Are Sexual Minorities Children of God?

[NofJ]

While the Church teaches that homosexual acts are immoral, she does distinguish between engaging in homosexual acts and having a homosexual inclination. While the former is always objectively sinful, the latter is not. To the extent that a homosexual tendency or inclination is not subject to one’s free will, one is not morally culpable for that tendency. Although one would be morally culpable if one were voluntarily to entertain homosexual temptations or to choose to act on them, simply having the tendency is not a sin. Consequently,the Church does not teach that the experience of homosexual attraction is in itself sinful.

The homosexual inclination is objectively disordered, i.e., it is an inclination that predisposes one toward what is truly not good for the human person. Of course, heterosexual persons not uncommonly have disordered sexual inclinations as well. It is not enough for a sexual inclination to be heterosexual for it to be properly ordered. For example, any tendency toward sexual pleasure that is not subordinated to the greater goods of love and marriage is disordered, in that it inclines a person towards a use of sexuality that does not accord with the divine plan for creation. There is the intrinsic disorder of what is directed toward that which is evil in all cases(contra naturam). There is also the accidental disorder of what is not properly
ordered by right reason, what fails to attain the proper measure of virtue (contra rationem).

It is crucially important to understand that saying a person has a particular inclination that is disordered is not to say that the person as a whole is disordered. Nor does it mean that one has been rejected by God or the Church. Sometimes the Church is misinterpreted or misrepresented as teaching that persons with homosexual inclinations are objectively disordered, as if everything about them were disordered or rendered morally defective by this inclination. Rather, the disorder is in that particular inclination, which is not ordered toward the fulfillment of the natural ends of human sexuality. Because of this, acting in accord with such an inclination simply cannot contribute to the true good of the human person. Nevertheless, while the particular inclination to homosexual acts is disordered, the person retains his or her intrinsic human dignity and value.

Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination: Guidelines for Pastoral Care
USCCB Document, November 14, 2006

What do folks have to say? I have been lurking and seeing much discussion on Homosexuality. The teaching of the Church seems clear to me. Why is there so much confusion on this issue?

Homosexual/Lesbian/Gay Person = Not Disordered
Homosexual/Lesbian/Gay Acts = Disordered

 

[mcrow]

There is not much confussion.

Homosexuals are sinners because they have gay relations.

A person with Same Sex Attraction is a person attracted to the same sex but do not have gay relations.

You see, you have to have gay sex before you qualify to be a homosexual.

The fact is that there are very few people who are truely just have SSA and do not act on it. There are very few people with SSA that are active Catholics since most people with SSA really cannot stand someone pointing out that their sex life is wrong.

Are they children of God? Certainly and they should be loved as such.

 

[NofJ]

There is not much confussion.

Homosexuals are sinners because they have gay relations.

A person with Same Sex Attraction is a person attracted to the same sex but do not have gay relations.

You see, you have to have gay sex before you qualify to be a homosexual.

The fact is that there are very few people who are truely just have SSA and do not act on it. There are very few people with SSA that are active Catholics since most people with SSA really cannot stand someone pointing out that their sex life is wrong.

Are they children of God? Certainly and they should be loved as such.

Ok. I’ll take the bait.
Why does one have to have gay sex before you qualify as a homosexual?
Do heterosexual teen-agers need to have Heterosexual sex to qualify as heterosexual? How do you know that “The fact is” there are very few people who have same sex attraction and don’t act on it?
If the above is true, then why would we think that someone with OSA wouldn’t need to act on it?
How do you know that there are few active Catholics that have same sex attraction?
Might it seem that there few because people with OSA are so virulent in their dislike and disapproval of them as people, so they would rather be quiet and invisible?

 

[BiscuitCrusader]

I couldn’t care less over whether you’re homosexual, bisexual, asexual, or whatever else you identify yourself as- You are my brother or sister on this planet, and by the name of the holy Spirit I would die that you may be forgiven, should God ever ask it of me- and I would do so willingly. Jesus didn’t die for just me, or just Catholics or just Christians- he died for EVERY single human in the world. And it woul dbe an honour to do the same. Whilst I appreciate that homosexual acts are a sin, so are many things- murder, rape, theft, violence, swearing, lying, malevolent actions, blasphemy… The list goes on. I’m not perfect and so I don’t judge others because of their sin, I only help them overcome it, and if someone’s gay, then I’ll go ahead and pray with them because I know God still loves me although I sin, so I should love my homosexual brothers and sisters as much as my heterosexual ones. As our Lord Jesus Christ said, “Let the one amongst you who is sinless be the first to throw the stone.”

 

[Garyjohn2]

Yeah, I think its just an issue of semantics. You can have homosexual tendencies (prefer the company of the same sex) but not act on that preference and be sinless.

Whether you call such a person a homosexual or a “same sex attracted person” is just an issue of language, and how people define things in their own head.

