Are some Catholics sometimes vain?

[rinnie]

Hi,
I dont know a single catholic outside this forum that thinks they are the only ones going to heaven. And actually not one thinks that the CC is the only true church. Even though this is what the CC teaches-all the catholics I know dont buy it.

I think the ones(who say this) on this forum are just a different breed of catholics that are extremely legalistic. I could say the same for some people of all religions as well.

As a born again believer who loves Christ and gave my life up to follow Him, it is irritating and arrogant to me for anyone to say their church is the only way
To me, that is limiting God and putting Him in a box.

I must say I agree with the first part of your post. But to be honest I dont recall the RCC ever in my life to say anyone is not going to heaven. BUt I must say yes Jesus started the Church. ANd it was the CC. Now if you dont want to believe that, again who am I to fight with you. Jesus says no, dont do that. You tell the truth the best you can, and let the Holy Spirit take over. For me to fight with you or tell you this or that is not my place. All I can say is yes Peter did start the Church. And the first Church was the CC. Now if that is not true then the Creed of the Apostles is untrue. And how can we go by the Apostles teachings that we both agree are in the bible, if we deny their Creed or their Church. That is just my point. But that is my proof. That and the Holy Spirit guiding me is all I have. Now my question to you is how can you say that the Apostles didnt start the CC, And if you feel they didnt that is fine, but now where is your proof that it wasnt the CC. My proof would be in the Apostles Creed, Where is your proof that I am wrong. Thank you. and please no hard feelings, that is not what this is about.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Perhaps you should look into it.

I have actually and the CC is very confusing on this. Pre-Vatican II says one thing and Vatican II loosens the grip:shrug:

So which do you believe?

That is why I choose to believe the bible:thumbsup:

 

[Righteousone]

I have actually and the CC is very confusing on this. Pre-Vatican II says one thing and Vatican II loosens the grip:shrug:

So which do you believe?

That is why I choose to believe the bible:thumbsup:

Why can’t you take the RCIA lessons and go from there?

 

[jcoldc]

You Konw–that is a great comment!! I would like to hear the answer for that one as well
How on earth then can I possibly think I have a chance at heaven if Im not a member of the CC?

I believe the answer is that NCC are considered separated members of the Church. I think someone else can probably explain it better… But I think that technically, the Church still considers NCC as part of the Church in some way.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I must say I agree with the first part of your post. But to be honest I dont recall the RCC ever in my life to say anyone is not going to heaven. BUt I must say yes Jesus started the Church. ANd it was the CC. Now if you dont want to believe that, again who am I to fight with you. Jesus says no, dont do that. You tell the truth the best you can, and let the Holy Spirit take over. For me to fight with you or tell you this or that is not my place. All I can say is yes Peter did start the Church. And the first Church was the CC. Now if that is not true then the Creed of the Apostles is untrue. And how can we go by the Apostles teachings that we both agree are in the bible, if we deny their Creed or their Church. That is just my point. But that is my proof. That and the Holy Spirit guiding me is all I have. Now my question to you is how can you say that the Apostles didnt start the CC, And if you feel they didnt that is fine, but now where is your proof that it wasnt the CC. My proof would be in the Apostles Creed, Where is your proof that I am wrong. Thank you. and please no hard feelings, that is not what this is about.

Hi,

Thank you for your post My proof is the bible. You see the CC isnt what is referred to in the bible. The church is the body of believers wherever they are across the world in and out of the CC.

The reason why we disagree on this is because simply–we have a different definition of who the church is.

I believe that is where all of the differences stem from. Well and I suppose the authority issue to–but that still goes back to who the church is.
The CC is never once mentioned in the bible nor are the authorities you(your church) think are and there is just no proof(in the bible)of apostolic succession and that the apostles powers were passed on to only a select group of people.

Anyway, we know we disagree with each other–like you said–not interested in arguing.

But thank you for being so kind.

 

[jcoldc]

I have actually and the CC is very confusing on this. Pre-Vatican II says one thing and Vatican II loosens the grip:shrug:

So which do you believe?

That is why I choose to believe the bible:thumbsup:

Just posted this, but I’l lsay it again.

The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. So sometimes changes are OK.

Take a look at our Pope. From those who know him, and as he served under JPII, people thought he would be a stern pope who comes down hard on heretics. However, now they are saying he is much tamer and a Pope of hope. Why??? I think it’s the guidance of the Holy Spirit!

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Why can’t you take the RCIA lessons and go from there?

I have considered it–not to join but to see what they teach.

If you are not completely sure of what your church teaches–enough to give someone like me an answer–I would be careful what you say here if you feel you cant give an answer:thumbsup:

 

[Righteousone]

I have considered it–not to join but to see what they teach.

If you are not completely sure of what your church teaches–enough to give someone like me an answer–I would be careful what you say here if you feel you cant give an answer:thumbsup:

What are you talking about??? Confused in what my church teaches? Oh brother…

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Just posted this, but I’l lsay it again.

