Are Secular Universities Really So Bad?

[MissRose73]

Some can be, some are not.

I attended a public community college then an university that specialized in various business and computer related degree programs. I still went to Mass and read the Bible, etc and I was not into the party scene on the weekends where there was certainly drinking, premarital sex etc going on. There were very few religious campus groups at the university as the community college was all commuter students with no dorms, not like the university that had some boarders in the dorms. The one Christian group at the university I did spend some time with had no issues with me being Catholic, and they were some type of Protestant.

The university did host a few Masses for the Catholic students with a diocesan priest invited to say Mass in a common area type place on campus. One time, the bishop came and said Mass which is something I won’t forget.

 

[Contarini]

The term “secular” has become synonymous, in conservative circles especially, with materialistic, greedy, atheist, and anti-religious. It has been applied to many things, including the university. Since I teach at a university (a Catholic one presently, but secular ones in the past), I would be interested in finding out what exactly people think is so wrong with secular universities. More precisely, what do people believe goes on in these institutions–perhaps based on personal experience–to influence students in such a negative way with respect to religion? And how would you suggest we change the situation? I’ve written a little about my own feelings on another thread, and as the title of this thread suggests, I don’t share the view that secular universities are so bad. Still, I’d like to hear the opinions of others who may disagree. I don’t mind hearing from those who agree with me either.

I’ve heard it claimed that evangelical students are more likely to lose their faith at an evangelical college than at a secular college. In the latter context they tend to band together and become more firmly committed to their identity. At an evangelical college, evangelical Christianity is the “establishment” against which they tend to rebel.

I don’t know if this is true of Catholics. I do know that the place where I became very interested in Catholicism and nearly converted was at Duke, in part because of my involvement with a Catholic student group.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

The term “secular” has become synonymous, in conservative circles especially, with materialistic, greedy, atheist, and anti-religious. It has been applied to many things, including the university. Since I teach at a university (a Catholic one presently, but secular ones in the past), I would be interested in finding out what exactly people think is so wrong with secular universities. More precisely, what do people believe goes on in these institutions–perhaps based on personal experience–to influence students in such a negative way with respect to religion? And how would you suggest we change the situation? I’ve written a little about my own feelings on another thread, and as the title of this thread suggests, I don’t share the view that secular universities are so bad. Still, I’d like to hear the opinions of others who may disagree. I don’t mind hearing from those who agree with me either.

I’ve heard it claimed that evangelical students are more likely to lose their faith at an evangelical college than at a secular college. In the latter context they tend to band together and become more firmly committed to their identity. At an evangelical college, evangelical Christianity is the “establishment” against which they tend to rebel.

I don’t know if this is true of Catholics. I do know that the place where I became very interested in Catholicism and nearly converted was at Duke, in part because of my involvement with a Catholic student group.

I would suggest, tentatively, that the conventional wisdom should be flipped on its head. A secular school helps students become more committed to their faith, but risks making them closed-minded because they just write off what their professors are saying as secular bilge. A religious school–if it has good faculty who challenge the students appropriately rather than just indoctrinating them–may risk causing students to lose their faith, but helps them develop a more critical faith.

Schools that simply indoctrinate–which I get the impression is what most folks here would see as “true Catholic colleges”–have little value.

Edwin

Edwin

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

There is a difference between a truly Catholic education and a non-Catholic education.

The main problem I see with secular education is that their vision of reality is opposite and often opposed to actual reality. Now, you may look at that statement and say, well, who are you or even the Catholic Church to say what “actual reality” is? And what difference does it make; why can’t we each have our own view of reality since there are so many?

And there we come to the crux of the problem, that universities, which are supposed to be places where truth is studied, are places where even the nature and importance of truth are denigrated.

It is a shame that the Founding Fathers could not have known that there would come a time in this nation (the US) when an atheistic system of thought would replace religion and because there is no apparent deity involved, the government would accept it and only it.

So we have schools in which only certain parts of human nature are seen, and therefore there is no true teaching when it comes to humanity, only a bundle of seriously skewed theories. We have a system in which Catholic thinking is kept out, not because it has been proven wrong but because its source is considered religious, which is verbotten.

That being said, I do not consider secular schools to be “that bad,” as you put it. First, as Bishop Sheen pointed out, better to send your child to a secular university and know what he is getting into than to send him to a [nominally] Catholic on and not be defended against what you will be getting.

Secondly, secular schools are excellent at providing technical educations, and there is room in them, because they are so large, for diversity.

