Are Protestants bothered by the gazillion denominations?

[aidanbradypop]

“Reformed, yet forever reforming”…Prof. H. Hanko

I think that states it very clearly. Once you reform something, it will remain in a state of reform forever. I know a local Baptist pastor who was the pastor of a Southern Baptist Church. One Sunday he stood in front of the congergation and told them that he has had issues with the SBC and he has decided to start his own branch and call it Free Southern Baptist. Some people changed with him and others left the congergation.

If you do not like a certain doctrine, then reform it and make it how you please. It will work great until the next guy thinks he has a better belief system.

That’s my :twocents: now it is time for

 

[CMatt25]

Religion, to me, is like art. It is a continuity, with much latitude and few certainties… Only God knows the whole truth.

Well said. And if in faith He comes again, it is then when we shall know with 100% certainty too. In the meantime we walk by faith.

 

[Kal2012]

Most aren’t. Most don’t think about it or care. For me, that’s one of the major reasons why I want to convert.

I ended up going non-denominational because I could believe in Jesus and not make a commitment to any one brand. We ended up moving to another area of town and I just didn’t want to church-shop again.

Catholicism provides a structure and you know what you are getting when you go to a Catholic parish. There might be some variations by individual parishes, but for the most part, mass is the same and it’s not a mystery if the parish is conservative or liberal.

I think that a lot of Protestants are bothered, but they have no idea how to articulate what’s actually bothering them. A lot of what is called church these days is just BS and I really don’t like wasting my time. I can understand why a lot of people just don’t go.

 

[CMatt25]

Catholicism provides a structure

I think this can partially be what attracts people to Catholicism or to its practice thereof. Some people need structure more than others. Then there are other people of faith who can feel almost smothered if they are not free to breathe. To contemplate. To think for themselves. They may be fine with not having to believe they know or with having every “i” dotted or "t’ crossed for them. There’s nothing wrong with either. It’s just the way God created us with different personalities.

 

[datritle]

i don’t get the whole protestant “being okay with all the denominations” thing. how can they all be right, while believing different things. there is right, and there is wrong. i mean…not everyone can be right. unless they become catholic

 

[Indifferently]

i don’t get the whole protestant “being okay with all the denominations” thing. how can they all be right, while believing different things. there is right, and there is wrong. i mean…not everyone can be right. unless they become catholic

Some of us are not so arrogant to presume we have it all right.I refer you to my post above, for what I try to put across as my perspective. I think a lot of Roman Catholics sort of look at other Christians through an RC lens, but that doesn’t apply in my case. I look at my religion in a completely different way.

 

[PJM]

=AbideWithMe;10268009]Yes, there is only one God. He knows Himself, and the entirety
if the truth of Himself, with perfect knowledge and no contradiction.

It doesn’t follow, though, that we humans, seeing “through a glass darkly” diminish His perfection if in our very limited understanding we mis-perceive Him and make mistakes in trying to understand Him.

Well said:thumbsup:

I can help you find that One true God and His Only One true faith if your interested in doing so

God Bless you,

Pat/PJM

 

[PJM]

=creationlover;10268308]it bothered me and haunted me for years. After reading both sides of church history i felt as though a huge burden had been lifted. I couldn’t live with the contradictions - especially after reading the apostle paul say stuff like “one lord, one faith, one baptism” and encourage the corinthians to live in unity (not just relational unity), and not to divide and form small cliques (1cor chap 1). I think many protestants are somewhat content if you hold to some central truths such as the trinity and infallibility of scripture. Outside of those doctrines and maybe a few others, it’s a battle. But this is just my opinion.

your’s; our gods and mine too:d

 

[CMatt25]

Some of us are not so arrogant to presume we have it all right.I refer you to my post above, for what I try to put across as my perspective.

Well said. And I’m not sure all Protestants necessarily believe they are right on everything or for that matter that any human can be for certain. There’s a difference too between a person of faith believing they know and are right, and actually knowing ultimate truth with 100& certainty with regard to what are, when you get right down to it, matters of faith.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Well said. And I’m not sure all Protestants necessarily believe they are right on everything or for that matter that any human can be for certain. There’s a difference too between a person of faith believing they know and are right, and actually knowing ultimate truth with 100& certainty with regard to what are, when you get right down to it, matters of faith.

Most will even direct you to read for yourself and don’t take their word that they are “right”. It is about doing your best, not being perfect, or believing some other man above you is perfect

 

[CMatt25]

I can help you find that One true God and His Only One true faith if your interested in doing so

God Bless you,

Pat/PJM

You can but first you have to put faith in God, in the NT story of Christ, in your faith’s interpretation of Scripture, of Herself, of history and Her interpretation of ECFs.

 

[CMatt25]

Most will even direct you to read for yourself and don’t take their word that they are “right”. It is about doing your best, not being perfect, or believing some other man above you is perfect

I know I have a Protestant friend who when we would discuss faith, always pointed me to Acts 17:11 where the Bereans searched their Scripture to see what was true. Doing our best in accordance with our understanding and leaving salvation to God, Who in His infinite wisdom can understand our hearts and minds, and leaving it to His mercy is probably all we can truly do in the end.

 

[Indifferently]

I also have faith in God’s ability to correct me if I err or have erred, and the desire to know him as well in this life as I can. The presumptuous interventions of other human beings claiming to possess the whole truth of God’s faith that they will discern to share if I only will listen remind me of the pious Pharisees so rebuked by Jesus in the Gospel accounts.

 

[JRKH]

None taken.

What you say here is based on your observance of non-catholic churches through the lens of your own ecclesiology. I know that’s something that is naturally but it isn’t how we see things. Outside of apostolic authority, which is not comparable to present authority, churches simply did not have any direct control over churches outside of their jurisdiction. This was the case both in the apostolic and post-apostolic time period. Each congregation was under their own elders and deacons.

