Are saints "more present" where their statues are?

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I have Michael, Mary, John Paul II for example, sitting in my room, and I’m wondering whether they themselves are somehow present in a more special way because of the statues.

I’m trying to avoid superstition, but due to the fact that for example, saints are often watching over their relics (how else would the miracles occur if they weren’t watching?), I wonder if the statues honor them in a way that gets their attention.
 
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I know in the East there’s an entire theology around icons. They’re seen as “windows in heaven” and there is definitely a sense of a special “presence”. Is this true of statues and images in the Latin tradition? I would think so…otherwise why would we have a tradition of miraculous icons and statues? They can be vehicles for grace like any sacramental.
 
Saints are not more present where statues are. Statues and pictures are aids for us in prayer and veneration and help us to consider and focus on the saint in question.
 
How do you then explain miraculous icons? Your answer seems to disregard the theology of sacramentals.
 
DrawNearToGod said:
I have Michael, Mary, John Paul II for example, sitting in my room, and I’m wondering whether they themselves are somehow present in a more special way because of the statues.
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No, they are not present in a more special way because of the statues. The statues are to remind you yourself to think of them, not to remind them to stop by and think of you. All that is necessary to connect with a saint is to ask them for their help or talk to them. Statues, holy cards, etc are not necessary, they are just “nice to haves”. They remind you of the saint and they are something nice to look at.

If saints were present in a more special way because of their statues, that would be very unfair to people who could not have a statue, perhaps because they could not afford one, or lived in a place where having a saint statue would get you beaten up or arrested. Plus it would be spiritist thinking, the idea that you somehow call up a saint by having a statue of them.

Please note, my answer is directed specifically to saint statues in Western Catholicism.
I will leave it to Eastern Catholics to address the question of icons in Eastern Catholicism. I would note also that I have been told on here by EC’s that icons have to be created in a specific way, and it is not a case where just any old representation of a saint or Jesus could be an icon.
 
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twf said:
Is this true of statues and images in the Latin tradition?
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No, it is not.
There are some images of Our Lady that are considered miraculous or significant, but Our Lady is not “more present” where the image is. She’s with you, me, everybody who is devoted to her; we don’t have to go pray in front of Our Lady of Czestochowa to be close to her any more than we have to go pray in the grotto at Lourdes.
The images are significant because they are a tangible reminder of Mary’s love for us and her help for us. In some cases they also have a big historical, cultural or spiritual significance to a particular group. But she isn’t “more present” where the image is. If God willed tomorrow that those images be destroyed, Mary would still be with us.
 
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DrawNearToGod said:
I have Michael, Mary, John Paul II for example, sitting in my room, and I’m wondering whether they themselves are somehow present in a more special way because of the statues.

I’m trying to avoid superstition, but due to the fact that for example, saints are often watching over their relics (how else would the miracles occur if they weren’t watching?), I wonder if the statues honor them in a way that gets their attention.
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God is the same no matter where we are, but we are not.

It would be the same with the saints, who are in communion with God. They can be accessed at will anytime and anywhere.

Because we are human beings with corporal bodies and physical senses, statues or icons are a good way to put us into the right mindset and to focus on heavenly things. This is also why a sanctuary or a place in nature can be a good place to meditate or to go to. Adoration is particularly recommended because the Real Presence of Jesus is displayed, and so he is physically present in the room with you.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
All that is necessary to connect with a saint is to ask them for their help or talk to them.
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It’s not that I don’t believe this, but it just isn’t that real to me. My brain can’t picture how this works.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
There are some images of Our Lady that are considered miraculous or significant, but Our Lady is not “more present” where the image is.
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I agree with Our Lady being present with all of us, but I was always taught that those who wear the Miraculous Medal receive additional, special graces, unprompted.
 
Well, I presume you have some good human friends in your daily life, and you talk to them when you see them, or on a messaging app or your phone.

Saints are just your good heavenly friends, and you talk to them when you think of them, or maybe when you see their picture or statue, only you don’t need to use a messaging app, you can just tell them what’s on your mind or even just think it silently. Once you and the saint are in good communication, they might say Hello or answer you sometimes.
 
This is true, and happens with other sacramentals too, such as the Brown Scapular. But receiving extra graces is not the same as Our Lady being “more present”. She’s equally present, she just gives the person who devoutly wears a medal extra graces. Think of her as going around giving all her children cookies, and she gives the person with the medal two cookies instead of just one.
 
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But this could also be true of those who pray before a miraculous statue or icon, no? Special graces received that wouldn’t be received otherwise.
 
It could be, but again, the reception of special grace does not mean Mary is “more present”.

Also, Mary is very understanding of people who are devoted to her but for some reason, cannot wear or have a medal, or cannot pray in front of her canonically crowned image, etc. I have a Miraculous Medal on, but let’s say someone stole it and I couldn’t get another right away or couldn’t afford a replacement or lived in a country where Catholic things were hard to get, or maybe I’m in the hospital and not allowed to wear any medals or anything in there except my hospital gown. I am still just as devoted to Mary despite these circumstances. She will understand and still give me the graces though I have no medal now.
 
