Are Protestants going to Heaven?

[exiled]

If Jesus gave Peter the keys and said “whatever you bind will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose etc” then logically if the church decides something, Christ has to honor it no?

---

I didn’t read the whole thread, so perhaps someone has responded to this already, and surely someone else out there can speak to this better than I can.
It would be inaccurate to say Christ “has to honor” what Peter and his successors say. The papacy honors Christ’s teachings, and the Holy Spirit has protected those dogmatic teachings through the years.
In the cases of indulgence (does Chris have to honor them?) abuse you have to understand that a penitent heart is always a pre-requisite to an indulgence, as well as confession, etc. We become more Christ-like with the spiritual exercises that an indulgence demands. (going to Mass, assorted prayers) God is not bound by any of us, much less an unrepentent, hypocritical heart. He is not fooled by any of us.

 

[Beyrak]

As a Protestant I’m interested to know whether Catholics believe Protestants will be going to heaven or not.

(Waiting to find out if Heaven or Hell awaits)
Rev13_16

If a protestant took the time to come to this forum, they probably know that the Catholic Church can be traced back to the times of Christ, where Christ instituted the Church. They may be in denial and deny it, but that doesn’t change a thing.

Protestantism is only an imitation, and only a casual student of history should realize this. So if one is on this forum, I believe that they are no longer in ignorance and will be held accountable.

Why argue or gamble with your eternal soul? Protestants do not have the apostolic, so they do not have Christ in their confession booth to give them absolution. It’s not a priest in that booth, IT IS JESUS CHRIST! And for a human being to think that they don’t need anyone but themselves to go straight to God and confess are ignoring Christ’s own teachings. My reasoning are the following scriptures which drives protestants batty;

Matthew 16:18…And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19…And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Jesus Christ himself started the Catholic Church. So who is the heretic? Jesus Christ, or Martin Luther and John Calvin the ones most responsible for the Catholic Church dividing, fracturing, and splintering until you now have over 33,000 protestant denominations? That in itself should be enough evidence to put doubt in any reasonable, critically thinking person. I don’t think Christ is the heretic.

I’m a protestant convert. I once thought the Catholic Church was so far off base. But it was because I had been lied to by protestants (including my parents) who did not understand or want to understand the true Church! That makes me angry! How dare they lie to me all my life! But in the next breath, I need to pray for them to see the light as I did.

Read about, study, and even watch videos about the Saints. You don’t see any protestant churches that can produce the miracles and blessings the Saints have brought us. There is a reason for this, and that’s because the Saints understood and had the full faith, not fragments and half truths of it.

 

[Revelation13_16]

I’d be interested to hear your conversion testimony Beyrak.

Love,
Rev

 

[Mijoy2]

Hi CA,

As a Protestant I’m interested to know whether Catholics believe Protestants will be going to heaven or not.

Before you answer, I have some sketchy details that around 50-60 years ago the Catholic church took a ‘kinder’ view to Protestants than before, is this true or have I heard incorrectly.

Thanks.

(Waiting to find out if Heaven or Hell awaits)
Rev13_16

Hi Rev13_16, Interesting question. The answer to this quesiton has a great deal to do with my remaining Catholic after spending considerable time listening to Evangelical Protestants.

Protestants (at least most denominations, it is a difficult thing to generalize regarding protestant doctrine since there are conflicting doctrine amonst the protestant community), believe virtually the vast majority of the people on earth will ultimately find thier reward in Hell. This of course includes but is not limited to all Jews, Muslims Hindus agnostics, atheists and more. Regardless of how loving and committed they may be to thier respective beliefs (or non-beliefs), regardless of thier background and reasons for thier respective beliefs.

The doctrine is clear on this point, anyone who has not professed that Jesus is thier Lord and Savior will (assuming there is no change in this state) not be saved. The protestants I listened to were unequivical on this matter. They left no room for hope. This idea tore at my soul. Until, I discovered what Catholics believe. God, and only God makes this decision. We are not even to speculate on His judgement. The judgement of one’s soul is left to God. And I thank God for that.

I tried and tried and tried to make sense of this protestant doctrine as I listened intently to some very popular and respected protestant theologians. One protestant theologian is the host of probably the most popular radio Q and A show in America. Callers would call and question this doctrine. Many of thier hearts ripped open because of loved one’s who have not accepted Jesus as thier Lord and Savior in some ceremoneous fasion. The host would not wavier. He’d state, with a certain (but not enough in my opinion) regret in his voice, that, “yes” in fact these huge segments of society are damned if they do not repent and accept Jesus as thier Lord and Savior. This held true even for those who never heard the Good News as well as those who were brought up in another faith, remained true to this faith, honored thier mothers and fathers in holding fast to thier heritage and beliefs. This, was of no excuse. Thier outcome was sealed (again, unless they changed).

As I said this topic was paramount for me. I lost many a night’s sleep lying awake counting the good people I loved dearly who were going to experience an eternity burning in Hell (no sense sugar coating words here).

