Are Protestants bothered by the gazillion denominations?

[benjohnson]

i don’t get the whole protestant “being okay with all the denominations” thing. how can they all be right, while believing different things. there is right, and there is wrong. i mean…not everyone can be right. unless they become catholic

As a Lutheran, I’m deeply troubled by the fact that we’re not all one holy, catholic, apostolic church.

But at the same time, I trust that God will fix his church in His time, and that perhaps the church is fractured so as to reach an entire world of fractured people.

 

[CMatt25]

Pat, all of that you shared appears to be a nice roadmap until one starts thinking about whether Christ built His Church upon Peter or upon Peter’s words that Christ was the Son of God. Then one may recall that shortly after giving Peter keys, Christ then also gave the power to bind and loosen to all the Apostles. And what is the function of keys? They bind and loosen locks. So in that sense all of the Apostles could have had keys. And beyond your own conclusion that it is “absolute necessity”, can you provide me with words of Christ from Scripture that says “all of this by absolute necessity passes on to today’s Pope and Magisterium”? The world has Scripture to read and Christians of various stripes provide it to the world. You also don’t allow for people of Christian faith who may believe Christ has needed to reform His Church along the way through out the course of history and that people of faith might arrive at new understandings over time. But I give you an “A” for effort. God bless you in your faith walk. Peace be with you.

 

[CMatt25]

I have done all of that exceptp I don’t know what “EFC’S” are?

Extrodinary Form Christians? I’m in favor of that too

So how might I assist your prt to the Singular TRUTH?

God Bless,
pat/PJM

I looked back and it looks like I typed “ECFs”. Early Church Fathers.

 

[PJM]

=benjohnson;10270630]As a Lutheran, I’m deeply troubled by the fact that we’re not all one holy, catholic, apostolic church.

But at the same time, I trust that God will fix his church in His time, and that perhaps the church is fractured so as to reach an entire world of fractured people.

So Ben my friend,

Are we to understand that Christ Did and does intend for their to be only:

One God

One set of Faith beliefs

& Only One Church

God Bless you,

 

[CMatt25]

So Ben my friend,

Are we to understand that Christ Did and does intend for their to be only:

One God

One set of Faith beliefs

& Only One Church

God Bless you,

I may have missed it if someone here on this thread has argued for more than one God or for more than one Church or set of beliefs. People of Christian faith merely may disagree on what the Church it is. Whether it the Catholic Church or whether it is Christ’s entire body of believers. And while there is not unity yet on all facets of faith and every dotted “i” and crossed ‘t’, Christians are united in the belief of the One most important of all to them, Christ Lord and Savior. And Scripture tells us it is He Who breaks down walls.

 

[andrewstx]

As a former protestant I would answer your question, probably not. I think many protestants just see this not being realistic on this side of heaven. It isn’t unusual for protestants to switch churches and denominations more than once so it’s not a “big deal”. Now I see things differently of course, but that would be my view before becoming Catholic

Blessings,
mlz

Many Protestant groups are close together in ways of doctrine so they can easily switch denominations. Especially Methodists, Disciples of Christ, Presbyterians, and the United Church of Christ

With the ecumenical movement have come mergers thus making fewer denominations. The United Brethren merged with the Methodist church to make the United Methodist church. The Congregational Christian Church merged with the Evengelical and Reformed church to make the United Church of Christ, and the E & R was an earlier merger. The UCC is growing close to merging with the Disciples of Christ.

The Lutheran Church in America mereged with the American Lutheran church to make the Evangelical Lutheran. The ELCA has altar and pulpit sharing with the Episcopal church.

The mergers and reunions are mainly as we see fairly limited to Mainline Protestants. It is the more fundamental and Evangelical churches that continue to fracture, over and over.

My Baptist friends tell me that when two Baptists dissagree they just start a new congregation.

In the churches of Christ where I was raised they split at the drop of a hat. I have read there are seven different groups all using the same cofC name that deny the others are Christian. They split over such issues as sunday school or no sunday school, how many cups are used the pass the grape juice in their Communion. The others issues they split over are of equally earth shattering importance.

 

[PJM]

=CMatt25;10270721]I may have missed it if someone here on this thread has argued for more than one God or for more than one Church or set of beliefs. People of Christian faith merely may disagree on what the Church it is. Whether it the Catholic Church or whether it is Christ’s entire body of believers. And while there is not unity yet on all facets of faith and every dotted “i” and crossed ‘t’, Christians are united in the belief of the One most important of all to them, Christ Lord and Savior. And Scripture tells us it is He Who breaks down walls.

