to sing if they are forced to - by forced meaning that there is no amplified booming cantor’s voice up front to make up for their lack of participation. I kind of wonder if maybe cantors can sometimes be the problem. After all, why sing if you’ll be drowned out by the cantor? Perhaps congregations will sing if they are faced with the prospect that there will be no music if they don’t make it themselves.

I believe you have a legitimate concern regarding this. As a cantor and professional opera singer, I always try to be aware of this when I cantor. Thus, I don’t sing with a full, operatic voice and stand as far away from the microphone as possible. I actually don’t like microphones, espescially since the majority of my singing is done without the need of microphones. It feels encumbering and fake to me, but I also realize that because most hymns are in the mid range of voice, it’s not going to cut across the room the way it is supposed to if we are leading as a cantor.

I do know that congregations do like to have a cantor with a well-trained voice or at least a pleasurable, untrained voice that will stay in tune. Some cantors do stand too close to the mic and will overpower the congregation. If the congregation is not a singing parish, it can deter them from singing more because they can’t hear their own voices when they sing and that can sometimes be disconcerting to a person.

An organ or other instruments can produce the same negative effect if they play their organ or amplified instruments too loudly. I mentioned this in my earlier post, but my parents complained to me about that last weekend with the substitute organist. He played too fast and way too loud. They love to sing everything and felt forced to not sing mainly because of how loud he made the organ and the tempi that he chose. My parish also has a priest who sings with a booming untrained voice into his lappel mic and does actually drown out everyone - including the organ. A co-worker of my husband’s who goes to the same parish was lamenting to me how he felt like it wasn’t worth it singing whenever father presided because of how loud he is. This is a parish that LOVES to sing. I’d say 90% of the congregants sing.

I have the feeling the kind of cantor you are concerned about was either just never taught how to sing with a microphone in church, which can be remedied very quickly by the music director or the priest, or he/she is someone whose ego has gotten in the way and needs to be gently reminded that they’re there for God and for helping lead the people in song and not as a soloist.

This is also at my parish (I usually cantor weekly at our Cathedral, but will once in a while do it at my parish), but the music director there was telling me that he received unkind feedback from some of the cantors when he suggested in a mass email that we’d try to make a point to stay as far away from the mic as possible since our parish is a great in terms of singing. We would only be closer to the mic when doing the verses of the psalm and the Gospel Acclamation. He wanted us to help the congregation along when it sounded like they were having trouble with a hymn, but to not sound like a solo, amplified voice over the congregation. We don’t even sing into the mic for the Sanctus, Christ Has Died, etc. because they sing so well. We’ll just lead them in with a gesture, if that. That particular congregation doesn’t need us during that part of the mass. They sing so well on their own and I agreed with the organist’s suggestions. There is a reason why we are called “cantors” and not “soloists”. Now it’s a different story at other parishes, as some don’t sing the way this parish does, but for this parish, it actually works very well.

 

[Sarabande]

I disagree about a “loud” cantor. As pianist (sitting in the front of the sanctuary and the people face me), I would say that there is a definite improvement in the congregational participation if the cantor sings loudly and clearly. The people seem to have more confidence when they have a confident cantor.

To me, the important thing is for the cantor to be clear on the melody, not fuzzy.

I think Rabbititus is lamenting the overpowering cantor - someone who prefers to hear her/his own voice over the congregation or at least someone doesn’t realize that having their mouths very close to the mic is too loud. I agree it’s very important to have someone confident up there who will help with the melody line, etc. but it’s also important to not drown out the congregation. Although I believe a good cantor is partially essential to getting a congregation to sing, I believe that a solid musician on the organ/piano or whatever other instrument is even more important in getting the congregation to sing. When the organist/pianist is confident and can really support the congregation, I’ve found that makes a load of difference.

What the heck… let’s just say that if all the musicians up there were confident and able musicians, they all help in getting the congregation to sing.