Are Some People Afraid Of The Latin Mass?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seamus_L
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Seamus_L

Guest
Opinions ?
My own observance has been that alot of people believe we can never fully return to it.
 
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not ‘afraid’ of it, however, neither am I ‘comfortable’ with it. It is unknown to me. It’s not a ‘return’ to anything for me. The NO is all I have known as a convert. A Latin Mass would be all new for me, a novelty, if you will. I’m sure it’s beautiful, but I rather enjoy the NO, which is equally as beautiful, esp since we get to receive Jesus. He’s present and that’s the point.
 
To me, it’s all about relevance. The Latin Mass just doesn’t connect. Sorry.🤷
 
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not ‘afraid’ of it, however, neither am I ‘comfortable’ with it. It is unknown to me. It’s not a ‘return’ to anything for me. The NO is all I have known as a convert. A Latin Mass would be all new for me, a novelty, if you will. I’m sure it’s beautiful, but I rather enjoy the NO, which is equally as beautiful, esp since we get to receive Jesus. He’s present and that’s the point.
I grew up with the NO Mass and didn’t care for it. I thought it boring and I didn’t like the music.

When I started attending a few TLM’s, I felt like I was re-visiting a place of childhood memory, but I also experienced a disconnect. I really liked the Gregorian chant though.
 
Opinions ?
Code:
                           My own observance has been that alot of people believe we can never fully return to it.
While true some may be somewhat afraid of it, my observation has been that most of those opposed to it actually hate it and see it any return to it as backsliding and a tacit admission that the reforms sought by Vatican II might not have been needed or even in the best interest of the Church.

Now of course they will not admit that except in rare circumstances, you know being charitable and all that and will loudly proclaim that it, the Traditional Mass is fine, but only for those who really want it. If you look back on the threads on this subject that seems to be the general tone of a huge number of the anti Traditional Mass crowd.

As far as a widespread return , I doubt it, unless the Holy Father himself says to do it Even then, I seriously doubt that the more progressive among us would ever accept a return to it under any circumstances whatsoever. Heck, just look at how they feel about receiving on the tongue as the Holy Father has clearly expressed a preference for. You don’t see a lot of them switching just because he thinks it is a good idea do you?
 
Yes and No. There are people who have a complete aversion towards it for their own reasons. Then there are a lot of people who don’t have much thought about it at all. If asked about it, some (people of my generation and younger) have no clue what a Latin mass is and that mass was said in Latin for centuries. Sometimes they’ll think it sounds really “cool” when you explain it to them and are a bit more open to attending one.

Others who are old enough to remember the Latin mass will say that they prefer it in the vernacular because they have a better understanding of what’s going on at mass, although they don’t mind having a Latin mass at their parish. Then there are others, when mentioning the words “Latin Mass”, they make grimaces and say things like it was the mass for people in the “dark ages” and kind of get vocally violent about their dislike for it. Others would be afraid that people wouldn’t know what was going on at mass.

A few others are afraid it may bring back practices that made them leave the Church originally before coming back, or remind them of the nuns that used to beat and humiliate them and their classmates in school. I usually hear about this from baby boomers. The generation before that usually had nice things to say about the sisters with the exception of a couple bad apples. Not sure why that is.

Anyway, these are all things I’ve heard from Catholics I know or met. I’m sure there are different reasons from others.
 
Opinions ?

My own observance has been that alot of people believe we can never fully return to it.
I’m sure there are some people who are afraid of it just as there are people who are afraid of homosexuality (ie homophobes), but my opinion is that in both cases, the reality is that people don’t like it for different reasons other than fear. I don’t like it because I enjoy Mass in english.

Peace

Tim
 
Yes. They’re terrified.

I say this as a guy who goes to the Old Latin Mass. When I tell people that, they look at me like I said that I’ve got a poisonous tail… and that I might strike them with it. (Take that- ha!)

Strangely, I think the thing that scares people the most is the Latin thing. I say it’s strange, because it’s the Latin that is the smallest part of the TLM to me. I don’t speak Latin, but I can read the side-by-side Missal just fine. I just read the English side and glance back-and-forth to the Latin side to make sure that I’m keeping pace with Father.

