Are priests allowed to drink alcohol?

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In the US, this is the case except in very poor, mission parishes the Diocese may underwrite the salary. The priest also receives a maximum of one stipend per day.
 
Speaking for the US, I do not know the laws of other countries.

Our parishes and Dioceses are non-profits. As such, their financial statements are a matter of public record. If you have not seen your parish financial statement, then, speak with the Finance Council (required under Canon Law).

You will not get the detail of “Secretary makes X and janitor makes Y”, but, you will see how much is spent on salaries and utilities and repairs, etc.
 
At one of the Masses I attend on a Sunday the retired Bishop celebrates as it is a Latin Mass. Money collected at this Mass is given where he decides each week. Sometimes it is into the Diocese Bishop’s fund , sometimes it is given to various causes. He always announces where it will go each week.

That is a bit off topic, but I am sure some is used to buy the wine he confects into the Bosy and Blood and Soul and Divinity of Chris. 🙂
 
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TheLittleLady said:
Speaking for the US, I do not know the laws of other countries.

Our parishes and Dioceses are non-profits. As such, their financial statements are a matter of public record. If you have not seen your parish financial statement, then, speak with the Finance Council (required under Canon Law).

You will not get the detail of “Secretary makes X and janitor makes Y”, but, you will see how much is spent on salaries and utilities and repairs, etc.
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In Canada parishes are registered charities and must submit a financial report to the Charities Directorate within a specified time after the end of their fiscal year. The reports are available online to Joe Q Public.
 
Jen7 said:
Afterall they can’t exactly go buy it themselves could they?
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Of course they can! Why couldn’t a priest buy alcohol? We are not puritans!

And they do not spend “collection plate money” on their personal expenses.
 
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CTBcin said:
Although the diocese supports priests in other ways (insurance, etc.)
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Which they bill the parish for.

In our diocese, parishes pay the priest according to the priest’s salary schedule established by the diocese and amended annually determined by years of ordination. so it’s a salary schedule.

We pay the salary, room and board, and mileage. Room is either paying for rental, in kind via a parish rectory, or a stipend for the priest to pay for his accommodations, and board and mileage can be stipends (taxable) or an accountable plan of reimbursement (not taxable). Priests also receive mass offering money (taxable).

The priest’s insurance and retirement fund are at the diocesan level, and we get a bill for the premiums and retirement contributions from the diocese.

In the US, priests are considered self employed by the IRS for tax purposes so the parish does not pay payroll taxes. The priest pays the full self employment and social security tax. He can either pay himself or have the parish withhold the correct amount and remit it to the IRS.

In other countries, the parish might pay a salary, the diocese might pay it, it might come from some other means (some countries have a “church tax” so not sure where that goes or how it works). In poor countries, priests might not be paid a salary, they might only have mass offering money, only special collections, or as things were here in the US in the past: support in the form of eggs, milk, garden produce, meat, etc. from parishioners.

It varies widely across the globe as to how a parish supports its priest(s).
 
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Nelka said:
I remember having tea and a biscuit in the quarters of a Franciscan priest (at the cathedral); he seemed very not rich, if you know what I mean?
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Order priests are entirely different from diocesan priests when it comes to pay.
 
1ke said:
Of course they can! Why couldn’t a priest buy alcohol? We are not puritans!

And they do not spend “collection plate money” on their personal expenses.
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I already apologized for saying this. I have family in religious orders. They do not spend personal money on alcohol. I figured parish priests were the same. I was wrong. I’m kind of surprised but I see I was mistaken. Parish priests can buy their own alcohol and it’s not just something they enjoy if it’s a gift.
 
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Jen7 said:
Well I figured that’s what he did - took what he needed from whatever was collected & the rest went to upkeep of the church or the poor.
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That wouldn’t be sound accounting or financial stewardship. Segregation of duties is important to ensure no mishandling or embezzlement of funds. The parish has a duty to those who give to the parish.
Jen7 said:
although I now see my priest as more of an “employee” and less of a person dependent on what I give every Sunday.
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He is both (although in the US not technically for tax purposes). Because your giving does pay the bills.
Jen7 said:
I have family members in religious orders and they LITERALLY depend on donations & sales of whatever is in the gift shop
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And all the money goes into the community to pay the bills. The order priest may have a cell phone he uses but does not own. The order pays for it from what you and others give. A diocesan priest has a cell phone and HE pays for it, from his monthly from what you and others give.

Your priest depends on his salary to pay his bills too and to plan for the future. Because unlike an order, when he retires he’s going to have to pay his own way beyond whatever he gets from social security and priest retirement pension.
Jen7 said:
And when one of those family members was visiting he wouldn’t let us take him out to a nice dinner because he felt it could give scandal to the other patrons at the restaurant. He said he represents The Church and needs to be seen identifying with the poor, not eating well in a restaurant
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That’s his charism. It isn’t everyone’s or every priest’s.
 
