Are Protestants bothered by the gazillion denominations?

[CMatt25]

Most aren’t. Most don’t think about it or care. For me, that’s one of the major reasons why I want to convert.

I ended up going non-denominational because I could believe in Jesus and not make a commitment to any one brand. We ended up moving to another area of town and I just didn’t want to church-shop again.

Catholicism provides a structure and you know what you are getting when you go to a Catholic parish. There might be some variations by individual parishes, but for the most part, mass is the same and it’s not a mystery if the parish is conservative or liberal.

I’ve attended many a Catholic parishes over my lifetime. And if I were still doing so and moved, I would still have to church shop. Right where I live now there are 4 Catholic churches within 7 miles of me. I’ve previously attended all 4. The decor of the closest one, less than 2 mi from my house, I would describe as more splendid. A priest there once said in a homily when I was in attendance that his answer to the poor was to get a job. People are dressier there. It is actually the territorial parish for Catholics in my neighborhood but if I were a Catholic attending, I could never make it my spiritual home.

5 miles to the north there is a parish where folks sit on chairs. The decor is plainer. Many more people come casually dressed. Once when I was there we prayed intentions for the government to help the poor.

Priests as well as other Protestant pastors come in various personalities. Homilies and sermons are different. And churches have different “vibes” so to speak. So even if I were a Catholic who moved, I know from experience I no doubt would have to church shop to find the best fit for me.

 

[PJM]

=CMatt25;10275690]Incase anyone had any doubts I just wanted to chime in here that I consider myself a regular Christian. Profess Christ my Lord and Savior. Believe He was crucified, died and was buried. Believe risen from the tomb He ascended into heaven where He sits at the right hand of the Father. I believe He will come again. I try to live by the Golden Rule. Try to love my neighbor. Believe strongly in what I see in Matt 25 as a chief mission of Christ and His followers.

And I would not at all be embarrassed to be affiliated with the mainline churches.

Andrewstx makes a good point as well I believe that the very conservative tend to major on the minors and use the Bible as a history and science text while ignoring the 6.000 years of learning that have came along in the mean time.

In any case God bless all whether conservative, moderate, or liberal, as they strive to walk with Him.

MATT THATS WONDERFUL

BUT…

Do you believe in only One God ? Triune|

Can you understand that the One can can logically have only One set of Faith-beliefs
AND that God because He is Perfect cannot hold contradictory positions on the same defined issues:shrug:

That this One God and His One set of Faith Believes are tied to the very KEYS to heavens access and these keys rest with the CC?

And yes my friend I can prove it biblically far beyond the Mt. 16;15-19 teaching

My friend your part way HOME

God Bless,
pat/PJM

 

[andrewstx]

I’d rather have the Bible then reference to what is current in the cultural mainstream, which seems to be what the mainline church is basing its decisions on.

And why do you say that its the conservatives who are the schismatics when it is the liberals who have departed from the faith that they received. Just because liberals have managed to takeover the denominational machinery does not mean that they get a pass on blame for the divisions. The liberals have made it impossible for theological conservatives to remain in the mainline in good conscience.

For one thing, most of the groups splitting from the mainline churches today cannot be called “fundamentalists.” They’ve managed to stay in the mainline churches this long because they are relatively moderate Christians. It is because the mainline churches have gone so far left (in the sense of Marxist left in some cases) that regular Christians are embarrassed to be affiliated with them.

Sorry but Christian marriage is not a minor thing. Marriage is a relationship that reflects Christ and his church. The pagan sexual ethics that many liberal Christians want to adopt is not a minor issue for Christians. It strikes at the very heart of human nature, and it calls the Bible and the church’s traditional interpretation of the Bible into serious question–which is not beholden to science (which doesn’t have a great moral track record with the advocation of euthanizing unwanted people, etc.)

The fact is that God’s design for sex is between a husband and wife. Unmarried people, whatever their orientation, are called to celibacy. Any position short of this is condoning fornication, which is not a minor issue.

I agree with you that the unmarried are called to celiebacy. But I dissagree with the mean spirtited nature of the political right. I do not think it is morally right to treat people with different sexualities more than just homosexuals as the scum of the earth. “we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” “There is none rightoeus no not one”. We are all sinners.