Thank God for our Church, thank God for His mercy, thank God for the Catholic Faith.

 

[Revelation13_16]

Hi Mijoy2, thanks for your great and personal response.

The Protestant view may seem harsh because there is no middle ground between heaven and hell, but it’s important to remember that Protestants base all this on 66 books, so they don’t have room to be creative.

Jesus often refered to the two ways, the narrow and difficult and the wide way - this seems to indicate a small number overall from history going to heaven, with the masses going to hell.

I know, I know it’s utterly gut-wrenching, “the problem of hell” is right up there with “the problem of evil” as perhaps the two biggest stumbling blocks stopping people from coming to the faith.

But the truth doesn’t change according to our ability to stomach it.

The question then is “which is true?”

You chose Catholicism because if I read correctly, because God decides.

But if God can’t contradict himself, and he says in the New Testament such things as “You must be born again”, “I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the father but by me”, and the many other passages that indicate an unbelief of Jesus as God = Hell, I really don’t see how saying “God will decide” is anything but a false hope, since God has decided when his spirit moved the NT authors.

I don’t know, what do you think about this?

Love,
Rev

 

[jemfinch]

If Jesus gave Peter the keys and said “whatever you bind will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose etc” then logically if the church decides something, Christ has to honor it no?

It was answered. You should read the whole thread

Jeremy

 

[6glargento]

Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: “There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice.”

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra:

“With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin… Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra:

“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”

i think this answers the question

 

[mikew262]

Quote me exactly where it says that.

Post #2 CCC is about who can be called a Christian and part of the Catholic Church, even if loosely or at least not fully.

It is CCC 846 and 847 that talk about who might be saved and not CCC 818 and 848.

**CCC 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.**1

Protestants are seeking God with a sincere heart, and it’s not their fault if they sincerely believe the Catholic Church is not the road to heaven.

Now, can we end this talk about if you are not part of the Church you cannot obtain salvation? No doubt, you’ll have some rebuttal, but I think this cinches it.

 

[Stephen_C]

**CCC 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.**1

Protestants are seeking God with a sincere heart, and it’s not their fault if they sincerely believe the Catholic Church is not the road to heaven.

Now, can we end this talk about if you are not part of the Church you cannot obtain salvation? No doubt, you’ll have some rebuttal, but I think this cinches it.

This sums it up. Thanks mike!..now let’s all move on.

 

[Gamera]

Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra: “There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice.”

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra:

“With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin… Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra:

“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”

i think this answers the question

No. Ex Cathedra means more than “appears in a papal encyclical.”

We need to read each quoted encyclical, not just the verses quoted, to understand the true nature of what is being said. For instance, Unam Sanctam says that one must “be subject to” the Roman Pontiff — NOT “submit to” the Roman Pontiff. Not the same thing. Baptized Protestants are “subject to” the Roman Pontiff even though they don’t submit to his authority. Nothing appears in Unam Sanctam that isn’t embodied in the phrase, “outside the Church there is no salvation,” which we know encompasses all baptized people.

 

[Mijoy2]

But if God can’t contradict himself, and he says in the New Testament such things as “You must be born again”, “I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the father but by me”, and the many other passages that indicate an unbelief of Jesus as God = Hell, I really don’t see how saying “God will decide” is anything but a false hope, since God has decided when his spirit moved the NT authors.

I don’t know, what do you think about this?

Love,
Rev

Hello again Rev,

“you must be born again”, Not pretending to be either an apologist or a theologeon, I believe this statement means exactly what it says. We are born with original sin, this sin is washed away at baptism into the faith, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are born again.

“I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me”, Rev, I don’t see anywhere in this statement that Jesus is requiring belief in Him to get to heaven. Jesus is stating that through Him and through Him only is the path to Heaven. All, will see Jesus after they pass from this world. This is, I believe, Catholic teaching.

Protestants, seem to hold hard and fast to some things Jesus says and pass other things off as allegory. Such as “in order to have eternal life you must eat of my flesh and drink of my blood” (apologize if this is loosly quoted).

For this reason Rev, we need the guidence of the Holy Spirit to discern just what the text says. Protestants say they get this guidence indivually, just between themself and the Holy Spirit. Yet any two protestants come up with two different meanings. Catholics can trust in the authority of the Church. Thankfully I don’t have to pain over what was meant. I don’t have to struggle over whether Jesus actually meant we MUST believe in Him to get to the Father by Him. I don’t have to struggle with whether or not Jesus meant we should eat of His flesh and drink of His blood. If I did have to pain over the Truth behind these scriptural meanings, I’d likely see it one way on any given day and another way on the next. I am the sort of individual who could never be a politician because I am easily swayed but an articulate well-meaning person. I’d flip flop so quickly I’d never get single vote.

But I don’t have to struggle with this Rev, because I have the Chruch to make these decisions for me with the guidence of the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised.