The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. So sometimes changes are OK.

Take a look at our Pope. From those who know him, and as he served under JPII, people thought he would be a stern pope who comes down hard on heretics. However, now they are saying he is much tamer and a Pope of hope. Why??? I think it’s the guidance of the Holy Spirit!

That is not what other catholics say They say the church NEVER changes!

But I do agree with you. You see since the church is the body of believers(individual people) the Holy Spirit does guide them and so people do change in their thought process due to the nudging of the HS:thumbsup: I do not know the Popes heart but I hope and pray he is a born again believer.

 

[rinnie]

Please comment on this excerpt from my post:

Catholic schools HAVE taught that non-Catholics cannot go to heaven. Period. No exceptions or qualifications were mentioned. The clear message: Only Catholics can hope to spend eternal life with God.

Ok well lets see, My Aunt and 2 cousins went to the Catholic School, My Aunt is 69. My Cousins are 59. By brother is 57, My Sister is 50 I am 47 my other sister is 43. Now we can sign a paper, swear in a court of law whatever it would take to prove you wrong. Now if thats not old enough ages, let me know i will have to dig up some older witness if needed. Or is that the ages you are talking about. PM me anytime and I can give you the name of the School, Church we all went to the same one, And all were taught the same, And my Children 21 and 24 again same school, same Church again we taught the same. Again we were taught only God will judge us on Judgement day. We were taught how lucky we were to have our partents send us to learn about God not all people are as fortunate as us. We were taught, to love respect others, be kind, and pray for all. We were never taught that we were going to heaven and others were not! Yes we were taught that the RCC is the true Church, but that is not saying others are going to Hell. Never were those words spoken.

 

[patg]

If in fact that is what you were taught, then Sister made a mistake, according to your own words ONE of my teachers, Nuns arent God. So this nun made a mistake,

I am certain these nuns were well aware of what they were teaching and believed it to be the truth. And yes, these nuns were essentially “god” to young children - they were, after the parents, the primary and all-powerful authority figures in our lives. They may have taught wrongly but their words carried a lot of force and made many strong impressions.

Thats still not the teachings of the RCC. Do you agree with this? Or do you feel that is what the RCC teaches?

Of course I don’t believe that nonsense now BUT, eight year olds are still Catholics and when I was in elementary school, I was taught that by numerous people responsible for my Catholic education, that is all I am saying.

I am sorry if this in fact is true, then the teacher made a mistake, But again how can you blame the Religion.

I don’t blame the religion. But Catholics have been taught these things during their formative education.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

What are you talking about??? Confused in what my church teaches? Oh brother…

Im sorry I didnt mean you were confused. I dont know you. But you dont seem to be able or want to maybe try to explain it to me. Oh well–it is OK. I know sometimes it is hard to articulate what you believe because I have problems with that as well.

 

[mercygate]

That is not what other catholics say They say the church NEVER changes!

But I do agree with you. You see since the church is the body of believers(individual people) the Holy Spirit does guide them and so people do change in their thought process due to the nudging of the HS:thumbsup: I do not know the Popes heart but I hope and pray he is a born again believer.

If you ever read anything written by B-16, you would have no doubt! Jesus of Nazareth is a compelling “must read” for ANY Christian.

 

[jcoldc]

That is not what other catholics say They say the church NEVER changes!

But I do agree with you. You see since the church is the body of believers(individual people) the Holy Spirit does guide them and so people do change in their thought process due to the nudging of the HS:thumbsup: I do not know the Popes heart but I hope and pray he is a born again believer.

There are some Catholics who might not like some of the changes of Vatican II. (I think that might be what you are talking about.) The Church hasn’t had many changes. For example, it doesn’t decide to change it’s view on contraception, just to get with the times. However, it has made some changes, modifications and clarifications over the milleniums. Look at the selling indulgences debaucle. (I’m still trying to learn a lot, so bear with me.) As I understand it, the RCC never approved of this. It’s just that some in authority took it in their own hands to do something very wrong, as well as grossly misintrepret the teaching of donating money to support the church as serving the Lord. The Chruch had to go back and later reclarify what was really being taught. It has changed it’s idea of the all Latin mass etc.

 

[HashemEchad]

I just wanted some opinions - from Catholics and from others here. I mean some things that I seem to hear A LOT of on this board (not so much on other boards on this site though) are the following:

• RCC is the only one correct church
• Everyone else is going to Hell - no matter if you profess Jesus as your Savior and believe in the Trininity (and are Baptized).
• the thought that Protestants have no right to basically worship Jesus - the whole argument of why do you copy us and what gives you the right to worship differently than “us” kind of thing.
• I have seen in a post below that it is thought people should convert because the Pope has a large following and because he “does good things” essentially (well nobody does good outside the CC?)
• Unwillingness by some to even acknowledge that the church has done mistakes as well.
• are so happy when people join their religion and are very loving, but throw threats against those who are not a part of their church (or especially those who leave the church - you are damned and are going to Hell type of stuff).

All of these things lead me to think are some Catholics a little vain? Isn’t that too a sin? Shouldn’t they (along with all other Christians - this is not just a slam against Catholics) try to find at least a friendly middle ground without attacking eachother making us look petty and like we can not even come to agreements when regarding our Main religion - Christianity?

Now I am not talking all Catholics - many Catholics get along great with other religions, have friends in Protestant religions, and can get a long very well. They pray for eachother and hope they find the right path to God. They do not pressure eachother and tell eachother how wrong the other one is. I never had anyone tell me at RCIA I was going to Hell unless I converted. On the contrary they acknowledged that while we are differen’t “religions” we worship God and our goals are to become closer to God in the best way we know and that GOD LOVES ALL.

I have not even gotten such cold responses from any of the priests or monks I have met (any of them) telling me that all non-Catholics will go to Hell and trying to tell me how wrong I am. Why do some take it to extremes?

When some Catholics say you are going to Hell if you don’t walk,talk and act like us, do they really think they are influencing the person to consider the CC? If I came up to you and demanded you do this and that and told you everything you knew was wrong and you were damned, you probably would come on here saying how some protestant harassed you

So I guess my two questions are

1- protestants how do you view those Catholics who say things like you are going to Hell

and

2 - What do Catholics think? Especially the ones who do not believe their “Christian brothers” are all hell bound

When I was a kid (1960s), there was a joke about Catholics along these lines, it went something like this:

A Protestant died and went to Heaven. He was met at the gates by St Peter, who took him on a tour of Heaven.

He showed him the room for the Jews, the Presbyterians, the Anglicans, etc.

Then he said, “Now we have to be very quiet and tiptoe past this next room. Its for the Catholics, and they think they’re the only ones here”.

After Vatican II trickled down finally to our area, the joke seems to have been changed. Now, instead of “Catholics”, its “Baptists”!

 

[rinnie]

Hi,

Thank you for your post My proof is the bible. You see the CC isnt what is referred to in the bible. The church is the body of believers wherever they are across the world in and out of the CC.

The reason why we disagree on this is because simply–we have a different definition of who the church is.

I believe that is where all of the differences stem from. Well and I suppose the authority issue to–but that still goes back to who the church is.
The CC is never once mentioned in the bible nor are the authorities you(your church) think are and there is just no proof(in the bible)of apostolic succession and that the apostles powers were passed on to only a select group of people.

Anyway, we know we disagree with each other–like you said–not interested in arguing.

But thank you for being so kind.

Ok and thank you also, we can discuss this nicely I believe. Now let me ask you this, Why did Jesus breath on the Apostles and give them the authority to go out and teach, and make disciples, If he didnt want them to go out and teach and choose, why is that mentioned in the bible. ( just asking maybe you are right im seeing it wrong). Why didnt he just breath on everyone and say you dont need the Apostles, you dont need the Church, Why did he say this is my Church the gates of hell will not prevail. Didnt he ask the Apostles to go start his Church led by Peter? Why did he change Peters name from Simon to Peter and say you are the Rock? On this rock I will build my CHURCH, (what does that mean) Peter feed my sheep what does that mean, actually he asked him 3 times. Why do we have the Apostles Creed and in it it says we believe in ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH. Again maybe I was misled all of my life, maybe you can explain these things to me. Again no disrespect. But that is why I believe what I do. I do believe in the Apostles teachings and in the Church they built. So now you help me. Where was I misled?

 

[rinnie]

Also if you dont mind me saying I was taught that unity of Christ and the Church head and members of one body. ( Not in and out of the CC). It implies the distinction of two within a personal relationship by image of bridegroom and bride. Announced by John the Baptist the Lord referred to himself as the bridegroom. The Apostles speaks of the whole church and of each of the faithful members of his Body as a bride betrothed to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him. The Church is the spotless bride for the spotless Lamb. Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her that he might sanctify her. The church is one, Read rev21:14 The church is apostolic she is bui lt on a lasting foundation the twelve apostles of the lamb. She is indestructible. (ct 16:18) She is upheld infallibly in truth, Christ governs her through Peter and the other apostles, who are present in their successsors, the Pope and the college of bishops. The sole Church of CHrist which in the Creed we profess to be ONE. Hope that helps.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

If you ever read anything written by B-16, you would have no doubt! Jesus of Nazareth is a compelling “must read” for ANY Christian.

Thank you for the reference Mercy:thumbsup:

 

[mercygate]

Thank you for the reference Mercy:thumbsup:

Jesus of Nazareth is extremely dense. I’m reading it in 15-minute spurts. And sometimes in 15 minutes I read more than I can digest. This guy is AWESOME!

 

[rinnie]

Jesus of Nazareth is extremely dense. I’m reading it in 15-minute spurts. And sometimes in 15 minutes I read more than I can digest. This guy is AWESOME!

This is the best book ive read in ten years. Its is wonderful.