 

[St_Francis]

I would suggest, tentatively, that the conventional wisdom should be flipped on its head. A secular school helps students become more committed to their faith, but risks making them closed-minded because they just write off what their professors are saying as secular bilge. A religious school–if it has good faculty who challenge the students appropriately rather than just indoctrinating them–may risk causing students to lose their faith, but helps them develop a more critical faith.

Schools that simply indoctrinate–which I get the impression is what most folks here would see as “true Catholic colleges”–have little value.

Edwin

Edwin

This is a tricky issue. One man’s indoctrination is another man’s truth, no?

What is indocrination? I got a Catholic history book for my homeschooled children, and was informed by certain ex-Catholic relatives that this constituted indoctrination. To me, a book written by someone who has a very strong desire for truth and who is presenting Information from a truthful (eg, Catholic) perspective is less indoctrination than the secular textbook which says that Apostles “claimed” to have seen the resurrected Christ.

The Catholic Church has always been interested in truth, reveale truth and natural truth. The Church has for all its existence has thrashed out ideas, considered differing opinions, and generally avoided a blind faith way of doing things in favor of rigorous intellectual thought.

I cannot imagine a truly Catholic university which would merely teach students to acccept without understanding. While no one can research the thinking behind everything, the processes should be available, and students should be introduced to some of it so they understand it exists and how to find and use it on their own.

A Catholic university is not like a Protestant Bible college.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I think I mentioned this to you before in an older thread, but I’ll never forget it. In a discussion about Catholic universities, I mentioned to you one in your city. My son spent about a year and a half there, but then transferred to a state U “So I won’t have to listen to anti-Catholicism in class anymore” in that supposedly Catholic university. And he didn’t either, after he transferred to Mo State.

Remainder of story. He graduated from Mo State, then went to Ave Maria for graduate school. Interestingly, his first employer, who is a very devoted member of the Assemblies of God, hired him because the employer felt he was likely to be an honest fellow and an earnest worker if he chose a school like A.M. And he was right about that.

So, secular universities can have some advantages over nominally Catholic schools that are anything but, but it isn’t necessarily true of all Catholic universities.

I don’t remember you telling me that, but thanks for posting.

You are so correct about the University here. For Easter, they put up a Crucifix with a gay flag on it. It’s very disheartening.

Thanks for the update on MO U. My daughter is now starting her third year at MO University in Springfield. First public school she ever attended. She is taking a class in Biblical Theology that is so much more historical than what she learned in high school. She is on the dean’s list and defending her faith to her roommates!

Fulton Sheen said, “It’s better to defend your faith in a public school, than to lose it in a Catholic school.” Sadly, that’s what’s happening at the more liberal Catholic institutions.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Schools that simply indoctrinate–which I get the impression is what most folks here would see as “true Catholic colleges”–have little value.

Edwin

Edwin

The Judeo-Christian culture is so rich in poetry, history, philosophy, art, theology, and literature, there is no reason for “indoctrination” to teach the Truth.

 

[Captain_America]

The term “secular” has become synonymous, in conservative circles especially, with materialistic, greedy, atheist, and anti-religious. It has been applied to many things, including the university. Since I teach at a university (a Catholic one presently, but secular ones in the past), I would be interested in finding out what exactly people think is so wrong with secular universities. More precisely, what do people believe goes on in these institutions–perhaps based on personal experience–to influence students in such a negative way with respect to religion? And how would you suggest we change the situation? I’ve written a little about my own feelings on another thread, and as the title of this thread suggests, I don’t share the view that secular universities are so bad. Still, I’d like to hear the opinions of others who may disagree. I don’t mind hearing from those who agree with me either.

The general concern is that faculty are outright irreligious or, at minimum, dismissive of religious belief and human spirituality.

I think it’s very fair to assert that college faculty frequently view religion as being “unscientific”, although few really study religious belief—or scientific belief, for that matter—very much.

For my dime, it’s pretty evident that humans have some kind of spiritual sensations worth study.

Also, as you might guess, young people in their teens (a) begin seeing that the “Bible stories” told them in their youth don’t make apparent sense (e.g., Jonah), and (b) they also see ostensibly religious persons acting in hypocritical fashion—which strongly keys into the whole keen nose that teens have for hypocritical behavior (“Holden Caulfield-ism”).

 

[Captain_America]

I would also add that, in my experience, junior faculty in certain areas seem to have gotten into teaching in order to politically proselytize their students.

To me, the best kind of teacher tries to teach the subject, not make little political converts to his views.

