Are Roman Catholics too senstive?

[RobHom]

Oh… I understand Luther’s view on the Eucharist and his debate with Zwingli. Are you trying to imply that Luther believed like you do as a Roman Catholic Christian?

Since he is long dead, and he can’t answer, I can’t say exactly what he believed in the end…but considering that he was a Monk and a Priest…Roman Catholic at that, before nailing up the 95 thesis… I would have to venture a bit of a guess that probably yes, quite a bit. On the other hand, I have not read absolutely everything he has ever written, so if he changed his “beliefs” later in life…I really couldn’t say. Our Lutheran Brother’s and Sister’s could answer that best

Edit: My apologies Jon, I didn’t see your post where you explained it.

 

[underdog]

I think it would be safe to say that, other than the sacrifice of the mass, which was and, I believe to a lesser extent, still is a point of discussion, Luther and the early Lutherans considered the matter of Transub. to be something not of huge importance. So, yes, in large though not complete measure, he did.

Luther

Jon

Please continue with Luther’s quotes on the sacraments.

 

[WindGirl]

Truth belongs to God, and He entrusted the Catholic Church with safeguarding the Truth. So you’re wrong, the fullness of the Truth does belong to a specific community, the Catholic Church.

If you ask me, we aren’t nearly sensitive enough. This online community is not representative of the majority of Catholics who are very apathetic and hardly attend Church.

You’re entitled to your opinion but not everyone shares it… No offense but it really sounds very arrogant. God’s truth is right in His written word and any Christan home has one.

 

[RubyT]

Might you not consider your own advice…? Based on some of your prior comments regarding the issue it seems that your agenda includes fomenting unrest over that very point. Just my :twocents:

How can there be “dispute or contention” over this issue, Christ spoke very clearly, and His Word is paramount:

From here: drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=25&f=s#x

**24 And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. 25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep. **

That’s not too tricky to understand now, is it?

Thanks RobHom, My sentiments exactly. Underdog please understand that going to Mass and receiving the Eucharist is not a burdon. It is a gift from God, a true blessing which Christ Himself requested of us to do in rememberance of Him. Today I went to Mass and received the Eucharist; my whole body was filled with a physical warming sensation and I cried tears of joy right in church. If you truly desire to know Christ you will do this in rememberance of Him.

I pray in Jesus name, Heavenly Father please disclose to Underdog your truth. Please give him understanding of Your Word, the Holy Scriptures. May he be blessed with the knowledge and wisdom of Your Word. Thank you Heavenly Father. Amen

Have a very Merry Christmas! :christmastree1:

 

[RobHom]

You’re entitled to your opinion but not everyone shares it…

This is true and a fair statement as long as you realize that the same applies both ways.

No offense but it really sounds very arrogant.

Actually its not a statement made out of “arrogance”. If one applies that particular polemic…where Catholics are concerned, is it not fair to place the same upon non-Catholics who dispute and deny Catholicism while stating “they possess the truth”?

God’s truth is right in His written word and any Christan home has one.

How can you know that for sure? I’m not being insincere or obnoxious… I’m asking a real question. I’m asking it because I frankly have serious issues over which Bibles are even close to being true to the scriptures. Their have been many “editorial” changes made since the middle ages…and I’m not convinced that the “theologians” were necessarily being true to the original scriptures… especially when you consider the Apocryphal books and their veracity…and even further when the Dead Sea Scrolls proved their veracity, yet the bulk of non-Catholic bibles do not contain them, and many non-Catholics think of them as “folly” to use a polite word.

Peace!!

 

[underdog]

Thanks RobHom, My sentiments exactly. Underdog please understand that going to Mass and receiving the Eucharist is not a burdon. It is a gift from God, a true blessing which Christ Himself requested of us to do in rememberance of Him. Today I went to Mass and received the Eucharist; my whole body was filled with a physical warming sensation and I cried tears of joy right in church. If you truly desire to know Christ you will do this in rememberance of Him.

I pray in Jesus name, Heavenly Father please disclose to Underdog your truth. Please give him understanding of Your Word, the Holy Scriptures. May he be blessed with the knowledge and wisdom of Your Word. Thank you Heavenly Father. Amen

Have a very Merry Christmas! :christmastree1:

In light of 1 Cor 11, the Lord’s Supper or communion is very significant to the Non-Catholic Christian as well. We call it the Lord’s Supper because it is a sacrament of the Lord, and it does not belong exclusively to the Roman Catholic community.

The Lord’s Supper
17 But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, [4] 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 20 When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.

23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for [5] you. Do this in remembrance of me.” [6] 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. [7] 31 But if we judged [8] ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined [9] so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

33 So then, my brothers, [10] when you come together to eat, wait for [11] one another— 34 if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment. About the other things I will give directions when I come.