The far right needs a scape-goat group to scare people with, first Catholics, Irish, Jews, Mexicansand african=Americans and now illegal immagrants and homosexual,who will be next?

 

[andrewstx]

As a boy I was raised in a denomination so fundamentalist that every thing not speciffically ordered in the bible was forbidden, even candles and flowers.

They claimed that nthey were not a denomination at all just the one and only church, and they considered them selves the ONLY Christians. Even though they were not invented until 1906.

This “one and only” church that was founded on church unity, not ecumenism but everyone must join their church.

This church unity denomination has contributed to the multiplicity of denominations by splintering into at least 7 different denominations, over tiny matters that amount to nothing.

So far right are they they have no integrated congregations, and if anyone is a democrat they keep it mum.

Of course this denomination is nearly non-existent outside the south.

 

[johnnyjones]

As a boy I was raised in a denomination so fundamentalist that every thing not speciffically ordered in the bible was forbidden, even candles and flowers.

They claimed that nthey were not a denomination at all just the one and only church, and they considered them selves the ONLY Christians. Even though they were not invented until 1906.

This “one and only” church that was founded on church unity, not ecumenism but everyone must join their church.

This church unity denomination has contributed to the multiplicity of denominations by splintering into at least 7 different denominations, over tiny matters that amount to nothing.

So far right are they they have no integrated congregations, and if anyone is a democrat they keep it mum.

Of course this denomination is nearly non-existent outside the south.

That can make you a very rigid person. I don’t mean you specifically, anyone who is boxed in that much. I became somewhat like that as well during my years of Fundemental “searching”. As you may know many Protestant denominations forbid or frown upon dancing (most styles) and drums in music. With the drums I was told the beat is too “primal”. That was tough for me as a drummer to hear.

 

[CMatt25]

MATT THATS WONDERFUL

BUT…

Do you believe in only One God ? [Triune|

Can you understand that the One can can logically have only One set of Faith-beliefs
AND that God because He is Perfect cannot hold contradictory positions on the same defined issues:shrug:

That this One God and His One set of Faith Believes are tied to the very KEYS to heavens access and these keys rest with the CC?

And yes my friend I can prove it biblically far beyond the Mt. 16;15-19 teaching

My friend your part way HOME

God Bless,
pat/PJM

Pat, yes I’m monotheistic and believe in one God. I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Though I don’t remember it, I was even baptized in a Catholic church so it would have been in the Triune manner. But that question reminds me of the story an Episcopal priest told me. When she came to her parish many yrs ago a gentleman approached her asking her opinion on homosexual Bishop Gene Robinson. When she said she had no problem with it, he seemed offended. Then she asked him what you asked of me. Did he believe in one God? She also asked if he believed in Jesus Christ? When he responded yes, her reply was well so do I! She told him just because they disagree on homosexuality did not mean they could not be part of the same worshiping family. And the man has been in church there ever since worshiping God and His Son Jesus Christ alongside her.

Ok now I see what I just wrote leads into your next question.

Yes I understand there can only be one ultimate truth. That’s why it drives me absolutely crazy when people on CAF accuse me of relativism. What I don’t understand though is beyond simply having faith in believing you know, how that equates to “we know for sure what it is, and end of story”.

The One God knows. But unless we walked with Jesus during the short time He walked this earth and we had correctly understood Him completely, I don’t see how anyone truly knows. They instead walk by faith. Not by sight.

You have a fondness I’ve noticed of saying it’s an absolute necessity that teaching be passed on to today’s CC. I can totally understand where you come from. That’s just something about me. God created me I guess to be able to understand different views and beliefs. So I don’t necessarily see why it absolutely would have to be that way. First of all you have to assume and have faith there is not only a Creator but place faith in the NT story of Christ’s death on the cross and in His Resurrection as we both do. But you also have to assume and have faith the humans who walked with Jesus understood everything correctly and it was all recorded correctly. And translated correctly. Interpreted correctly. Over time. You even have to have faith the human ECFs with finite minds got it all right. That the councils got it right. And in the CC interpretation of them. I’ve been reading today on another subforum about today’s Catholic bishops entertaining the idea of returning to meatless Fridays 365 days a yr. So if the bishops represent teaching authority, why change things? Or were those bishops wrong who were in control when they ok’d meatless Fridays only during Lent?