 

[estesbob]

The term “secular” has become synonymous, in conservative circles especially, with materialistic, greedy, atheist, and anti-religious. It has been applied to many things, including the university. Since I teach at a university (a Catholic one presently, but secular ones in the past), I would be interested in finding out what exactly people think is so wrong with secular universities. More precisely, what do people believe goes on in these institutions–perhaps based on personal experience–to influence students in such a negative way with respect to religion? And how would you suggest we change the situation? I’ve written a little about my own feelings on another thread, and as the title of this thread suggests, I don’t share the view that secular universities are so bad. Still, I’d like to hear the opinions of others who may disagree. I don’t mind hearing from those who agree with me either.

I don’t see anything wrong with a secular University. Both of my daughters went to secular universities and both received excellent educations.

. My youngest daughter had pretty much dropped away from the church by the time she went to college, declining to be confirmed and pretty much just going through the motions. She discovered God and renewed her Catholic faith at a secular University.

 

[meltzerboy]

I would also add that, in my experience, junior faculty in certain areas seem to have gotten into teaching in order to politically proselytize their students.

To me, the best kind of teacher tries to teach the subject, not make little political converts to his views.

I’m curious regarding what personal experience has led you to think that about junior faculty.

 

[meltzerboy]

I don’t see anything wrong with a secular University. Both of my daughters went to secular universities and both received excellent educations.

. My youngest daughter had pretty much dropped away from the church by the time she went to college, declining to be confirmed and pretty much just going through the motions. She discovered God and renewed her Catholic faith at a secular University.

That’s good to hear about your younger daughter, estesbob!

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t see anything wrong with a secular University. Both of my daughters went to secular universities and both received excellent educations.

. My youngest daughter had pretty much dropped away from the church by the time she went to college, declining to be confirmed and pretty much just going through the motions. She discovered God and renewed her Catholic faith at a secular University.

Who can afford Catholic Universities anyway? In St. Louis and Chicago, they are more than Yale and Harvard.

 

[StevenFrancis]

Bad?

Only if they purport to be “Catholic” universities, but are not. Otherwise, I guess there are good ones and bad ones. Just like with anything else.

Peace,

Steven

 

[valentino]

I agree.the term secular instition actually means teaching science without God having a direct influence.Of course it also means no religious prayers and such.I don’t anything wrong with secular universities.Why does God have to be in biology,mathematics,ect.?The only thing that does bother me is why there are so many and the no.keeps growing?Its like say we have an atheist college or Jewish college.Since Im Catholic(christian) to me it shows that less and less people are staying christians.I think our society (an world) are trying to hard to find and alternitive to Christ or prove that Christ wasn’t God.I have nothing wrong with this except its wasting so much time.Like evolution.They will never be ever to prove that man came from the dust of the stars after the Big Bang.Its interesting but there are far more questions to be asked than the questions they’ve answered.The questions can go on indefinitely.Its like the scientists tell us when we solve a question concerning something we find we always have ten times more to learn.So in reality it can’t possibly be solved.

 

[St_Francis]

Valentino and others who see little or no difference between secular and Catholoc universities except for prayers…

This just shows how very un-Catholic most of the supposedly Catholic schools are! Imagine what a truly, thoroughly Catholic college would look! Cricifixes in every room, and a prayer at the beginning of every class. Bells ringing the Angelus (or an equivalent), class schedules revolving around Mass times…

In science and math classes, language which would reflect the fact that God created everything. No more, The species evolved… but God designed… It may not come up often, I’m not saying that God has to be mentioned at all times, but that we shoild give honor where honor is due rather than ignoring His “contribution.”

In other classes, instruction would be based on the Catholic understanding of human nature. No more Marxist literary analysis or radical feminist political analysis.

In philosophy, the thought of St Thomas Aquinas would be required as opposed to being set aside to be brought out only when he bolsters some left-wing argument. Dissenters would be labeled as such and their errors explained.

Some would see this as oppressive and propagandistic. But what could be more freeing than an education in the truth? Is education based on the lie of man’s supremacy somehow liberating? Is an education based on truth propagandistic or is an education based on man-made lies propagandistic?

In terms of getting along in today’s world, a secular education can be manuevered through. A faux-Catholic education can be more actively inimical to one’s faith than a secular university. But in comparison with what a truely Catholic education would be, secular education is like a sputtering candle next to the sun.

 

[Rohanfan]

I guess it depends on the part of the country you are in, if that particular Secular University is bad. My daughter goes to a regular public high school and she says that their are some teachers that are really bad and some are not. The one thing that she did say is, that Gay and Lesbians are out and about and upfront with their sexuality, and this is HIGH SCHOOL!!! She is thinking about going to LSU or TULANE(If a good enough scholarship comes about) for college. She wants to be a Doctor.

Peace

Paul

 

[nordskoven]

Father Martin Luther attended the first university not chartered by the Vatican, though run by the Augustinians.