Are Rebbes considered infallible in Judaism?

[Ben_Sinner]

So I was wondering if Judaism had something like Papal Infallibility.

I came across this on Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infallibility#cite_note-5

In the Hassidic tradition, however, infallibility is taught in the Chabad tradition in connection with a Rebbe.[5]

…which then links to these pages:

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/08/tzaddik-is-sure-or-else.html
2. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2007/10/infallible.html

“We see from here that certain Tzaddikim (not all perhaps, for it is possible for a Tzaddik not to have the level of Yechidah shine in him; in fact, this phenomenon appears to be present only for a very high level of Tzaddik) not only do not sin or even desire to sin (as discussed in Tanya; see chs. 1, 11) but they also do not err.”

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/07/infallible-2.html
2. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/07/infallible-3.html

*'A Chossid accepts the words of his Rebbe fully and unconditionally with pure emunas Tzadikimas as emes laamitoi (the absolute truth). If he is indeed a Chossid, he has not the slightest shadow of doubt that what he is told by his Rebbe is Shechina medaberes mi’toch grono (the Shechinah speaking from the throat) of the Rebbe. Does he understand what his Rebbe says? Not necessarily. But his approach is not predicated upon intellect, but upon emunah.

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2007/08/simply-repeating-what-he-heard-in-gan.html

“The Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe taught:
The concept of a Rebbe is to reveal down here [in this physical world] what he heard in Gan Eden. The Rebbe is the “I stand between G-d and you at that time to tell you the Word of G-d,” (Devarim 5:5) as is written of Moses, our teacher. “To tell you” means “to draw down to you” the Word of G-d.
Likutei Dibburim, vol. 4, p. 1408.”

“Put differently, a Rebbe does not say a word of his own. This also appears to imply the concept of the Tzaddik’s infallibility.”

So my question is…does Judaism have Papal Infallibility amongst their Rebbes?..And if they believe that…what are we as Catholics supposed to make and counter it with since we claim our religion has Papal Infallibility as well?*

 

[Ben_Sinner]

And here are more points of emphasis from Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebbe

“The rebbe as tzadik[edit]
According to Maimonides,[7] a tzadik is “one whose merit surpasses [his/her] iniquity”, and every person can reach the level of a Tzadik. According to the Tanya, a tzadik has no evil inclination, and only a select few predestined to attain this level can attain it. …These people are understood to have perfected their personal service of God to such an extent that they become literally and physically aware of God. These righteous people’s perception (of both spiritual and physical, not to mention temporal matters) transcends the apparent boundaries of existence.”

“However, a hasidic rebbe is generally said to be a righteous person, called a “tzaddik”.[2] Furthermore, a rebbe is said to be able to affect divine providence, and a rebbe is said to be able to “see the future”, or at least have strong insight into the life and trials of another.”

*“Unlike rabbis or non-hasidic rebbes in other Jewish movements, hasidic Judaism considers a ‘hasidic rebbe’ to be a conduit between Jews and God.[2] On the basis of traditional Kabbalistic concepts and terminology, Hasidic philosophy bridged deveikut, a Jewish concept referring to closeness to God, to the hasidic rebbe, embodying and channeling the Divine flow of blessing to the world, because Creation is dependent on the continuous flow of Divine lifeforce, without which it would revert to nothingness.[8]”
*

 

[GFresa9]

So I was wondering if Judaism had something like Papal Infallibility.

I came across this on Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infallibility#cite_note-5

In the Hassidic tradition, however, infallibility is taught in the Chabad tradition in connection with a Rebbe.[5]

…which then links to these pages:

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/08/tzaddik-is-sure-or-else.html
2. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2007/10/infallible.html

“We see from here that certain Tzaddikim (not all perhaps, for it is possible for a Tzaddik not to have the level of Yechidah shine in him; in fact, this phenomenon appears to be present only for a very high level of Tzaddik) not only do not sin or even desire to sin (as discussed in Tanya; see chs. 1, 11) but they also do not err.”

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/07/infallible-2.html
2. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/07/infallible-3.html

*'A Chossid accepts the words of his Rebbe fully and unconditionally with pure emunas Tzadikimas as emes laamitoi (the absolute truth). If he is indeed a Chossid, he has not the slightest shadow of doubt that what he is told by his Rebbe is Shechina medaberes mi’toch grono (the Shechinah speaking from the throat) of the Rebbe. Does he understand what his Rebbe says? Not necessarily. But his approach is not predicated upon intellect, but upon emunah.

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2007/08/simply-repeating-what-he-heard-in-gan.html*

“The Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe taught:
The concept of a Rebbe is to reveal down here [in this physical world] what he heard in Gan Eden. The Rebbe is the “I stand between G-d and you at that time to tell you the Word of G-d,” (Devarim 5:5) as is written of Moses, our teacher. “To tell you” means “to draw down to you” the Word of G-d.
Likutei Dibburim, vol. 4, p. 1408.”