Yes, they are children of God.

 

[supertubos]

Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination: Guidelines for Pastoral Care
USCCB Document, November 14, 2006

What do folks have to say? I have been lurking and seeing much discussion on Homosexuality. The teaching of the Church seems clear to me. Why is there so much confusion on this issue?

Homosexual/Lesbian/Gay Person = Not Disordered
Homosexual/Lesbian/Gay Acts = Disordered

Whatever. I desagree. I dont feel there is much difference on having the homosexual tendency and acting on it.

For me, no matter all the fuss when someone speaks like I am doing, homosexuality is a disease, and this disease is brought by education not by genes. At least, up to now, I have seen no proof that there are homosexual genes. So, if it is not genetic, it comes from education. Or, as Im not an english speaker, a marformation, whatever word fits better, an error in education, “bad education”. By the way, I have been a teacher for 35 years and I know what a simple error in education can bring on subsequent consequences: families who wanted a girl and educate the boy dressing like girls, etc.fatherless families (25% in America), mothers who sleep with the boys up to unbelievable late times and so on.

So, if you are homosexual, you act because you think and then you think because you act. An act of homosexuality I dont think it is a willful act. It is a compulsion homosexual cannot avoid. Moreover, the ones who go on parades, you see by their behavior that there is a problem there, you dont go parading your heterosexuality, dressing outlandishly lurid.

Yes, they are suffering Children of God. I dont think they are Happy. And they deserve God’s Blessings…

The comparison with heterosexual comes bad for heterosexuality is not an error of education!

 

[Scoobyshme]

Ok. I’ll take the bait.
Why does one have to have gay sex before you qualify as a homosexual?
Do heterosexual teen-agers need to have Heterosexual sex to qualify as heterosexual? How do you know that “The fact is” there are very few people who have same sex attraction and don’t act on it?
If the above is true, then why would we think that someone with OSA wouldn’t need to act on it?
How do you know that there are few active Catholics that have same sex attraction?
Might it seem that there few because people with OSA are so virulent in their dislike and disapproval of them as people, so they would rather be quiet and invisible?

Well, if one has a strong inclination to rob banks, is he a bank robber if he doesn’t rob banks? If someone has a strong inclination to murder, is he a murderer if he never murders?

There is a lie lurking below the surface of the “gay movement,” if you will, that no one seems to get. The lie is that homosexuals are trying to create their sin as an “identity” much the same as male or female. It is not an identity of a human being, however, It is a grave disorder.

Satan, the father of lies, is always willing to hide an ounce of lie under a pound of truth any day. The same as if someone gave you a glass of the finest wine with a spoonful of sewerage in it. Would you drink it? No way! Why? Because it’s a glass of sewerage.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Any human being is a child of God - even the homosexuals that are having sex with those that are of the same gender. The difference is that this group is a group of sinners. Their sin may be more objective than certain other sins that the rest of us may be comitting but we should remember that we all struggle with one sin or another and that we should all remember to communicate with our brothers and sisters in a loving and compassionate way while telling the ovjective truth.

 

[NofJ]

How do we best reach and evangelize:

1. Young people who might believe they have this identity and
2. Older people who might be entrenched in this identity?

How do we:

1. Convince a young person who might have these feelings/inclination that they are loved, valued and respected as a person and it would be valuable to them to maintain their virginity and not act on these feelings/inclinations?
2. Convince an older person, who might be entrenched in this identity, that they are loved, valued and respected as a person and that it would be valuable for them to refrain from sexual activity, repent, and have a relationship with Jesus and his Church?

How can we do this in a loving, gentle, respectful and compassionate way, without either diluting the truth, or sounding like hateful, angry, crazy religious fanatics?

How can we reach out to persons who feel they have been wounded by the Church and enter into conversation, and show them Jesus, without furthering their feelings of woundedness while yet still being faithful to the truth?

Are these people beyond hope? Is there no way Jesus could open their hearts and bring them into his fold?

Might it be possible that we hold these people to a higher standard of repentance and perfection than we do others, because of the strong aversion we might have to the idea of this particular sin?

 

[Newbie2]

There is not much confussion.

Homosexuals are sinners because they have gay relations.

A person with Same Sex Attraction is a person attracted to the same sex but do not have gay relations.

You see, you have to have gay sex before you qualify to be a homosexual.

Depends on how one defines a homosexual person, doesn’t it?

Are they children of God? Certainly and they should be loved as such.

Yep. So are pedophiles, murderers, etc, etc.

An act of homosexuality I dont think it is a willful act. It is a compulsion homosexual cannot avoid.

Interesting statement. How would you compare this to someone who is, for example, inclined to masturbate?

Yes, they are suffering Children of God. I dont think they are Happy. And they deserve God’s Blessings…

The comparison with heterosexual comes bad for heterosexuality is not an error of education!