One Faith?

**“From your lips to God’s ear my friend”:**rolleyes:

The Primacy of Peter & Church authority

The Eucharist as Thee Real Presence

Forgiveness of sin [John 20:23]

How Salvation MIGHT happen

Are only a few of the points of critical but Differing understandings.

God Bless you,
pat/PJM

 

[benjohnson]

Are we to understand that Christ Did and does intend for their to be only:

One God, One set of Faith beliefs & Only One Church

Yes!

Now, the task between you and me is to discern if that church would be Catholic, Lutheran, or the best of both.

With all seriousness, may we learn from each other, so that in God’s time our God’s church may look back on this time and say to themselves - “why were they ever apart?”

 

[CMatt25]

Many Protestant groups are close together in ways of doctrine so they can easily switch denominations. Especially Methodists, Disciples of Christ, Presbyterians, and the United Church of Christ

With the ecumenical movement have come mergers thus making fewer denominations. The United Brethren merged with the Methodist church to make the United Methodist church. The Congregational Christian Church merged with the Evengelical and Reformed church to make the United Church of Christ, and the E & R was an earlier merger. The UCC is growing close to merging with the Disciples of Christ.

The Lutheran Church in America mereged with the American Lutheran church to make the Evangelical Lutheran. The ELCA has altar and pulpit sharing with the Episcopal church.

The mergers and reunions are mainly as we see fairly limited to Mainline Protestants. It is the more fundamental and Evangelical churches that continue to fracture, over and over.

My Baptist friends tell me that when two Baptists dissagree they just start a new congregation.

In the churches of Christ where I was raised they split at the drop of a hat. I have read there are seven different groups all using the same cofC name that deny the others are Christian. They split over such issues as sunday school or no sunday school, how many cups are used the pass the grape juice in their Communion. The others issues they split over are of equally earth shattering importance.

That was a good explanation. I’ll just add the United Church of Christ and Disciples of Christ do have a partnership where they can share pastors and sacraments as I understand it. I would love to see the 2 fully merge. From what I can gather the UCC as a denominational policy is more settled on the gay/homosexuality issue, though certainly it can vary from congregation to congregation or region to region within both denominations. But UCC is one of the denominations that does not seem to spend as much time or resources still in debate over that issue. A UCC pastor once told me he became a UCC pastor after many yrs of being a Presbyterian pastor for this very reason. UCC and DoC are actually 2 of my favorite Protestant Christian denominations. Besides for instance UCC not expending the amount of energy on a couple of divisive issues such as choice and the homosexuality issue that some others do, I also like in DoC that as long as a person has been baptized or christened somewhere, a simple profession of Christ Lord and Savior is all that is needed to become a Disciple and they also have weekly Communion. Within UCC I have found the way to membership can vary from pastor to pastor, congregation to congregation. From first taking some classes to simply informing the pastor one desires membership and she recommending the person to the elders and upon her recommendation the person is a member. Both as with other mainline churches also have open Communion.

Episcopalians are among my favorites too but I know they would not necessarily refer to themselves as Protestant. But rather as Catholic but just not Roman. Or as a bridge between Catholicism and Protestantism. I was aware of their open communion for baptized Trinitarian Christians but I’m not sure I was aware ELCA and TEC share the pulpit and altar so thanks for that. One of the best outreaches I’ve seen from an individual church is at a very small Episcopal church. It is not a thrift type store. They provide free of charge, food, meals, and clothing to those in need on most days of the wk.

Regarding Baptists, in my small midwestern hometown there were a number of Baptist churches. Among them First Baptist where neighbors and good friends of mine attended, and there were Calvary Baptist and Freewill Baptist churches as I recall.

May God bless all who walk in faith and strive to obtain eternal life with Him. Peace be with all on their journeys.

 

[CMatt25]

One Faith?

**“From your lips to God’s ear my friend”:**rolleyes:

God Bless you,
pat/PJM

Yes Pat, one faith in He Who is the One most important of all, He Who is the One Who breaks down walls. Christ as our Lord and Savior. God bless you too my friend as well. And all whom strive to walk with Him.

 

[johnnyjones]

It appears from the small Protestant response here that multiple denominations are not much of a concern. As I said in an earlier post that was eeriely skipped over, division can cause a skewed perseption from non Christians. I hear it many times about how “we” can’t even agree. I remember how I held on to my anti Catholic sentiments with fervor because I thought I knew the teachings of the church already. What I knew was MY understanding of the Catholic faith. Alas, ONE holy Catholic and apostolic church actually makes sense.