Hmmm. What a fascinating discussion.To get in before Tis, I am not believer and my views are not, therefore, generally Catholic. (Sorry about the redundancy but I’m saving the need to have it pointed out).

I am finding the ‘no’ answer from most to this question a little perplexing because Catholic doctrine certainly seems to suggest that Jesus is ‘more present’ in the Eucharist than anywhere else. OK so Iget that people will say that there is a difference between eucharistic presence and other presence say that Jesus is not 'more present in and about a statue of himself. But surely this establishes the possibility of ‘degrees of presence’?

And what about the veneration of relics and pilgrimages to places associated with saints? Surely Catholics believe that the Virgin Mary of ‘more present’ at Lourdes than elsewhere? If not,why go there?
 
@FiveLinden

The Eucharist is different because Jesus is physically present in the Eucharist, just as if a friend were physically standing in the same room as you.

God is omnipresent and is spiritually present at all places, and the saints are in communion with God. The saints are not spiritually omnipresent in of themselves, but since they are in communion with God they can be addressed at any moment at any time as though they were omnipresent.

People make pilgrimages for healing or for spiritual growth or for penance, or ideally, for all of the above.
 
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FiveLinden said:
Catholic doctrine certainly seems to suggest that Jesus is ‘more present’ in the Eucharist than anywhere else.
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The Eucharist IS Jesus’ flesh and blood. The Eucharist is transubstantiated at Mass. This is something that only happens to the Eucharist. It does not happen to statues or anything else and it certainly doesn’t happen with saints, only with Jesus who is God. The Eucharist is not really pertinent to this discussion.
OK so Iget that people will say that there is a difference between eucharistic presence and other presence say that Jesus is not 'more present in and about a statue of himself. But surely this establishes the possibility of ‘degrees of presence’?
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No, the Eucharist is the Eucharist. Everything else is everything else. The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is unique in being the physical flesh-and-blood presence of God.

Jesus is spiritually present to us at many other times, we just have to ask. For example, when we can’t receive actual Communion because we can’t get to Mass or there is no Mass happening, we can make a Spiritual Communion and ask Jesus to come spiritually into our heart/ soul and stay with us. No statues involved, we just sincerely ask - and of course it’s expected that our soul will be repentant before we go asking Jesus to join with us there.
And what about the veneration of relics and pilgrimages to places associated with saints? Surely Catholics believe that the Virgin Mary of ‘more present’ at Lourdes than elsewhere? If not,why go there?
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Some Catholics make the mistake of thinking that God, Mary or saints are more present at pilgrimage sites. That’s the wrong reason to go. The correct reason to go is because holy places serve as a tangible reminder that God/ Mary/ the saints love us, and also it is nice to actually see places one has read or heard about and think about what it was like for the visionary and the saint, and marvel at the signs Our Lady left behind such as the spring at Lourdes and the tilma at Guadalupe. Seeing these things can help some of us grow in faith, not because Mary or the saint is more present there but because it’s focusing our own thoughts on holy matters (same as how a statue focuses our thoughts on holy matters). Plus, if you are a devotee of St. Padre Pio or Our Lady of Guadalupe, it makes sense that you would want to see where St. Pio lived and where he was buried, or where Our Lady actually appeared, just like if you’re a fan of Elvis Presley you might want to see Graceland and the other places he lived and worked.

(continued next post due to char limits)
 
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(continued from previous post)

As the person above said, sometimes people also make such pilgrimages in hope of being healed of an illness or for doing penance. The traditional idea was that making a long and often difficult journey was penitential in nature. It may or may not be penitential today (see below comment about its being a nice vacation) and I would note that while miraculous healings sometimes take place at pilgrimage sites, a lot of them also take place right where the person praying for the miracle happens to be, like in the hospital in USA.

Also, to be honest, for devout people it’s a nice vacation to go to a pleasant holy place and have Masses and pray and see beautiful churches and scenery. If one is praying and going to Mass every day, then one likely prefers a vacation where there is a focus on Masses and prayer than a vacation where the focus is on getting drunk and shopping all day for a week.

But there are many people including priests, some saints, and other devout Catholics who don’t like the idea of pilgrimages and think they are a waste of time when there is probably a beautiful church to see with the same Mass/ same Jesus right in your home town, and you could just go there, and maybe give your vacation money to the poor.
 
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I could tell you a story about a statue of the blessed virgin Mary, blessed by a priest of course, but no one would believe me. Call 'em whatever you want, but a statue, blessed by a priest, does convey a spiritual presence.
 
Thank you for the detailed reply Tis. I can see that your understanding, which I take to be the official position of the Church, is not shared by many Catholics. Is their error in your view a simple misunderstanding of naive faith, or an objective case of a breach of the first commandment?
 
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