And you have to assume Protestants are wrong. That Christ has never needed to reform His Church. Or as far as I know maybe He transferred authority to them and what they teach is right. Or maybe one of the Lutheran groups or synods is right. Or the Episcopal Church. Or the United Church of Christ. The Disciples of Christ…

You seem not to allow for human understanding to grow over 6000 or 2000 yrs. And though an infinite God may well be too big for the human finite mind to grasp in His entirety until in faith we meet Him face to face when He comes again and we stand before Him. Perhaps too for further new understanding as well over the course of future time.

I don’t see how faith can be proven. Because at that time it ceases to be faith. And see there’s just a lot of faith steps one must take for me to say I know for certain and that everything is black and white. I believe He shall come again. Then we shall truly know the one truth.

In the meantime IMHO all any person of faith can truly do is to continue to strive as the Apostle Paul said, to walk by faith. Not by sight. To the best of their finite human understanding. And in His infinite wisdom and mercy, know in faith God can understand our hearts and minds. And in the end the keys are in His hands.

Peace and God bless you too.
[/quote]

 

[PJM]

=andrewstx;10279110]I agree with you that the unmarried are called to celiebacy. But I dissagree with the mean spirtited nature of the political right. I do not think it is morally right to treat people with different sexualities more than just homosexuals as the scum of the earth. “we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” “There is none rightoeus no not one”. We are all sinners.

The far right needs a scape-goat group to scare people with, first Catholics, Irish, Jews, Mexicansand african=Americans and now illegal immagrants and homosexual,who will be next?

I and every Informed and fully practicing Catholic OUGHT to agree with you on the treatment issue. The position of our Church is; has been and continues to be:

Love the sinner BUThate the sin.

Those who struggle to be chaste; even with Gay tendcies are in every way our equals. Amen.

pat/PJM

 

[CMatt25]

So far right… and if anyone is a democrat they keep it mum.

This actually sounds familiar to me. I see the Catholic Church becoming more and more the same way. I’ve seen on CAF Catholics who vote a certain way and don’t keep it mum are told they can’t be Catholics.

 

[SteveVH]

Pat, yes I’m monotheistic and believe in one God. I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Though I don’t remember it, I was even baptized in a Catholic church so it would have been in the Triune manner. But that question reminds me of the story an Episcopal priest told me. When she came to her parish many yrs ago a gentleman approached her asking her opinion on homosexual Bishop Gene Robinson. When she said she had no problem with it, he seemed offended. Then she asked him what you asked of me. Did he believe in one God? She also asked if he believed in Jesus Christ? When he responded yes, her reply was well so do I! She told him just because they disagree on homosexuality did not mean they could not be part of the same worshiping family. And the man has been in church there ever since worshiping God and His Son Jesus Christ alongside her.

Yes I understand there can only be one ultimate truth. That’s why it drives me absolutely crazy when people on CAF accuse me of relativism.

Really? Re-read what you wrote and then ask yourself how anyone could possibly accuse you of relativism.

The One God knows. But unless we walked with Jesus during the short time He walked this earth and we had correctly understood Him completely, I don’t see how anyone truly knows. They instead walk by faith. Not by sight.

Because Christ promised to remain with his Church and to send the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth. We don’t have to put our faith in man. We put our faith in Jesus and the Holy Spirit because the Church is a divine institution, not a human one.

But you also have to assume and have faith the humans who walked with Jesus understood everything correctly and it was all recorded correctly. And translated correctly. Interpreted correctly. Over time. You even have to have faith the human ECFs with finite minds got it all right. That the councils got it right. And in the CC interpretation of them.

Again, our faith is in Christ, therefore we submit to the teachings of his Church with full confidence that Christ will keep his promises concerning this Church, that it will be guided into all truth.

I’ve been reading today on another subforum about today’s Catholic bishops entertaining the idea of returning to meatless Fridays 365 days a yr. So if the bishops represent teaching authority, why change things? Or were those bishops wrong who were in control when they ok’d meatless Fridays only during Lent?