 

[benjohnson]

It appears from the small Protestant response here that multiple denominations are not much of a concern.

I would hope this isn’t true - it concerns me.

For myself, I almost didn’t respond to the question because it seemed like polemics rephrased as a question.

For me, a better question would be “Are different Protestant denominations interested in unity?”

 

[johnnyjones]

I would hope this isn’t true - it concerns me.

For myself, I almost didn’t respond to the question because it seemed like polemics rephrased as a question.

For me, a better question would be “Are different Protestant denominations interested in unity?”

I see your point about my thread question. I admit it could have been phrased better. I guess my inner thoughts were coming out in the question. I’m glad you did respond. Why does it concern you?

 

[cheezey]

As a Lutheran, I’m deeply troubled by the fact that we’re not all one holy, catholic, apostolic church.

But at the same time, I trust that God will fix his church in His time, and that perhaps the church is fractured so as to reach an entire world of fractured people.

:yup: :clapping:

 

[cheezey]

As a Lutheran, I’m deeply troubled by the fact that we’re not all one holy, catholic, apostolic church.

But at the same time, I trust that God will fix his church in His time, and that perhaps the church is fractured so as to reach an entire world of fractured people.

peoples and individuals who feel lost…

 

[johnnyjones]

Pardon me for asking, but…why is your word “feelings” in quotations?
Does that mean they were “bad” feelings…or not really “feelings” at all, but something else?
(Just trying to understand…)

I was emphasizing “feelings” as opposed to facts. I had some facts to work with but my anti-Catholic animus became more of a force. Basically, some itellect mixed with too much emotion. I was raised Catholic but stumbled into and bought much of the propaganda that some with either their own agenda or pure misinformed disdain for Catholicism wanted me to hear.

 

[ChrisB103]

Yes, for example it’s very clear historically (and simply from 2 Corinthians for that matter) that Paul’s first letter or series of letters to the Corinthians was not at all well-received. The relationship was so contentious between Paul and Barnabas (just as an example) that they had to part company. Paul rebuked Peter to his face on a point of doctrine–I have a feeling that did not go over well. It was not all wine and roses in the early church.

Point taken. I shouldn’t have said “well-received”. However, my question still stands; would such a letter be received at all in modern Protestant congregations? The simple writing and reception of letters as pointed as many of the epistles are seems to point to them coming from a position of authority. As you know, these epistles circulated and were read in churches all throughout the region in the following decades and centuries. I simply haven’t heard of anything like this in Protestant circles - especially those that have fallen further away from their Catholic roots in terms of their infrastructure/hierarchy.

 

[ChrisB103]

I also have faith in God’s ability to correct me if I err or have erred, and the desire to know him as well in this life as I can. The presumptuous interventions of other human beings claiming to possess the whole truth of God’s faith that they will discern to share if I only will listen remind me of the pious Pharisees so rebuked by Jesus in the Gospel accounts.

Perhaps we Catholics can too often be a bit too triumphalistic with our claim to have the one, true faith. I know I’ve been guilty of this at times personally. However, iron still sharpens iron, and God uses individuals in our lives time and time again to bring us closer to him.

Edit: Perhaps the word “presumptuous” in your post referring to interventions of other human beings does away with the need for a response like mine. Regardless, I think the line of thought that God will correct us if we err individually is a dangerous line to walk. I’m sure you and I can both agree that plenty of people of good will have erred and not been aware of it, despite their best intentions. That statement comes across as assuming for yourself nearly as significant spiritual protection as Catholics believe the Pope has. Just an observation… God bless!

 

[CMatt25]

Perhaps we Catholics can too often be a bit too triumphalistic with our claim to have the one, true faith. I know I’ve been guilty of this at times personally.

Don’t be too hard on yourself. I take heart that at least you recognized it is a claim.

 

[ChrisB103]

That was a good explanation. I’ll just add the United Church of Christ and Disciples of Christ do have a partnership where they can share pastors and sacraments as I understand it. ** I would love to see the 2 fully merge.**

Perhaps I’m reading more into your comments than what you intended, but may I sincerely ask why someone who responded to the OP’s question with “I don’t know why [Protestants] would be [bothered by the vast number of denominations]” would love to see two churches merge? If numbers of denominations and visible unity don’t matter, then who cares if two churches merge, right?