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1ke said:
That’s his charism. It isn’t everyone’s or every priest’s
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So what IS a parish priest’s charism? And why doesn’t he take a vow of poverty?! Doesn’t he take a vow of chastity and obedience to the Bishop??
 
Diocesan priest don’t belong to orders and vows of poverty are not mandated.

If the parish pays the salary of your priest, it’s agreed on their contract with the dioceses.

In my dioceses, the priest is paid by the dioceses, not the parish directly. The parish pays the dioceses a 7% diocesan fee, based on their annual income from revenues received in the weekly collections.
 
Interesting information. I was not aware of all of the technicalities there. I did know that priests are considered self-employed for tax reasons. Always seemed strange to me.
 
There are religious priests who serve as Pastors of parishes. Their order or congregation has a contract with the diocese. In our case the diocese bought one vehicle for the parish but when a second priest from that congregation was posted in he brought a car belonging to the congregation he belonged to.

In our case they received a stipend of about $1000/month and two paid trips per year to their congregation mother house. It was a shock to the parish when they left and we got a diocesan priest whose salary was double that of the religious priests’ had been.
 
Parish priests are often secular priests… not religious. They’re priests, but still secular men, not consecrated / religious men. So it’s really apples and oranges. Religious, whether priests or not, are called to a different standard according to the rules of their particular order / congregation.

You asked why they don’t take vows of poverty. I could turn that question around… why haven’t you? It comes down to what you’re called to… what your vocation is. Those called to religious life are called to take radical vows that the rest of us aren’t. Secular priests are set aside for a very special vocation, and are expected to live relatively simple lives, proportionate to the lives of their flocks, but they’re not called to religious life.
 
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JimR-OCDS said:
Diocesan priest don’t belong to orders and vows of poverty are not mandated.

If the parish pays the salary of your priest, it’s agreed on their contract with the dioceses.

In my dioceses, the priest is paid by the dioceses, not the parish directly. The parish pays the dioceses a 7% diocesan fee, based on their annual income from revenues received in the weekly collections.
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I know diocesan priests are not religious priests.

We pay the diocese 10% of revenue over and above paying for the priest’s salary.
 
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Jen7 said:
So what IS a parish priest’s charism? And why doesn’t he take a vow of poverty?! Doesn’t he take a vow of chastity and obedience to the Bishop??
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A priest’s charism is to shepherd his parish and administer the sacraments to them.

The diocesan priesthood and religious life are two very different vocations. Religious orders are tight-knit communities that support each other and have very unique charisms and spiritualities particular to that order. The diocesan priesthood is simply not the same in that regard.

As I said, religious orders are tight-knit communities that support each other, allowing them to take the vow of poverty. This dynamic is not present with the diocesan priest, who does not live in community in the way the religious do. Thus, for both spiritual and practical reasons, diocesan priests do not take vows of poverty. Although priests are encouraged live in a spirit of poverty and be modest in how they spend their money.

Diocesans do not take vows of chastity and obedience. But they do make promises of celibacy and obedience to their bishop. The practical differences between “vows” and “promises” are minimal, but vows have a greater degree of spiritual gravity (or so I’ve heard). In religious orders, there’s also stages of simple vows before final vows. Vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience are attached to religious life and not to diocesan priesthood. The way the Church views vows only really makes sense in the context of religious life.
 
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Jen7 said:
So what IS a parish priest’s charism? And why doesn’t he take a vow of poverty?! Doesn’t he take a vow of chastity and obedience to the Bishop??
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One more thing. A “Vow of Poverty” is slightly misleading. It does not mean “poverty” as it is usually defined. A “vow of poverty” means they are pooling resources within their order, and nobody in their order actually owns anything other than basic stuff (i.e. books toiletries, etc). Some orders are actually reasonably well off and so priests live comfortably. In some situations they may actually live more comfortably than diocesan priests.

“Vow of Poverty” = Pooling resources
 
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Religious priest take promises of chastity, poverty and obedience. Some like monks, take a vow of stability…staying in a monastery until death.
To understand more about how a diocesan priests lives I would read The documents of Vatican ll, Chapter called Priests. This might help: Vatican II on Priests: Priestly Ministry | Catholic Culture and Vatican II on Priests: Priestly Life | Catholic Culture. But if you buy the book , the section is called…
lll. The means of support for priestly life…saint Paul speaks many times in gratitude for the support he needed for his ministry. At the offertory of the mass, in ancient days, the parishioners brought up food and other things for their priests.
 
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