The Church has always suggested ways in which we can grow in holiness. Making a small sacrifice to be reminded of Christ’s saving sacrifice is a wonderful practice. Meatless Fridays, regardless of whether or not it is just in Lent or every Friday, is completley voluntary and has nothing to do with doctrine so it matters not if a Pope “changes” the practice to every Friday. It use to be every Friday and the Church changed it as an obligation only during lent. Its now being changed back to the way it was and I think its a great idea.

And you have to assume Protestants are wrong. That Christ has never needed to reform His Church.

He reforms from within, through his saints. Leaving the Church to start your own is not a reform, it is a division.

Or as far as I know maybe He transferred authority to them and what they teach is right. Or maybe one of the Lutheran groups or synods is right. Or the Episcopal Church. Or the United Church of Christ. The Disciples of Christ…

Do you not base decisions such as this at least somewhat on reason? What evidence do all of these other communites have that would lead you to ask such a question?

 

[ffg]

“we know for sure what it is, and end of story”.

The One God knows. But unless we walked with Jesus during the short time He walked this earth and we had correctly understood Him completely, I don’t see how anyone truly knows. They instead walk by faith. Not by sight.

You have a fondness I’ve noticed of saying it’s an absolute necessity that teaching be passed on to today’s CC. I can totally understand where you come from. That’s just something about me. God created me I guess to be able to understand different views and beliefs. So I don’t necessarily see why it absolutely would have to be that way. First of all you have to assume and have faith there is not only a Creator but place faith in the NT story of Christ’s death on the cross and in His Resurrection as we both do. But you also have to assume and have faith the humans who walked with Jesus understood everything correctly and it was all recorded correctly. And translated correctly. Interpreted correctly. Over time. You even have to have faith the human ECFs with finite minds got it all right. That the councils got it right. And in the CC interpretation of them. I’ve been reading today on another subforum about today’s Catholic bishops entertaining the idea of returning to meatless Fridays 365 days a yr. So if the bishops represent teaching authority, why change things? Or were those bishops wrong who were in control when they ok’d meatless Fridays only during Lent?

Hi Matt,

Your message here struck me a bit. It seems you write much like myself in that you use more logic and less verse wars.

The area of focus I see with the above is that you are basing your faith in assumptions, not history. It’s very similar to the mindset of Thomas to the rest in the upper room until Jesus stood in front of him.

Faith and reason go hand in hand, it’s just that we want to be careful not to create our own reason (or faith) through “what-if” scenario’s.

Regardless of any person’s (or council’s) actions inside or outside of the Catholic Church since Christ walked the earth, is it not more logical to assume that what the people heard who with with Jesus, did understand his teachings, than to assume they did not?

He didn’t teach and run, they had 3 years to soak it all up.

Jesus also didn’t teach to only 3 or 4, he taught to all who would listen, but had 12 to directly carry on.

And then we have to bring in Pentecost when even after a month or longer perhaps some of those 12 were wary of what they just experienced over the last 3 years, and bam, here it all is again, and help with that translation problem to boot!

Great stuff.

 

[CMatt25]

Really? Re-read what you wrote and then ask yourself how anyone could possibly accuse you of relativism.

Meatless Fridays, regardless of whether or not it is just in Lent or every Friday, is completely voluntary.

Do you not base decisions such as this at least somewhat on reason? What evidence do all of these other communites have that would lead you to ask such a question?

Yes really. You obviously choose to overlook the part about me saying there is one ultimate truth. I just don’t believe we can know with 100% absolute certainty what it is, without faith that we do. There’s a difference between knowing and *believing *we know. And I don’t believe irregardless of what someone believes that they will be saved. Obviously someone is right. Someone is wrong. Or perhaps no human has everything right. I certainly don’t presume I do. Nor even that I’m for certain going to make it to heaven. I pray I do. I believe Christ died for my sins and is my Lord and Savior. I live in hope He finds the life I live warrants obtaining eternal life with Him someday. I’ll have to wait until in faith though I face Him upon my death or His 2nd Coming whichever occurs first. And leave myself to His infinite understanding and mercy before I know for sure if He unlocks the door to heaven for me with His key.

The evidence anyone has is faith.

 

[CMatt25]

Hi Matt,

Your message here struck me a bit. It seems you write much like myself in that you use more logic and less verse wars.

