Are some Catholics sometimes vain?

[Pinkyyy]

I just wanted some opinions - from Catholics and from others here. I mean some things that I seem to hear A LOT of on this board (not so much on other boards on this site though) are the following:

• RCC is the only one correct church
• Everyone else is going to Hell - no matter if you profess Jesus as your Savior and believe in the Trininity (and are Baptized).
• the thought that Protestants have no right to basically worship Jesus - the whole argument of why do you copy us and what gives you the right to worship differently than “us” kind of thing.
• I have seen in a post below that it is thought people should convert because the Pope has a large following and because he “does good things” essentially (well nobody does good outside the CC?)
• Unwillingness by some to even acknowledge that the church has done mistakes as well.
• are so happy when people join their religion and are very loving, but throw threats against those who are not a part of their church (or especially those who leave the church - you are damned and are going to Hell type of stuff).

All of these things lead me to think are some Catholics a little vain? Isn’t that too a sin? Shouldn’t they (along with all other Christians - this is not just a slam against Catholics) try to find at least a friendly middle ground without attacking eachother making us look petty and like we can not even come to agreements when regarding our Main religion - Christianity?

Now I am not talking all Catholics - many Catholics get along great with other religions, have friends in Protestant religions, and can get a long very well. They pray for eachother and hope they find the right path to God. They do not pressure eachother and tell eachother how wrong the other one is. I never had anyone tell me at RCIA I was going to Hell unless I converted. On the contrary they acknowledged that while we are differen’t “religions” we worship God and our goals are to become closer to God in the best way we know and that GOD LOVES ALL.

I have not even gotten such cold responses from any of the priests or monks I have met (any of them) telling me that all non-Catholics will go to Hell and trying to tell me how wrong I am. Why do some take it to extremes?

When some Catholics say you are going to Hell if you don’t walk,talk and act like us, do they really think they are influencing the person to consider the CC? If I came up to you and demanded you do this and that and told you everything you knew was wrong and you were damned, you probably would come on here saying how some protestant harassed you

So I guess my two questions are

1- protestants how do you view those Catholics who say things like you are going to Hell

and

2 - What do Catholics think? Especially the ones who do not believe their “Christian brothers” are all hell bound

 

[Della]

I just wanted some opinions - from Catholics and from others here. I mean some things that I seem to hear A LOT of on this board (not so much on other boards on this site though) are the following:

• RCC is the only one correct church

No, we don’t teach this. We teach, and quite rightly too, that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and that all other Christian bodies were founded by someone else. That is simply historical fact.

• Everyone else is going to Hell - no matter if you profess Jesus as your Savior and believe in the Trininity (and are Baptized).

I know of no Catholics who believe that, and it certainly isn’t what the Church teaches.

• the thought that Protestants have no right to basically worship Jesus - the whole argument of why do you copy us and what gives you the right to worship differently than “us” kind of thing.

Again, I don’t know where you got this. I’ve never read any such comments here.

• I have seen in a post below that it is thought people should convert because the Pope has a large following and because he “does good things” essentially (well nobody does good outside the CC?)

Is that what s/he really wrote or what you are reading between the lines–that “nobody does good outside the CC?”

• Unwillingness by some to even acknowledge that the church has done mistakes as well.

What we Catholics will not concede is that the Church has only a human nature and not a divine one, as well. In it’s humanness, various members of the Church have made some very big mistakes, but the teachings of the Church, being divine, cannot be in error. That is what we say.

• are so happy when people join their religion and are very loving, but throw threats against those who are not a part of their church (or especially those who leave the church - you are damned and are going to Hell type of stuff).

Anyone who says that is wrong on two counts: one in lacking in charity and two in misrepresenting Church teaching.

All of these things lead me to think are some Catholics a little vain? Isn’t that too a sin? Shouldn’t they (along with all other Christians - this is not just a slam against Catholics) try to find at least a friendly middle ground without attacking eachother making us look petty and like we can not even come to agreements when regarding our Main religion - Christianity?

Pretending there are not any important differences between Protestant beliefs and Catholic ones is not charity but adhering to relativity in beliefs. Christ didn’t come to bring the the message “can’t we all just get along”.