 

[WindGirl]

This is true and a fair statement as long as you realize that the same applies both ways.

Yes, it usually does. No matter what is being discussed, either side can always come back to “that’s just your opinion.”

Actually its not a statement made out of “arrogance”. If one applies that particular polemic…where Catholics are concerned, is it not fair to place the same upon non-Catholics who dispute and deny Catholicism while stating “they possess the truth”?

No, arrogance isn’t limited to Catholicism. I guess it’s just the way the statements come across sometimes. I don’t know if it’s intentional or not. Yes, I believe I have the truth and, yes, I disagree with Catholicism but I really have no desire to be arrogant about it.

How can you know that for sure? I’m not being insincere or obnoxious… I’m asking a real question. I’m asking it because I frankly have serious issues over which Bibles are even close to being true to the scriptures. Their have been many “editorial” changes made since the middle ages…and I’m not convinced that the “theologians” were necessarily being true to the original scriptures… especially when you consider the Apocryphal books and their veracity…and even further when the Dead Sea Scrolls proved their veracity, yet the bulk of non-Catholic bibles do not contain them, and many non-Catholics think of them as “folly” to use a polite word.

Peace!!

Guess I’d have to say I accept the Bible on faith and am not as concerned about the things you mentioned as you are. God did promise to preserve His words and did say His word would stand forever. As you show, though, we don’t all agree on what it is.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

emarc;4545378:

Does fullness of truth simply mean partaking in the literal flesh and actual blood of Jesus Christ? For most non-Christians, we do not believe that Jesus Christ will literally leave the right hand of God to sacrifice Himself on the Catholic altar when Catholic or Orthodox Priests call Him down to the various altars. If you study John 6 in context, you might understand the non-Cathoic Christian’s position. I think Jesus Christ has more important things to do than coming down to the catholic altar over and over and over again. I don’t mean to fight anyone over this issue, but this is how non-Catholics understand this sacrament. Actually, there are various views on this sacrament within non-Catholic Christians. I used to attend a church who partook in the Lord’s Supper every Sunday as a means of grace. Some Protestant churches have a very high view of communion, but not as high of a view where Jesus Christ comes down from Heaven to offer Himself on the Catholic altar over and over again. In regards to the OP, it will be interesting to see the reaction to this post. Will everyone over-react?

Hmmm, on another thread you said you believed communion was the real flesh and blood of Christ. But then we’re discussing truth here.

npatrol:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Does fullness of truth simply mean partaking in the literal flesh and actual blood of Jesus Christ? For most non-Christians, we do not believe that Jesus Christ will literally leave the right hand of God to sacrifice Himself on the Catholic altar when Catholic or Orthodox Priests call Him down to the various altars. If you study John 6 in context, you might understand the non-Cathoic Christian’s position. I think Jesus Christ has more important things to do than coming down to the catholic altar over and over and over again. I don’t mean to fight anyone over this issue, but this is how non-Catholics understand this sacrament. Actually, there are various views on this sacrament within non-Catholic Christians. I used to attend a church who partook in the Lord’s Supper every Sunday as a means of grace. Some Protestant churches have a very high view of communion, but not as high of a view where Jesus Christ comes down from Heaven to offer Himself on the Catholic altar over and over again. In regards to the OP, it will be interesting to see the reaction to this post. Will everyone over-react?

Hmmm, on another thread you said you believed communion was the real flesh and blood of Christ. But then we’re discussing truth here.

npatrol:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Do you understand that their is a difference between Roman Catholic and catholic, right?

FYI… the score has changed to 22 for yes and maybe against 19 for no. The catholics are winning the poll, in contrast to the Roman Catholics. Don’t feel bad, the catholic church includes Roman Catholics too.

Reformed,

Do you remember, before you were banned as Reformed, you made the same exact argument? Aren’t you nervous you’re revealing too much truth by continuing it again?

I thought polls were about collecting opinions. But you seem to be playing a win or lose game with it. I have difficulty seeing the Christian charity coming through with this thread, Can you show me where scriptures tell you to bash another Christian faith?

 

[RobHom]

Yes, it usually does. No matter what is being discussed, either side can always come back to “that’s just your opinion.”

And such is the way of humans. And since we are aware of this, we can strive to avoid these pitfalls…

No, arrogance isn’t limited to Catholicism. I guess it’s just the way the statements come across sometimes. I don’t know if it’s intentional or not. Yes, I believe I have the truth and, yes, I disagree with Catholicism but I really have no desire to be arrogant about it.

I honestly don’t think that the majority of posters do it intentionally, but instead that its a function of the fact that you and I cannot see each other or anyone else, therefore we have no voice to hear…or body language to read…so it is all too easy for us to inflect our own perceptions into another persons words. Its a true pitfall in these forums…

That you disagree is OK, as I am sure that there are beliefs that you hold dear that I may not or will not agree with… but that’s OK, because we’re human and allowed to disagree…but, its incumbent upon all of us to remember what we are supposed to be doing as Christians, yes?