The area of focus I see with the above is that you are basing your faith in assumptions, not history. It’s very similar to the mindset of Thomas to the rest in the upper room until Jesus stood in front of him.

Faith and reason go hand in hand, it’s just that we want to be careful not to create our own reason (or faith) through “what-if” scenario’s.

Regardless of any person’s (or council’s) actions inside or outside of the Catholic Church since Christ walked the earth, is it not more logical to assume that what the people heard who with with Jesus, did understand his teachings, than to assume they did not?

He didn’t teach and run, they had 3 years to soak it all up.

Jesus also didn’t teach to only 3 or 4, he taught to all who would listen, but had 12 to directly carry on.

And then we have to bring in Pentecost when even after a month or longer perhaps some of those 12 were wary of what they just experienced over the last 3 years, and bam, here it all is again, and help with that translation problem to boot!

Great stuff.

Hi Ffg, so you’re saying I should have registered on CAF as Thomas instead?

 

[CMatt25]

Meatless Fridays, regardless of whether or not it is just in Lent or every Friday, is completley voluntary

Then may I ask if it is completely voluntary why am I reading in front of me the 6 traditional precepts of the Catholic Church and #2 is to fast and abstain on the days appointed? In explaining what that means it goes on to speak of days of obligatory abstinence.

 

[ltwin]

I agree with you that the unmarried are called to celiebacy. But I dissagree with the mean spirtited nature of the political right. I do not think it is morally right to treat people with different sexualities more than just homosexuals as the scum of the earth. “we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” “There is none rightoeus no not one”. We are all sinners.

The far right needs a scape-goat group to scare people with, first Catholics, Irish, Jews, Mexicansand african=Americans and now illegal immagrants and homosexual,who will be next?

I don’t agree with the Christian right either. But not all conservative Christians are approaching issues from a political point of view. And most of us do treat homosexuals with love, but you never hear about it. People only focus on the few bigots waving Bibles and condemning everyone to hell.

 

[PJM]

=CMatt25;10280084]Then may I ask if it is completely voluntary why am I reading in front of me the 6 traditional precepts of the Catholic Church and #2 is to fast and abstain on the days appointed? In explaining what that means it goes on to speak of days of obligatory abstinence.

CMatt is RIGHT!

Our Bishops have the Right and the God Given authority to REQUIRE this.

 

[andrewstx]

That can make you a very rigid person. I don’t mean you specifically, anyone who is boxed in that much. I became somewhat like that as well during my years of Fundemental “searching”. As you may know many Protestant denominations forbid or frown upon dancing (most styles) and drums in music. With the drums I was told the beat is too “primal”. That was tough for me as a drummer to hear.

That “undenominational” denomination had only accapela singing, no instruments were allowed at all.

While of course they had the usual puritan strictures against dancing, drinking, smoking, and gambling you would never ever hear a drum.

Actually those forbiddens were practiced on the sly, it is ok to do those things if you feel vaguely guilty. And being southern most of them smoked like trains. It was still ok as long as you condemend those who did them openly.

 

[andrewstx]

I don’t agree with the Christian right either. But not all conservative Christians are approaching issues from a political point of view. And most of us do treat homosexuals with love, but you never hear about it. People only focus on the few bigots waving Bibles and condemning everyone to hell.

I pretty much agree with you. And it is certain that mostly what you hear is about Baptist preacher Phelps who seems to think every one is homosexual and goes around with his family picketing funerals of men who die in wars.

 

[plainatheart71]

Yes, as a former Protestant (I consider myself Catholic because I am on my way home) it did bother me & my husband greatly. Mainly because in 7 years we had been to 6 churches. And none of them could agree. And 2 of them were from the same Association.

 

[adf417]

Yes, as a former Protestant (I consider myself Catholic because I am on my way home) it did bother me & my husband greatly. Mainly because in 7 years we had been to 6 churches. And none of them could agree. And 2 of them were from the same Association.

Welcome home! And may I be the 1st Catholic to disagree with you.…Our Sunday choir is just fine as it is.

Peace abound!!!

 

[CMatt25]

CMatt is RIGHT!

But that can’t be right. The person who said it was voluntary is a Catholic and CMatt’s listed religion isn’t.