Let’s say hypothetically the church in Ephesus A. D. 115 hears that the church in Smyrna is teaching that Christ was really just a human prophet. The elders of the church in Ephesus could, certainly, write letters, send emisaries, etc., to Smyrna and say “You are teaching false doctrine. Repent.” If the Smyrneans did not listen, the Ephesian church could not just depose their elders. What they could do would be to say “You are heretics and we no longer are in Christian fellowship with you.” They could also spread the word around to other churches that the Smyrneans had apostasized. The kind of central authority that is read anachronistically into the early church by present day Catholics is simply non-existant. Even Clement of Rome could only send a letter to Corinth exhorting and warning them. There’s no threats of excommunication or papal censure.

So (and I can only speak for Baptists here), I can say that other church bodies, say Lutherans, teach false doctrine on baptism so we do not fellowship officially with Lutheran churches and Lutheran visitors may not come to our eucharistic table. We don’t presume to have any authority over their own churches.

Same goes for the churches that have a central hierarchy though. The RCC and EO haven’t fixed their disagreements.

Yes because it has never existed.

Nor does having a central hierarchy stop people from going elsewhere when they get booted out. Are we to believe that when the Council of Chalcedon condemned the heretics their churches just disappeared? I don’t mean to be blunt here but the RCC does not have a good track record on disciplining those who reject Catjolic dogma. Just watch the Kennedy’s go to Mass to see if central hierarchies are not all they’re cracked up to be.

Peace to you James

Peace to you too my friend.
You have presented many good points above
however -
As you might expect…I still disagree
You say above that I am seeing through my “lens” and I hope that you recognize that you are seeing through your “lens”……Which to me only reinforces the desirability of an authoritative Church…
But that is a topic for another time…

Peace
James

 

[Gaelic_Bard]

Peace to you too my friend.
You have presented many good points above
however -
As you might expect…I still disagree
You say above that I am seeing through my “lens” and I hope that you recognize that you are seeing through your “lens”……Which to me only reinforces the desirability of an authoritative Church…
But that is a topic for another time…

Peace
James

Absolutely, JR. We all have presuppositions that we bring to the table. I’m no less guilty of that than you It’s our job to determine if our presuppositions are true or not.

 

[Adamski]

I also have faith in God’s ability to correct me if I err or have erred, and the desire to know him as well in this life as I can. The presumptuous interventions of other human beings claiming to possess the whole truth of God’s faith that they will discern to share if I only will listen remind me of the pious Pharisees so rebuked by Jesus in the Gospel accounts.

Intersting joesph smith and muhammad thought the say way as you…

 

[PJM]

=Dave Noonan;10269008]Authority and perfection are pretty far removed, in my opinion.

=Adamski;10268996]Well we can know the apostles and their descendants had/have authority (acts 1, Matt 16, John 20)

Allow me to share the biblical roadmap to the Authority of Rome and today’s CC.

**Mt 10: 1-8 **“**And having called his twelve disciples [APOSTLES] together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, **to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities. And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother…”

**Mt. 16:18-19 **“And I [GOD] say to thee: [ALONE] That thou art Peter; and upon this rock [SINGULAR I will build my church, [SINGULAR] and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I [GOD] will give to thee [YOU Peter] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever **thou shalt bind “Command /Ordain“] ** upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven”

Mt. 18: 17-18 “And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Amen I say to you, [MY APOSTLES] whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven” EXTENED now to all the Apostles”

**Jn.14:16-17 “**And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive”
Jn. 20:21-23“**He [GOD] said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the ***Father hath sent me, I also send you. *When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. **** Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”

**Jn.17:15-20 **“I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from evil. They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world. Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for them do ***I [GOD PERSONALLY ACT AS THEIR WARRNTY OF TEACING ONLY MY TRUTHS] sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me” ***

Mk. 16:14-15 & Mt. 28:19-20 “At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. And he [GOD] said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature… Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost***. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:*** and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world“.

THEN THERE IS THE EVIDENCE OF Christ passing on directly and exclusively his own godly powers and authority to the apostles.

Mt. 10:1-2 “***And having called his twelve disciples ***[APOSTLES] together, he [GOD] gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities.

Jn.17:18 “As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost”

**Jn.20:19 **“As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth”

Mt. 28: 18 “And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth; GO! *

AND ALL OF THIS BY ABSOLUTE NECESSITY PASSES ON TO TODAYS POPE AND MAGISTERIUM BECAUSE GOD NOW MANDATED TEACHING THE “WHOLE WORLD” emphasis; not shouting.

God Bless you,
Pat/PJM*

 

[PJM]

=CMatt25;10270420]You can but first you have to put faith in God, in the NT story of Christ, in your faith’s interpretation of Scripture, of Herself, of history and Her interpretation of ECFs.

I have done all of that exceptp I don’t know what “EFC’S” are?

Extrodinary Form Christians? I’m in favor of that too

So how might I assist your prt to the Singular TRUTH?

God Bless,
pat/PJM

 

[JRKH]

Absolutely, JR. We all have presuppositions that we bring to the table. I’m no less guilty of that than you It’s our job to determine if our presuppositions are true or not.

Amen - and as we (two or three or more) do this…refining our presuppositions…we eventually arrive at a universal truth…It’s when we stop doing this and each goes their own way that it becomes a problem…

Peace
James

 

[Indifferently]

Intersting joesph smith and muhammad thought the say way as you…

I’m not even sure this is worthy of a response. Both these men claimed divine revelation to support their beliefs. Who are you trying to impress with statements like that?