Now I am not talking all Catholics - many Catholics get along great with other religions, have friends in Protestant religions, and can get a long very well. They pray for eachother and hope they find the right path to God. They do not pressure eachother and tell eachother how wrong the other one is. I never had anyone tell me at RCIA I was going to Hell unless I converted. On the contrary they acknowledged that while we are differen’t “religions” we worship God and our goals are to become closer to God in the best way we know and that GOD LOVES ALL.

I have not even gotten such cold responses from any of the priests or monks I have met (any of them) telling me that all non-Catholics will go to Hell and trying to tell me how wrong I am. Why do some take it to extremes?

When some Catholics say you are going to Hell if you don’t walk,talk and act like us, do they really think they are influencing the person to consider the CC? If I came up to you and demanded you do this and that and told you everything you knew was wrong and you were damned, you probably would come on here saying how some protestant harassed you

So I guess my two questions are

1- protestants how do you view those Catholics who say things like you are going to Hell

and

2 - What do Catholics think? Especially the ones who do not believe their “Christian brothers” are all hell bound

Anyone who claims they know the eternal fate of another is presuming to know the mind of God. And to condemn another is a grave sin. Catholics can fall into such sin just like anyone else.

 

[inJESUS]

I just wanted some opinions - from Catholics and from others here. I mean some things that I seem to hear A LOT of on this board (not so much on other boards on this site though) are the following:

• RCC is the only one correct church

 

[rinnie]

I think it just so hard to be a Catholic sometimes. Speaking for myself if we tell what we believe we are passing judgement. If we dont we are not sticking up for the Church. I just think we all need to find a way to get along. BUt is that possible in Religion, yes i guess only if we dont discuss it. How can you agree to disagree. I think thats impossible. I do think once People are Catholic and really do know their Religion it is pretty much impossible to sway them though. Its like saying that a tree is a car sometimes. You dont want to argue or disagree but what do you do? Sometimes its just plain funny though. But I guess we can all learn things from eachother. Maybe just walk away with the good. THats the best we can ask for. But I guess some people can just push some peoples buttons. We are all guilty of it once in awhile.

 

[ibkc]

“Vain” isn’t the right word, but I understand what you’re trying to say. Yes, some Catholics are that way. So are some Protestants, some Mormons, some Muslims, some Hindus, some pagans, blah blah blah and so on and so forth. It’s not a religion thing; it’s a human nature thing.

 

[rinnie]

I guess too we all no matter what religion we are think that ours is the only way. And its pretty much impossible to change anyone. But dont you think too sometimes if we were talking the tone of our voice would help so much more. Sometimes people take things wrong, not by what was said as much as what they think was said!

 

[Pinkyyy]

No, we don’t teach this. We teach, and quite rightly too, that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and that all other Christian bodies were founded by someone else. That is simply historical fact.

I know of no Catholics who believe that, and it certainly isn’t what the Church teaches.

Again, I don’t know where you got this. I’ve never read any such comments here.

Is that what s/he really wrote or what you are reading between the lines–that “nobody does good outside the CC?”

What we Catholics will not concede is that the Church has only a human nature and not a divine one, as well. In it’s humanness, various members of the Church have made some very big mistakes, but the teachings of the Church, being divine, cannot be in error. That is what we say.

Anyone who says that is wrong on two counts: one in lacking in charity and two in misrepresenting Church teaching.

Pretending there are not any important differences between Protestant beliefs and Catholic ones is not charity but adhering to relativity in beliefs. Christ didn’t come to bring the the message “can’t we all just get along”.

Anyone who claims they know the eternal fate of another is presuming to know the mind of God. And to condemn another is a grave sin. Catholics can fall into such sin just like anyone else.

Della, thank you for writing - like I said I am just trying to get people’s opinions, so let me tell you a little but more of why I gave those examples

Yes the Catholic church was founded by Jesus, and technically not Protestant religions b/c Jesus was not physically on Earth to do so, but Protestants did not just come out of the blue about a new idea, they came from Catholics, so therefore I have some reason to believe that they too were founded of Jesus - although not physically by him.