 

[Scoobyshme]

How do we best reach and evangelize:

1. Young people who might believe they have this identity and
   First, we must convince them that homosexual temptations is not an “identity.” It is a temptation to sin. If they believe it is their “identity” then it’s easier for them to rationalize the sin, which is against God’s will.
2. Older people who might be entrenched in this identity?
   Same thing. Homosexuality is not an “identity.” Homosexual activity is objectively a mortal sin. Any denial of this does not lead one towards God, but away from Him.

How do we:

1. Convince a young person who might have these feelings/inclination that they are loved, valued and respected as a person and it would be valuable to them to maintain their virginity and not act on these feelings/inclinations?
2. Convince an older person, who might be entrenched in this identity, that they are loved, valued and respected as a person and that it would be valuable for them to refrain from sexual activity, repent, and have a relationship with Jesus and his Church?

How can we do this in a loving, gentle, respectful and compassionate way, without either diluting the truth, or sounding like hateful, angry, crazy religious fanatics?

By speaking the truth on this matter calmly, and by praying ahead of time for those to whom we will talk.

How can we reach out to persons who feel they have been wounded by the Church and enter into conversation, and show them Jesus, without furthering their feelings of woundedness while yet still being faithful to the truth?

By explaining to them that the Church is not “wounding” them by telling them Christ’s truths, but is trying to lead them to true freedom in Christ, Who is the Truth.

Are these people beyond hope? Is there no way Jesus could open their hearts and bring them into his fold?

If they continue to listen to the world, rather than Christ’s Body, the Church, then they will be lost. If they, through God’s grace, listen to the Church, then they can indeed have hope!

Might it be possible that we hold these people to a higher standard of repentance and perfection than we do others, because of the strong aversion we might have to the idea of this particular sin?

The difference, from what I’ve seen, is that most sinners don’t try to institutionalize their sin, or unionize it in some way, or try to convince everyone else that they have a “right” to commit this sin. They don’t lobby Congress to pass special laws to allow them to scandalize the nation by claiming their sin is “normal.” So, I’m not sure it’s fair to compare the two.

 

[NofJ]

I sincerely doubt people on either side of the issue are able to converse and dialogue rationally and calmly.

I find it interesting that this one particular issue brings up such strong emotions for all parties.

I am thinking it good to follow James, Chapter 3, which I will quote below: RSV

Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.

For we all make many mistakes, and if any one makes no mistakes in what he says he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also.
If we put bits into the mouths of horses that they may obey us, we guide their whole bodies.
Look at the ships also; though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs.
So the tongue is a little member and boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by a small fire!

And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is an unrighteous world among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the cycle of nature, and set on fire by hell.

For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by humankind, but no human being can tame the tongue – a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who are made in the likeness of God.
From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brethren, this ought not to be so.
Does a spring pour forth from the same opening fresh water and brackish?
Can a fig tree, my brethren, yield olives, or a grapevine figs? No more can salt water yield fresh.

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good life let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.

But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth.
This wisdom is not such as comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, devilish.
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice.
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, without uncertainty or insincerity.
And the harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

 

[SamanthaT]

I couldn’t care less over whether you’re homosexual, bisexual, asexual, or whatever else you identify yourself as- You are my brother or sister on this planet, and by the name of the holy Spirit I would die that you may be forgiven, should God ever ask it of me- and I would do so willingly. Jesus didn’t die for just me, or just Catholics or just Christians- he died for EVERY single human in the world. And it woul dbe an honour to do the same. Whilst I appreciate that homosexual acts are a sin, so are many things- murder, rape, theft, violence, swearing, lying, malevolent actions, blasphemy… The list goes on. I’m not perfect and so I don’t judge others because of their sin, I only help them overcome it, and if someone’s gay, then I’ll go ahead and pray with them because I know God still loves me although I sin, so I should love my homosexual brothers and sisters as much as my heterosexual ones. As our Lord Jesus Christ said, “Let the one amongst you who is sinless be the first to throw the stone.”

I couldnt have said it better then that!

 

[Debora123]

I couldn’t care less over whether you’re homosexual, bisexual, asexual, or whatever else you identify yourself as- You are my brother or sister on this planet, and by the name of the holy Spirit I would die that you may be forgiven, should God ever ask it of me- and I would do so willingly. Jesus didn’t die for just me, or just Catholics or just Christians- he died for EVERY single human in the world. And it woul dbe an honour to do the same. Whilst I appreciate that homosexual acts are a sin, so are many things- murder, rape, theft, violence, swearing, lying, malevolent actions, blasphemy… The list goes on. I’m not perfect and so I don’t judge others because of their sin, I only help them overcome it, and if someone’s gay, then I’ll go ahead and pray with them because I know God still loves me although I sin, so I should love my homosexual brothers and sisters as much as my heterosexual ones. As our Lord Jesus Christ said, “Let the one amongst you who is sinless be the first to throw the stone.”