“Put differently, a Rebbe does not say a word of his own. This also appears to imply the concept of the Tzaddik’s infallibility.”

So my question is…does Judaism have Papal Infallibility amongst their Rebbes?..And if they believe that…what are we as Catholics supposed to make and counter it with since we claim our religion has Papal Infallibility as well?

There are numerous sects of Judaism that follow their own particular theology. I was raised in the Moroccan Sephardi custom; but as compared to an Italian Sephardi, I’m entirely different. I’ll say from personal experience that infallibility is a trait only possessed by G-d and certainly not by man. Whether or not those Jews in the Chabad movement concur, the prophets, those most noble amongst us committed sin and therefore cannot be without flaw.

Sincerely,
Your Jewish Neighbor

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

On a lighter note, I remember reading a remark that if you were to ask a question of nine rabbis, you’d get ten opinions. Perhaps this is less true within a specific Hassidic community.

 

[meltzerboy]

So I was wondering if Judaism had something like Papal Infallibility.

I came across this on Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infallibility#cite_note-5

In the Hassidic tradition, however, infallibility is taught in the Chabad tradition in connection with a Rebbe.[5]

…which then links to these pages:

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/08/tzaddik-is-sure-or-else.html
2. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2007/10/infallible.html

“We see from here that certain Tzaddikim (not all perhaps, for it is possible for a Tzaddik not to have the level of Yechidah shine in him; in fact, this phenomenon appears to be present only for a very high level of Tzaddik) not only do not sin or even desire to sin (as discussed in Tanya; see chs. 1, 11) but they also do not err.”

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/07/infallible-2.html
2. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2008/07/infallible-3.html

*'A Chossid accepts the words of his Rebbe fully and unconditionally with pure emunas Tzadikimas as emes laamitoi (the absolute truth). If he is indeed a Chossid, he has not the slightest shadow of doubt that what he is told by his Rebbe is Shechina medaberes mi’toch grono (the Shechinah speaking from the throat) of the Rebbe. Does he understand what his Rebbe says? Not necessarily. But his approach is not predicated upon intellect, but upon emunah.

1. tzaddikim.blogspot.com/2007/08/simply-repeating-what-he-heard-in-gan.html*

“The Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe taught:
The concept of a Rebbe is to reveal down here [in this physical world] what he heard in Gan Eden. The Rebbe is the “I stand between G-d and you at that time to tell you the Word of G-d,” (Devarim 5:5) as is written of Moses, our teacher. “To tell you” means “to draw down to you” the Word of G-d.
Likutei Dibburim, vol. 4, p. 1408.”

“Put differently, a Rebbe does not say a word of his own. This also appears to imply the concept of the Tzaddik’s infallibility.”

So my question is…does Judaism have Papal Infallibility amongst their Rebbes?..And if they believe that…what are we as Catholics supposed to make and counter it with since we claim our religion has Papal Infallibility as well?

A Tzaddik would be able to give you a much better answer than I can. I am aware of the authoritative position of certain Rebbes. But it seems to me that the notion of infallibility, which often appears to go beyond religious and moral matters, is something that should be reserved for G-d in keeping with Jewish teaching. Moreover, rabbis constantly disagree on many religious matters and debate is a tradition in Talmudic circles. The result is that one Rebbe who is highly revered in a given Orthodox Jewish community may not be the one who is revered so highly in another Orthodox (or less orthodox) community. Unlike Catholicism, Judaism does not have a single ultimate authority concerning religious issues, particularly for those issues that are very intricate and complex.

 

[Ben_Sinner]

I noticed this part more closely:

"We see from here that certain Tzaddikim (not all perhaps, for it is possible for a Tzaddik not to have the level of Yechidah shine in him; in fact, this phenomenon appears to be present only for a very high level of Tzaddik) not only do not sin or even desire to sin (as discussed in Tanya; see chs. 1, 11) but they also do not err.

Is it a belief in any sect of Judaism that Rebbes can be sinless and without even a desire to sin?

 

[howirenic]

Today, there’s no Jewish equivalent to the Magisterium, so “Rebbe infallibility” would not be a compatible doctrine.

The teachings of Chabad Chassidut are quite unique and controversial in the larger world of rabbinical (Orthodox) Judaism. I would not use them as an overall representation of Chassidic thought.

It’s true that the most recent Lubavitcher Rebbe is widely revered by his followers, with many proclaiming him to be the Messiah. In general, however, Rebbes carry strong influence only in their own circles, and do not assume to have positions of absolute authority over their followers.