There was a post here recently about non-catholic salvation, and there were some posters who were posting quotes from popes and the cc saying how everyone but catholic chuch members can not received salvation - that is why I put this there (that is why I made sure to put “some” CC members, not all in my post as I know many do not share this view)

There was that post about how can someone kind of “copy” from the CC religion to make their religion -that’s what i was referring too.

That post was saying basically why would anyone watch the Pope and chose to still not be Catholic, that’s what i was referring too

I agree with you on the last 2 points. Thank you for writing!

 

[Della]

Della, thank you for writing - like I said I am just trying to get people’s opinions, so let me tell you a little but more of why I gave those examples

You’re welcome and thank you.

Yes the Catholic church was founded by Jesus, and technically not Protestant religions b/c Jesus was not physically on Earth to do so, but Protestants did not just come out of the blue about a new idea, they came from Catholics, so therefore I have some reason to believe that they too were founded of Jesus - although not physically by him.

I see how it could be seen that way, but it’s not accurate. The reformers split from the Church and started their own versions. And while they kept much of the teachings of the CC, they rejected parts of it, although they had no authority from God to do so. Jesus founded one Church not many churches. It saddens him that people decided to go it on their own instead of staying to help the Church where it needed them and submit to the Church where they should have.

There was a post here recently about non-catholic salvation, and there were some posters who were posting quotes from popes and the cc saying how everyone but catholic chuch members can not received salvation - that is why I put this there (that is why I made sure to put “some” CC members, not all in my post as I know many do not share this view)

They, such Catholics, have no right to be interpreting the documents of the Church on their own any more than they have the right to interpret the Bible on their own. What the Church teaches, and has always taught is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Magisterium (the bishops of the Church in union with the pope) decide what is Catholic teaching not uber-traditionalist “Catholics.” And that’s my rant for the day.

There was that post about how can someone kind of “copy” from the CC religion to make their religion -that’s what i was referring too.

I didn’t read that thread, so my comment on it could only be a guess as to what they meant by that.

That post was saying basically why would anyone watch the Pope and chose to still not be Catholic, that’s what i was referring too

That’s the voice of enthusiasm speaking. I too was very moved by Benedict’s visit. I still have red eyes from happy tears just watching him on TV. I think they meant he is so inspiring how can anyone resist, but you’re right, that isn’t reason enough to become a Catholic.

I agree with you on the last 2 points. Thank you for writing!

That’s quite intelligent of you–JUST KIDDING! I agree with your intent here. I know what you mean. We have to be understanding of one another’s positions if we are to help each other and learn from one another.

 

[srferdave]

Jesus said that the only way to heaven is through him. Jesus founded the Catholic Church. He gave us this so that we might receive graces on our journey to heaven. I don’t believe non-Catholics are going to hell. I think the Catholic Church teaches what is neccessary to get to heaven. So not being the part of the Catholic Church will make it harder to get to heaven. But, thats also what I believe purgatory is for. To give us the ability to find truth if we didn’t with our time on earth.

 

[Righteousone]

Catholics aren’t vain but content…wouldn’t you be if you knew for a fact Jesus started your church?

 

[1ke]

• RCC is the only one correct church

This is not vanity or opinion. It is the Truth, a teaching of the Catholic Church. There is only one Church, and the fullness of truth resides only in her.

• Everyone else is going to Hell - no matter if you profess Jesus as your Savior and believe in the Trininity (and are Baptized).
• the thought that Protestants have no right to basically worship Jesus - the whole argument of why do you copy us and what gives you the right to worship differently than “us” kind of thing.
• I have seen in a post below that it is thought people should convert because the Pope has a large following and because he “does good things” essentially (well nobody does good outside the CC?)
• Unwillingness by some to even acknowledge that the church has done mistakes as well.
• are so happy when people join their religion and are very loving, but throw threats against those who are not a part of their church (or especially those who leave the church - you are damned and are going to Hell type of stuff).

None of these are teachings of the Catholic Church, and such comments would not be charitable, and could definitely be sinful.

1- protestants how do you view those Catholics who say things like you are going to Hell
and

2 - What do Catholics think? Especially the ones who do not believe their “Christian brothers” are all hell bound

Honestly, this is much more typically fundamentalist protestant territory than Catholic territory. In my experience, Catholics generally do not espouse such a position whereas fundamentalist protestants do.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

You’re welcome and thank you.