Guess I’d have to say I accept the Bible on faith and am not as concerned about the things you mentioned as you are. God did promise to preserve His words and did say His word would stand forever. As you show, though, we don’t all agree on what it is.

You will find that we too accept much on faith, especially those things that are of our beliefs that are not specifically defined in the scriptures. My concerns as far as bibles are concerned is the fact that some, not all, have been altered by certain religions, and others have been slightly modified linguistically which has altered the context and meanings of some passages. That is why I personally prefer to use the Douay-Rheims which is a direct translation of the Latin Vulgate which was translated by Saint Jerome from the original manuscripts. Just a “personal preference”…

Peace!!

 

[RobHom]

Reformed,

Do you remember, before you were banned as Reformed, you made the same exact argument? Aren’t you nervous you’re revealing too much truth by continuing it again?

I thought polls were about collecting opinions. But you seem to be playing a win or lose game with it. I have difficulty seeing the Christian charity coming through with this thread, Can you show me where scriptures tell you to bash another Christian faith?

You know…I had begun to ask myself the same things…

 

[Ag_not]

Reformed,

Do you remember, before you were banned as Reformed, you made the same exact argument? Aren’t you nervous you’re revealing too much truth by continuing it again?

He also liked to cut and paste huge tracts from Romans - bit like he did on the scriptural challenge thread. Just a big piece of Scripture and a question. Nothing else. You can change the name, but you can’t change the M.O. huh?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

He also liked to cut and paste huge tracts from Romans - bit like he did on the scriptural challenge thread. Just a big piece of Scripture and a question. Nothing else. You can change the name, but you can’t change the M.O. huh?

npatrol:

 

[RobHom]

He also liked to cut and paste huge tracts from Romans - bit like he did on the scriptural challenge thread. Just a big piece of Scripture and a question. Nothing else. You can change the name, but you can’t change the M.O. huh?

You got dat right!!!

 

[RubyT]

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. Here’s what He said 2,000 years ago.

John 14:6

And Jesus also said, 2000 years ago:
Luke22:19 “Do this in remembrance of me”.

Cor. 11:25 “drink it in remembrance of me”.

So if you hold the above scripture (which you quoted) as truth you would also hold the scripture (I quoted) as truth. You would actually follow Jesus in everything He said. Your argument is with Jesus, not the Roman Catholic Church. Jesus was speaking symbolically at the last supper. That means flesh and blood are figurative. Before you ask, yes this is RCC doctrine.

I never said the Roman Catholic church had a monopoly on the Last supper. How did you extrapolate that? Clearly your thinking perpetuates distorted falsehood in what others are trying to convey to you. lol

I think what you call too sensitive is really *a response *to your self appointed truth, ie.underdog thinks the scripture is saying such and such and therefore it is truth. This in conjuncture with the omission of relevant scriptual elements in your opinions which you provide us is rather pompous. This is evidenced by your repeated retorts which lack credible discussion. Why does it lack credible discussion? Because you simply quote scripture to make your point or ask if this is RCC doctrine. Thus you are not really making a point at all. I can read my Bible without your help. So what are you offering as discussion?

We sincerely try to have intelligent discussion with you. We send you to links that support our positions which you subsequently ignore. What was your motivation for asking this question; are RCs’ too sensitive? Is it because of the responses you get from us in your threads? Are we too sensitive because we react to being ignored and react to having our statements extrapolated with false retorts? Reacting to this is not sensitivity my friend, it is called dissent.

Had you phrased the question this way: Are Roman Catholics executing dissent with non catholic christians. You would have an overwhemling YES.

This thread is clearly trying to incite sensitivity in RCC but we aren’t falling prey. I am not too sensitive, I am amused ", thanks for always providing me with a smile.

Again more prayers for you underdog.

 

[RubyT]

He also liked to cut and paste huge tracts from Romans - bit like he did on the scriptural challenge thread. Just a big piece of Scripture and a question. Nothing else. You can change the name, but you can’t change the M.O. huh?

Yep, but without the comic strip. Ya gotta laugh. :whacky:

 

[underdog]

Hmmm, on another thread you said you believed communion was the real flesh and blood of Christ. But then we’re discussing truth here.

npatrol:

How about posting the link if what you are claiming?

 

[underdog]

Yep, but without the comic strip. Ya gotta laugh. :whacky:

LOL, check out the poll count of 50% for yes and maybe Roman Catholics are too senstive to 50% they Catholics are not too senstive. And guess what, this is a Catholic forum site.

http://www.mezco.net/store/inventory/Underdog/24010.jpg

Old Man Tradition against Underdog!

 

[AshleyBelle]

How about posting the link if what you are claiming?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=293684&page=4