This is great!

 

[GloriousOrder]

The holy approach to this subject reminds me of St. Anthony of Padua when confronting heretics. Were he to come into a town that had heretical preachers, he would not relentlessly attack them with vitriol; rather, he would set up in a quiet park or square, and preach the proper doctrine. Our saint never even mentioned the heretics or the heretical doctrines, only the Christ, His Church, and His revealed truth. After a time, he found that the heretics just lost their audience because everyone would come to him, in his meekness and humility of heart.

This is how we must approach homosexual gainsayers. Don’t ask whether they’re children of God, because we know that all creation is the brainchild and true substance of God. There is no way around it, unless you are speaking in the strictly moral-spiritual sense. Even then, we all proceed from the womb of God’s perfection conception, before time and space, in His Word which expressed us all. None of us can give a reason for being contumelious, even with the gay movement.

 

[speakttruth]

I couldn’t care less over whether you’re homosexual, bisexual, asexual, or whatever else you identify yourself as- You are my brother or sister on this planet, and by the name of the holy Spirit I would die that you may be forgiven, should God ever ask it of me- and I would do so willingly. Jesus didn’t die for just me, or just Catholics or just Christians- he died for EVERY single human in the world. And it would dbe an honor to do the same. Whilst I appreciate that homosexual acts are a sin, so are many things- murder, rape, theft, violence, swearing, lying, malevolent actions, blasphemy… The list goes on. I’m not perfect and so I don’t judge others because of their sin, I only help them overcome it, and if someone’s gay, then I’ll go ahead and pray with them because I know God still loves me although I sin, so I should love my homosexual brothers and sisters as much as my heterosexual ones. As our Lord Jesus Christ said, “Let the one amongst you who is sinless be the first to throw the stone.”

Your right we are all children of God and all should be loved. But we don’t associate with sinners that are not living the life of holiness. You should care who you are around. Meaning hanging around and socializing. Because you could be affirming them in that life that you love them, but it’s OK don’t worry about what you are doing I still love you. We are obligated to bring the good news and preach the truth. So you may love that person who is living an immoral life, but you are obligated to tell them the sin, if you are living a holy life yourself. Following the ten commandments, Sacraments and the church teachings and being in sanctifying grace, which you are if you are obedient to the church. Jesus said take the log out of your eye before you take the spec out of anyone else. Then you can take the spec out. If you are not living a holy and virtuous life then you need to get your act together before you can tell someone that they are living a sinful life. He didn’t say we couldn’t say anything, just don’t be sinning yourself, (mortal sin) if your telling anyone else not to sin. You can’t have an immoral life yourself and then say they shouldn’t. That’s being a hypocrite. The word judgment in the bible meant condemning. We are able to judge right from wrong. We cannot however say to them, you are going to hell. You can say that according the Bible, if you continue in that life than you will risk going to hell. Jesus is the only one who has the right to their condemnation, not us. But we are to speak the truth out of love, not hate. So we must love everyone, but that doesn’t mean we have fun and forget the rules and that is what you should be caring about. I hope you understand my point.

God bless.

 

[Debora123]

Your right we are all children of God and all should be loved. But we don’t associate with sinners that are not living the life of holiness. You should care who you are around.

Last I checked we were all sinners, and none of us are living a life of perfect holiness.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Deborah

**Last I checked we were all sinners, and none of us are living a life of perfect holiness. **

Absolutely true. And this is why it is important to avoid occasions of sin. A homosexual who wants to be chaste should not go to a gay bar. That kind of association can be fatal. But if one has a homosexual friend whom one can trust not to be a near occasion of sin, such an association can be loving and fruitful to a degree.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Deborah

By the way, it does not matter so much whether one calls oneself a homosexual or a heterosexual. You know that for both orientations sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin. In one case it is called fornication (or adultery). In the other case it is called sodomy. There is no getting around it. Same sex people cannot marry in the Catholic Church, yet so long as they remain chaste, there is no problem with such a relationship from the Church’s point of view, even though the parties are still considered to be sexually disordered.

I have often suspected that there are many homosexuals among the Catholic clergy who remain chaste but have loving relationships with fellow homosexual priests.

Then again, there may be many who are sodomites.

They live lives comparable to the general population … striving to be better but falling from time to time. Who would know this better than such priests after they have listened to several hours of confessions?

 

[joanofarc2008]

Last I checked we were all sinners, and none of us are living a life of perfect holiness.

I also agree with this statement. I have friends who are homosexual. They do know what my stance is though. They do not question my stance as I have made it clear that I do not agree but I love them as people. Life is too short to hate your neighbor. If there is behavior that starts that makes me uncomfortable I will remove myself. It is like being near a friend who is an active alcoholic. You see them when they are sober - not when they are drinking.