I see how it could be seen that way, but it’s not accurate. The reformers split from the Church and started their own versions. And while they kept much of the teachings of the CC, they rejected parts of it, although they had no authority from God to do so. Jesus founded one Church not many churches. It saddens him that people decided to go it on their own instead of staying to help the Church where it needed them and submit to the Church where they should have.

They, such Catholics, have no right to be interpreting the documents of the Church on their own any more than they have the right to interpret the Bible on their own. What the Church teaches, and has always taught is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Magisterium (the bishops of the Church in union with the pope) decide what is Catholic teaching not uber-traditionalist “Catholics.” And that’s my rant for the day.

**They don’t agree with you - so you say one thing, but they say another. You can quote the Magisterium - they can, & do quote, the Magisterium. **​

**How is this different in principle from the Bible ping-pong on so many threads ? The only difference is, that the texts are taken from the Magisterium of bishops, popes & Councils, rather than from the Bible. The problems are the same ****This happens all the time on the forums. How does this differ from the (alleged) chaos of Protestantism, except in being concealed by an outward appearance of unity ? Teaching has to be interpreted - & the internet makes checking aberrant interpretations impossible. The laity thereby become their own magisterium. **

The CCC is all very well, but it is no more than a text. If the Bible is not perspicuous, why should the CCC be ? All the arguments against interpreting the Bible on one’s own apply to the CCC. Conversely, if the CCC can be understood by the average Catholic - why should the Bible not be understood by the average Christian ? Ultimately, the CCC is no better at clarifying its own meaning than the Bible.

 

[Della]

**They don’t agree with you - so you say one thing, but they say another. You can quote the Magisterium - they can, & do quote, the Magisterium. **​

**How is this different in principle from the Bible ping-pong on so many threads ? The only difference is, that the texts are taken from the Magisterium of bishops, popes & Councils, rather than from the Bible. The problems are the same ****This happens all the time on the forums. How does this differ from the (alleged) chaos of Protestantism, except in being concealed by an outward appearance of unity ? Teaching has to be interpreted - & the internet makes checking aberrant interpretations impossible. The laity thereby become their own magisterium. **

The CCC is all very well, but it is no more than a text. If the Bible is not perspicuous, why should the CCC be ? All the arguments against interpreting the Bible on one’s own apply to the CCC. Conversely, if the CCC can be understood by the average Catholic - why should the Bible not be understood by the average Christian ? Ultimately, the CCC is no better at clarifying its own meaning than the Bible.

You seem to be in some sort of confusion as to the role of the Magisterium, the CCC, and the Bible. These three support and compliment each other. They are in no way in any sort of conflict. What you have written is simply not the case, but let’s not take the thread off topic. I suggest you either look for a thread that discusses this or start one in the right forum.

 

[Righteousone]

**They don’t agree with you - so you say one thing, but they say another. You can quote the Magisterium - they can, & do quote, the Magisterium. **​

**How is this different in principle from the Bible ping-pong on so many threads ? The only difference is, that the texts are taken from the Magisterium of bishops, popes & Councils, rather than from the Bible. The problems are the same ****This happens all the time on the forums. How does this differ from the (alleged) chaos of Protestantism, except in being concealed by an outward appearance of unity ? Teaching has to be interpreted - & the internet makes checking aberrant interpretations impossible. The laity thereby become their own magisterium. **

The CCC is all very well, but it is no more than a text. If the Bible is not perspicuous, why should the CCC be ? All the arguments against interpreting the Bible on one’s own apply to the CCC. Conversely, if the CCC can be understood by the average Catholic - why should the Bible not be understood by the average Christian ? Ultimately, the CCC is no better at clarifying its own meaning than the Bible.

You cannot be a Catholic for saying this. You are here in disguise for everything you say is AGAINST the Catholic church.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I just wanted some opinions - from Catholics and from others here. I mean some things that I seem to hear A LOT of on this board (not so much on other boards on this site though) are the following:

• RCC is the only one correct church
• Everyone else is going to Hell - no matter if you profess Jesus as your Savior and believe in the Trininity (and are Baptized).
• the thought that Protestants have no right to basically worship Jesus - the whole argument of why do you copy us and what gives you the right to worship differently than “us” kind of thing.
• I have seen in a post below that it is thought people should convert because the Pope has a large following and because he “does good things” essentially (well nobody does good outside the CC?)
• Unwillingness by some to even acknowledge that the church has done mistakes as well.
• are so happy when people join their religion and are very loving, but throw threats against those who are not a part of their church (or especially those who leave the church - you are damned and are going to Hell type of stuff).