Hope this helps,
–Mike

 

[exiled]

It was answered. You should read the whole thread

Jeremy

Well, I do hope you’ll forgive me. I read in brief moments while raising/homeschooling my 6 (so far) children. As the distinction was important, I didn’t want to take the chance that it would go unclarified.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

I don’t remember reading that particular passage in my Catechism. To me, it seemed to say, “Anyone who’s baptized with a valid Trinitarian baptism is in some manner united with the Church.” I believe it’s been quoted here earlier in this thread.

Yes. Then that person must die in a state of Grace, with proper faith and charity. Something very difficult to obtain without the Sacraments (especially Confession).

As I’m sure you know, a grave state does not itself constitute mortal sin and a severing of the lifeline of supernatural grace.

The Catholic Church has concluded that human beings are born with the knowledge of Good and Evil. Any protestant who is baptized in the Trinitarian form (and thus somewhat connected with the Church) who knowingly commits a sin is therefore bereft of Grace and finds himself in a very bad situation…

Only the living members of the Church (the members of the Church in a State of Grace) can be saved.

The Catholic Church alone contains the fulness of the truth of Jesus Christ. Don’t forget that “in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.”

We must also bear in mind that the same passages in the Bible that encourage us to remain in the Catholic Church (“Obey your leaders and submit to them…”) would encourage a Protestant, raised as a Protestant, to remain in his Church. I think that’s why James says that not many Christians should be teachers. Don’t forget the end of that passage from Hebrews: “for they are keeping watch over your souls, as ones who will have to give an account.” Many Protestant leaders will have to give an account for their deception of their flock, but I think many of the flock will be spared for abiding by biblical principles, even though their leaders were false.

We know that the Catholic Church contains the Sacraments of Salvation. God has given his gift, and has provided fine ministers (like CA for example) to make that gift believable. The rest is in the hands of humans…

And, while we’re boiling it down, many people born into Protestant sects have never willingly separated from Mother Church. They were born in schism, they lived in schism, and they died in schism, very possibly through no fault of their own.

Your right. Many Protestants are born in their setting, and often times live and die in that setting. While it may seem unfair…if the Sin of Adam can affect his children…the sin of Luther can affect his followers down to the last generation.

God wouldnt tell us to go baptize sinners if leaving them in ignorance would have left them better off…

 

[M_Oliver]

Hi CA,

As a Protestant I’m interested to know whether Catholics believe Protestants will be going to heaven or not.

Before you answer, I have some sketchy details that around 50-60 years ago the Catholic church took a ‘kinder’ view to Protestants than before, is this true or have I heard incorrectly.

Thanks.

(Waiting to find out if Heaven or Hell awaits)
Rev13_16

Do you not BELIEVE the Scriptures…

For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.
(1 Timothy 4:10 KJVR)

 

[M_Oliver]

Hi CA,

As a Protestant I’m interested to know whether Catholics believe Protestants will be going to heaven or not.

Before you answer, I have some sketchy details that around 50-60 years ago the Catholic church took a ‘kinder’ view to Protestants than before, is this true or have I heard incorrectly.

Thanks.

(Waiting to find out if Heaven or Hell awaits)
Rev13_16

Do you not BELIEVE the Scriptures…

For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.
(1 Timothy 4:10 KJVR)

 

[jemfinch]

Any protestant who is baptized in the Trinitarian form (and thus somewhat connected with the Church) who knowingly commits a sin is therefore bereft of Grace and finds himself in a very bad situation…

You’re still missing a key component in moving from grave matter to mortal sin: full knowledge. In order to sin mortally, a person must not only have full knowledge that he’s sinning, but full knowledge that in so doing he is sinning gravely. The attitude and teaching of many Protestant churches diminishes the severity of factiousness and divisiveness such that even a Protestant who feels like he should become Catholic may not know that if he refuses, he’s sinning gravely.

Jeremy

 

[Revelation13_16]

Do you not BELIEVE the Scriptures…

For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.
(1 Timothy 4:10 KJVR)

Are you saying if I believe in Jesus I’ll be saved irrespective of what Chruch I attend?

Love,
Rev

 

[Revelation13_16]

“I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me”, Rev, I don’t see anywhere in this statement that Jesus is requiring belief in Him to get to heaven. Jesus is stating that through Him and through Him only is the path to Heaven. All, will see Jesus after they pass from this world. This is, I believe, Catholic teaching.

Hi Mike,

So you’re saying after death, everyone goes through Jesus, some to the Father & Heaven, others to Hell?

Love,
Rev

 

[thistle]

Hi Mike,

So you’re saying after death, everyone goes through Jesus, some to the Father & Heaven, others to Hell?

Love,
Rev

Below is what happens immediately upon death.

THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT

CCC 1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ. The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul–a destiny which can be different for some and for others.

CCC 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately, – or immediate and everlasting damnation.

 

[Revelation13_16]

Below is what happens immediately upon death.

THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT

CCC 1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ. The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul–a destiny which can be different for some and for others.

CCC 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately, – or immediate and everlasting damnation.

Thankyou, CCC1022 makes it clear.

Love,
Rev