If you’ve never been, it’s hard to explain without sounding like an arrogant tweed; but the TLM is better. Yes, the Novus Ordo is valid and it’s still Jesus and (most) trads will agree with you there. But validity is a pretty low bar.

Really, if you’ve never been a lot, it’s hard to explain without sounding like an arrogant tweed. It takes some practice, some flipping through the Missal, some catechesis-- traditional Catholicism is “honors Catholicism”, it takes some learning. But the prayers are different, the roles of the servers are different, the roles of the laity are different-- it’s not just that Father’s facing the wrong direction and talking in the wrong language. It’s a totally different experience for priest and layman.

Sure, all of the elements are there… especially if you know how to look for them-- the “opening prayer” is called the “introit”, the “prayer over the gifts” is called the “secret”, though the Today’s Missal calls the “Lord have mercy” the “Kyriale”, they actualy say “Kyrie Eleison” at the Latin Mass. Though “Kyrie Eleison” is actually Greek, not Latin. But I digress. Just because the “Holy Holy Holy” is just the “Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus” doesn’t mean that we’re dealing with a simple matter of translation.

I mean, I speak a little conversational Spanish, but I don’t have any interest in going to the 9 Spanish Masses in my city. Because the Spanish Mass is just the Novus Ordo in Spanish (with a little iFiesta! thrown in)-- that is a matter of translation. The old Latin Mass is not a matter of translation, it’s a different form of the rite, it’s essentially a different liturgy. With different theological and philosophical implications for the people who pray like Catholics have prayed since Catholicism immemorial.

People who say that they don’t like the TLM because they like English-- while a valid concern-- are missing the point.
 
The truth is the prayers are different.

It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that the OF is watered down. The Mass is still the Mass, but the EF is comparable to the unchanged Eastern Rites that evolved naturally.

The OF seems like a buckthorn branch grafted onto an olive tree.
 
Just because someone might prefer one rite doesn’t mean he’s “afraid” of another.

I love the Byzantine tradition. Does this mean I’m “afraid” of either form of the Roman rite? No. It just means I prefer the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil.

Furthermore, as the Original Poster put it, not thinking there will ever be a full return to the EF does NOT mean that people are afraid of it, either.
 
I think some people fear what we represent to them, and that is the Catholic Church as it was 50 yrs ago. They prefer their ultra-liberal parishes where Hell and Purgatory are never mentioned, most people never go to confession, altar girls and female eucharistic ministers are the norm, and no one want’s to go back to the “Bad Old Days” because they’ve already spent alot of time apologizing for that.
 
I think some people fear what we represent to them, and that is the Catholic Church as it was 50 yrs ago. They prefer their ultra-liberal parishes where Hell and Purgatory are never mentioned, most people never go to confession, altar girls and female eucharistic ministers are the norm, and no one want’s to go back to the “Bad Old Days” because they’ve already spent alot of time apologizing for that.
It could be that or, as in my case, I don’t want to learn latin.

Peace

Tim
 
I think some people fear what we represent to them, and that is the Catholic Church as it was 50 yrs ago. They prefer their ultra-liberal parishes where Hell and Purgatory are never mentioned, most people never go to confession, altar girls and female eucharistic ministers are the norm, and no one want’s to go back to the “Bad Old Days” because they’ve already spent alot of time apologizing for that.
Or that we have a quite, Holy and Orthadox parish who celebrates the NO just fine and have no need for the Latin Mass! Why always assume the worst? Why accuse those of us who prefer the NO of being “afraid” …I’m not afraid of the Latin Mass. I love Latin, sing in it all the time. I would have to learn the form, but I don’t need to, We have a valid, holy Mass every Sunday. I’m glad that the Latin Mass is available to those who long for it and it should have been available this whole time. Why not be GRATEFUL that it IS available to so many now? Why beat a dead horse?
 
To me, it’s all about relevance. The Latin Mass just doesn’t connect. Sorry.🤷
We meet God where He is, not the other way around.

The Traditional Latin Mass forces us to prayerfully connect to Him and be relevant to Him. It forces us to exert ourselves and actively participate, instead of sitting passively in a pew.

The TLM brings out the mystery of the Eucharist in a way the Pauline Mass never can. That’s its principal attribute. It’s a sacrifice offered to the Father for the remission of sins, not a celebration and glorification of the community in an attempt to be “relevant”.

If the mystery and immensity of Christ’s sacrifice isn’t “relevant” to you, then your priorities need to be rearranged.
 
i think people arent afraid of the mass as much as being afraid to see how much they have been led astray from their catholic roots. especially the younger generation who like me were raised in the novus ordo.
i have to tell you. i went through a lot of soul searching when i found the tridentine mass. then i experienced anger because i had no clue how much was taken me from my own bishops, priests, and nuns. then the confusion of why dont other people see what i see. its so obvious.
my life as a catholic would have been so much easier if i had not stumbled upon the tridentine mass. i could have gone with the flow of things, put all my trust in my priests. for the most part, i felt all was asked of me as a catholic when i attended the novus ordo was to attend mass every sunday and holy days of obligation, confession once a yr, and say my rosary.
to be a true catholic takes so much work and it is very overwhelming to my generation.
 
Jennifer
My question was in regards to some people being afraid, not all people.
 
I have not problem with the Novus Ordo, but I really enjoy the Tridentine Mass. I am not to afraid of the Tridentine Mass. I must admit, the first time I attended one I was a little nervous, not knowing Latin and all 😃 I go once every couple of months and am now more used to it. I know my parents enjoy it because the Tridentine Mass takes them back to their childhood. It takes me to a much higher level spiritually. I also feel this heightened level of spirituality when I attend the Divine Liturgy at a local Byzantine Catholic Church.
 
There those who are what I’ll call “EF people” and others who are “OF people.” Both are fine. Through the grace of PP Benedcit XVI and Summorum Pontificum there is an option to assist (yes, I use that word) at the EF. (Well, at least the option itself exists – fighting with obstructionist bishops and pastors to have access to the EF is another matter, but I digress.)

(A) People are frequently afraid of the unknown, and for a lot of folks these days, the EF is a total unknown since it was effectively suppressed in 1970, indults notwithstanding. (It’s easier to get a job today on Wall Street than it was to get a bishop to grant the indult, but I digress again.) These folks are often “won over” once they experience the EF. (I would point to Notre Dame Univ as an example.)

(B) There are other folks who were taught to fear the EF by those who embraced the OF so readily. (Yea, they even anticipated the OF: I vividly recall the goings-on after the 1965 Missal made its brief appearance, but yet again I digress.) Sometimes these folks are likewise “won over” with experience, when they realize that the EF is not the horrid zombie they were taught it was.

(C) And then there are those who fear the EF simply because it IS. For the most part, these are the so-called “teachers” in the above paragraph, and they (including some bishops) are just incorrigible. They are the diehards that will never accept the EF: “oh, it’s not (oy but how I hate the next two words …) relevent or meaningful”, etc etc. Well, maybe it’s not to them, and they are entitled to their opinion as long as they don’t continue to foist that opinion on the rest of the faithful.

To conclude, all I can say to someone in either category A or B is to try the EF a few times. Get a missal and do some online reading. Once the reality of what it is sets in, that reality may well dispel the fears.
 
Or that we have a quite, Holy and Orthadox parish who celebrates the NO just fine and have no need for the Latin Mass! Why always assume the worst? Why accuse those of us who prefer the NO of being “afraid” …I’m not afraid of the Latin Mass. I love Latin, sing in it all the time. I would have to learn the form, but I don’t need to, We have a valid, holy Mass every Sunday. I’m glad that the Latin Mass is available to those who long for it and it should have been available this whole time. Why not be GRATEFUL that it IS available to so many now? Why beat a dead horse?
because people who go to the tlm are treated as outcasts. when i attend the novus ordo, i get weird looks because i believe the way i dress. i thought about removing my veil or hat, and i almost did until a priest told me that he would appreciate it if i would take off my head covering because it is making his parishioners feel uncomfortable. i just smiled politely and told him that the way his parishioners dress makes me feel uncomfortable also.
you also have the luxury of having your mass that you love 10-15min from your door. when if we want to attend a tlm we have to drive over an hr.
your bishop doesnt snub you and shake your childrens hand like its a chore.
when i went to the tlm i was welcomed with open arms. now that i prefer the tlm i am now snubbed in the novus ordo community.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top