All of these things lead me to think are some Catholics a little vain? Isn’t that too a sin? Shouldn’t they (along with all other Christians - this is not just a slam against Catholics) try to find at least a friendly middle ground without attacking eachother making us look petty and like we can not even come to agreements when regarding our Main religion - Christianity?

Now I am not talking all Catholics - many Catholics get along great with other religions, have friends in Protestant religions, and can get a long very well. They pray for eachother and hope they find the right path to God. They do not pressure eachother and tell eachother how wrong the other one is. I never had anyone tell me at RCIA I was going to Hell unless I converted. On the contrary they acknowledged that while we are differen’t “religions” we worship God and our goals are to become closer to God in the best way we know and that GOD LOVES ALL.

I have not even gotten such cold responses from any of the priests or monks I have met (any of them) telling me that all non-Catholics will go to Hell and trying to tell me how wrong I am. Why do some take it to extremes?

When some Catholics say you are going to Hell if you don’t walk,talk and act like us, do they really think they are influencing the person to consider the CC? If I came up to you and demanded you do this and that and told you everything you knew was wrong and you were damned, you probably would come on here saying how some protestant harassed you

So I guess my two questions are

1- protestants how do you view those Catholics who say things like you are going to Hell

and

2 - What do Catholics think? Especially the ones who do not believe their “Christian brothers” are all hell bound

**Speaking as somebody in group two, I think it’s very depressing, & I’m very sorry you’ve come across that kind of thing. I don’t know which is more depressing: the presence of this cultish attitiude in the CC in particular - or the presence of it in other Churches. IMHO & AFAICS, it is an issue of sociology, but as the US is a very religious country (in some ways), it appears in a religious form. **​

 

[jcoldc]

I know everyone who is religious thinks their religion is right. Or they would be in a different religion. I don’t notice that Catholics say others are going to hell as much as others say to us, especially with Invincible Ignorance. I’m sure some say those things. And when I hear uncharitable comments coming from Catholics, I cringe. I just feel like we should pride ourselves in not being like them.

However, I have noticed that some posters are particularly harsh on other posters in general (Catholic or not). I notice some people coming to the forum with real concerns and get verbally stoned, when they’re looking for help. They’re judged. I’ve seen posters leave the forum, never to return. I wonder what kind of hurt some people are placing on them at a really bad time in their lives. I wonder how many of them have left the Church or lapsed because of some of the things posters here have said. What kind of sin could that be?

I know people want to rely the true church teachings, but I do think people should think and pray (as is often their advice) before they post on someone else’s problems.

 

[rinnie]

Dont you think sometimes too People ask us about the faith, then we answer them to the best of our ability. then we get (this seems to be a cycle) where in the bible does it say that. Then if we show them they are mad. Then if we explain Oral Teachings also then we are lied to, I mean lets face it. Again why are some Catholics vain? Why couldnt it say some people in general of all religions. And then it seems threads like this usually lead to us defending our Church and someone getting upset because they were pushed and then set a bad example for the Church, Im guility of it at times we all are, We are human. But lets state the Truth here all People are vain at one time or another no matter what Religion they are. And how many people come on these sites pretending to learn the faith and really just want to argue and tear down the faith also. ITs just hard to tell thats all. But myself why would I go on a Protestant site and condem them. I just wouldnt do it thats all. But alot of people just want to argue our Religion and I dont know why i really dont. I would much rather discuss my own Religon and learn more then to fight with others. So I guess my answer to you is I dont think they mean to be they just get provoked and pushed sometimes and become bad examples. Like I said I myself have been guility of it also. But i do try to be better every time. So i am trying. But to be honest and i advise anyone if you want to really know the Faith go to the Church. ITs the true teachings. Not us we are human and we can make mistakes.

