Are Plato's Dialogues profound or absurd?

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Have they made any substantial contribution to human knowledge?
 
Plato was sometimes wrong, of course, and he was one of those people who unfortunately create unrealistic and inhuman political ideals, expecting humanity to be reshaped to fit the ideal rather than fitting the ideal to fit humanity. But he still is one of the earliest greats in European thought. His dialogues are not only very intellectually stimulating but they are more readable and enjoyable for amateurs than most ancient or modern books of philosophy.

I think he deserves considerable respect and to be a part of any serious higher education.
 
I haven’t read Plato extensively but I know (via the certain aspects of neo-platonism) that men such as Origen and Saint Augustine of Hippo were influenced by Platonic thought. Scholasticism is a harmonization of Christian theology and the Church Fathers with Aristotelian and to a lesser extent Neo-Platonic philosophy (Aristotle was a pupil of Plato).
I’m not sure how profound the Dialogues may be, they certainly have been influential to a large number of great thinkers but I definitely wouldn’t call them absurd.
 
Plato’s writings are the go-to for beginning any study of western philosophy. My philosophy professor as well as many others I have heard say that before you study anything else in western philosophy, that you should read all of the works of Plato and once you think you understand them, read them all again.

They have made great contributions to human knowledge because these are pretty much the basis of western philosophy on his writings.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Plato was sometimes wrong, of course, and he was one of those people who unfortunately create unrealistic and inhuman political ideals, expecting humanity to be reshaped to fit the ideal rather than fitting the ideal to fit humanity. But he still is one of the earliest greats in European thought. His dialogues are not only very intellectually stimulating but they are more readable and enjoyable for amateurs than most ancient or modern books of philosophy.

I think he deserves considerable respect and to be a part of any serious higher education.
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I agree with you. 🙂
 
Pilgrim_333 said:
I haven’t read Plato extensively but I know (via the certain aspects of neo-platonism) that men such as Origen and Saint Augustine of Hippo were influenced by Platonic thought. Scholasticism is a harmonization of Christian theology and the Church Fathers with Aristotelian and to a lesser extent Neo-Platonic philosophy (Aristotle was a pupil of Plato).
I’m not sure how profound the Dialogues may be, they certainly have been influential to a large number of great thinkers but I definitely wouldn’t call them absurd.
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If they have been influenced a large number of great thinkers how could they not be profound to some extent?
 
tonyrey said:
The opinions about Plato and Christianity of a man who kept hundreds of slaves and claimed to believe in freedom and equality are worthless.
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Really? Thomas Jefferson was a great thinker and one of the greatest philosophers in early America. Don’t discredit him because of something that was the norm of the times. Seriously, if you discredit him why don’t you discredit the whole nations Constitution or Declaration of Independence because let me tell you, every founding father (to my knowledge) owned slaves. It was that time, get over it.
 
**Tony

The opinions about Plato and Christianity of a man who kept hundreds of slaves and claimed to believe in freedom and equality are worthless. **

Yes, as Alexander Hamilton was eager to point out, Jefferson could be quite the hypocrite. Jefferson expressed his disapproval of slavery. Yet as I recall, he did not leave it in his will, as George Washington did, that upon his death his slaves should be given their freedom.

Also, after Jefferson founded the University of Virginia, as a member of the Board he did everything in his power to prevent Federalists from being appointed to the faculty. Only James Madison could persuade him of the futility of this notion opposing academic freedom.
 
landon13 said:
Really? Thomas Jefferson was a great thinker and one of the greatest philosophers in early America. Don’t discredit him because of something that was the norm of the times. Seriously, if you discredit him why don’t you discredit the whole nations Constitution or Declaration of Independence because let me tell you, every founding father (to my knowledge) owned slaves. It was that time, get over it.
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Well, since tonyrey is apparently a Brit perhaps he has mixed feelings about the whole American independence thing. 😉

Seriously though, Thomas Jefferson was quite controversial among the American Founding Fathers and his acceptance of slavery really was hypocritical and repugnant. There were plenty of abolitionists in the 18th century including among the Founding Fathers, but Jefferson was too morally blind to become one of them. If the Declaration of Independence is something to cite in his favor as far as intellectual judgement goes, then his cut-and-paste Bible (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible) is something that counterbalances that.
 
Plato’s masterpiece was The Republic. In it he showed the progression of political order into chaos and dictatorship. He rightly cited the dangers of democracy without morals as the great sign that a people are doomed. When the rulers can no longer be elected without promising this and that to their constituents, and the constituents cannot get enough of this and that, a dictator will appear on the horizon to settle all claims. He will do so by disarming the people and surrounding himself with armed guards. Sound familiar?
 
Philosophy is mostly about asking the right questions. Plato asked tons of important questions, and explored how these questions might be answered. Many of the strengths of the discipline of philosophy are Plato’s strengths, and many of the discipline’s weaknesses are his weaknesses. But he was a very important and respectable teacher.

As Whitehead said, “The safest general characterization of the philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.”
 
landon13 said:
The opinions about Plato and Christianity of a man who kept hundreds of slaves and claimed to believe in freedom and equality are worthless.
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There is nothing to “get over”. If Jefferson **genuinely **believed in freedom and equality he would not have kept slaves. What counts is not what we profess but how we live.
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Aelred_Minor said:
Well, since tonyrey is apparently a Brit perhaps he has mixed feelings about the whole American independence thing.
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I have always opposed colonialism of any description.
Seriously though, Thomas Jefferson was quite controversial among the American Founding Fathers and his acceptance of slavery really was hypocritical and repugnant. There were plenty of abolitionists in the 18th century including among the Founding Fathers, but Jefferson was too morally blind to become one of them. If the Declaration of Independence is something to cite in his favor as far as intellectual judgement goes, then his cut-and-paste Bible (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible) is something that counterbalances that.
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👍 Irrefutable.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**Tony

The opinions about Plato and Christianity of a man who kept hundreds of slaves and claimed to believe in freedom and equality are worthless. **

Yes, as Alexander Hamilton was eager to point out, Jefferson could be quite the hypocrite. Jefferson expressed his disapproval of slavery. Yet as I recall, he did not leave it in his will, as George Washington did, that upon his death his slaves should be given their freedom.

Also, after Jefferson founded the University of Virginia, as a member of the Board he did everything in his power to prevent Federalists from being appointed to the faculty. Only James Madison could persuade him of the futility of this notion opposing academic freedom.
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:clapping: Thank you for those interesting facts which support my opinion.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Philosophy is mostly about asking the right questions. Plato asked tons of important questions, and explored how these questions might be answered. Many of the strengths of the discipline of philosophy are Plato’s strengths, and many of the discipline’s weaknesses are his weaknesses. But he was a very important and respectable teacher.

As Whitehead said, “The safest general characterization of the philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.”
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👍 Anyone who belittles Socrates and Plato - or Aristotle - reveals ignorance of their significance.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Well, since tonyrey is apparently a Brit perhaps he has mixed feelings about the whole American independence thing. 😉

Seriously though, Thomas Jefferson was quite controversial among the American Founding Fathers and his acceptance of slavery really was hypocritical and repugnant. There were plenty of abolitionists in the 18th century including among the Founding Fathers, but Jefferson was too morally blind to become one of them. If the Declaration of Independence is something to cite in his favor as far as intellectual judgement goes, then his cut-and-paste Bible (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible) is something that counterbalances that.
Click to expand...
The inconsistency of Jefferson’s beliefs (and disbeliefs) is revealed in his statement that the teaching of Jesus is “the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man”.
 
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