 

[Pinkyyy]

And then it seems threads like this usually lead to us defending our Church and someone getting upset because they were pushed and then set a bad example for the Church

I am not trying to make you defend really, but am making an observation that seemed true to me - this is the message that is coming accross to me from some posts and responses by Catholics on this board. I get that this is probably from a few people who are a little extreme.

But myself why would I go on a Protestant site and condem them. I just wouldnt do it thats all.

Yes, you may not go to Protestant sites and condem them, but some Catholics on here condem protestant who are visiting with threads such as (and I am paraphrasing here) “why wouldn’t you want to be a part of the church after seeing how great our Pope is?” and “will non-catholics have salvation”, "if you are Christian why are you not Catholic? , and “why don’t all christians admit the that Pope is their leader?”

and if protestants disagree then some catholics will kind of jump on them saying they are wrong and there’s only one true faith and so on. You get what I am saying I think. Some non-catholics too do the same thing - I am not saying they don’t. But this is a board for non-catholics to converse with Catholics so sometimes I expect better and not posts (and responses) such as these.

I would much rather discuss my own Religon and learn more then to fight with others. So I guess my answer to you is I dont think they mean to be they just get provoked and pushed sometimes and become bad examples.

I would like that too - I hope that people can discuss on both sides without sounding kind of “vain” - as I put it .

 

[rinnie]

Yes I do understand some of what you say. But think of it this way too, maybe when the person said that about the Pope, consider that instead of being so vain, maybe she just feels so much love and respect for him and cant understand how anyone couldnt. And at the risk of sounding vain myself you must admit he is hard not to Love and Respect. We sure have been very lucky, the last 2 Popes have been truely amazing. Maybe we are just proud of them. I sure am. And they both had such a way of getting the word of God out and making all feel so welcome and loved no matter what the faith. Thats truely amazing! Wouldnt you agree? ITs like when they leave there isnt much fighting its more of a bonding type of thing. Peace and Love and Blessing of Christ given to all.

 

[MementoMori3283]

I just wanted some opinions - from Catholics

• RCC is the only one correct church

correct - the Roman Catholic Church teaches the fullness of the Gospel and guards, with extreme prejudice, the deposit of faith.

• Everyone else is going to Hell - no matter if you profess Jesus as your Savior and believe in the Trininity (and are Baptized).

incorrect - no one knows the mercy of God. Ex 33:19

However, it would behoove the learned to make serious inquiry as to why Paul rebuked the woman who said, “listen to these men for they have a way to salvation.” Acts 16:17-19

• the thought that Protestants have no right to basically worship Jesus - the whole argument of why do you copy us and what gives you the right to worship differently than “us” kind of thing.

obviously, a very ignorant way of thinking which I do not believe is espoused by the **faithful **

• I have seen in a post below that it is thought people should convert because the Pope has a large following and because he “does good things” essentially (well nobody does good outside the CC?)

obviously, a very ignorant way of thinking which I do not believe is espoused by the **faithful **

I mean no disrespect to the OP, but I do not believe this to be the, although it could be a, reason to follow Christ in the fullness of the Catholic Church.

• Unwillingness by some to even acknowledge that the church has done mistakes as well.

The Church can not make mistakes about the faith and morals due to its guidance by the Holy Spirit of Truth.

However, men and women within the Catholic Church have sinned greatly against God and their fellow man.

• are so happy when people join their religion and are very loving, but throw threats against those who are not a part of their church (or especially those who leave the church - you are damned and are going to Hell type of stuff).

obviously, a very ignorant way of thinking which I do not believe is espoused by the **faithful **

“Irrational faith – faith detached from reason, from an understanding of God as a creator who imprints his reason on his creation – leads to a situation in which people believe that God commands them to do the irrational; the result is a great hole in lower Manhattan and 3,000 deaths,”…“This notion that there may be ‘your truth’ and ‘my truth’ but nothing we recognize as ‘the truth’ makes it very hard for the West to make the case for civility, tolerance and religious freedom in the face of irrational faith,” George Wiegel-scholar, author, Catholic

-What do Catholics think? Especially the ones who do not believe their “Christian brothers” are all hell bound

see above, as well as understanding that although the Church teaches the fullness of the faith, depending on the individual, there is a learning curve:shrug: