Are some people incapable of being religious?

[KJW5551]

“Don’t be troubled if you don’t feel the love of God in yourself, but think about the Lord, that He is merciful, and guard yourself from sins, and the grace of God will teach you.”
-St. Silouan the Athonite

I wouldn’t worry about how you feel (or don’t feel, as may be the case). I think many people only start to feel more religious after major life events like the birth of a child, death of a loved one, etc.

 

[joeybaggz]

am sorry to say you have lost your faith in Jesus by going to other religions. satan is the one who has started all such other religions

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Romans 10:17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.

Hebrews 11:1-3 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 Indeed, by faith our ancestors received approval. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.may i suggest you read the whole chapter.

Isaiah 30For thus said the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel:
In returning and rest you shall be saved;
in quietness and in trust shall be your strength.
But you refused 16 and said,
“No! We will flee upon horses”—
therefore you shall flee!
and, “We will ride upon swift steeds”—
therefore your pursuers shall be swift!
17 A thousand shall flee at the threat of one,
at the threat of five you shall flee,
until you are left
like a flagstaff on the top of a mountain,
like a signal on a hill.

God’s Promise to Zion
18 Therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to you;
therefore he will rise up to show mercy to you.
For the Lord is a God of justice;
blessed are all those who wait for him.

19 Truly, O people in Zion, inhabitants of Jerusalem, you shall weep no more. He will surely be gracious to you at the sound of your cry; when he hears it, he will answer you. 20 Though the Lord may give you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, yet your Teacher will not hide himself any more, but your eyes shall see your Teacher. 21 And when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left, your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.” 22 Then you will defile your silver-covered idols and your gold-plated images. You will scatter them like filthy rags; you will say to them, “Away with you!”

Please don’t give up to know Jesus more,you never know,you may come back to the Catholic Church by making a good confession.god Bless

???

 

[sross]

I just feel like if I can’t feel anything divine then I should be convinced by logic and reasoning. And while I respect the teachings of all major religions, I’m just not persuaded by which religion is right or not. All major religions to me including atheism have their pros and cons but nothing that triumphs the other.

I can claim to be Catholic and be religious but it’ll just feel like an act to me. Going to church and claiming this is the right religion just feels like I’m lying to myself because my mind is searching for something more.

 

[Pup7]

Theban:

The way I see it there are only three plausible religions: Atheism, Buddhism, and the Abrahamic religion.

If atheism is a “religion”, then baldness is a “hairstyle”.

If you shave your head, one could argue it is indeed your hairstyle. A lack of something is still something.

 

[Pup7]

I can claim to be Catholic and be religious but it’ll just feel like an act to me. Going to church and claiming this is the right religion just feels like I’m lying to myself because my mind is searching for something more.

This is why I said to read the book I suggested. Either you’re going to reach a conclusion via logic and reason (and the only way to do that is through apologetics), or you’re not.

 

[joeybaggz]

Atheist = one who does not believe in or denies the existence of deities.
So I can assume the God of Christianity is a deity?
Ergo, the atheist denies the existence of God?
Interesting how you blow off Newton in favor of Einstein. Why not proceed on to Hawking? He was at least as intelligent as Einstein.
Your “explanation” above can only be interpreted as the universe as simply existing from all time. Therefore, God is simply another dimension of what is. Not the first cause of anything. Just another entity in a kettle of pre existent matter, playing his part in the grand scheme of things. Not quite the supreme being us poor intellectual defectives who don’t have Phds in philosophy believe in.
Your “concept” “worldview” or whatever your gods of the human intellect call their “theories” are just that, theory, not empirical fact. A theory by definition cannot be a fact. Newton, Einstein, Hawking, and all the others are magnificent thinkers, but no one has proved their conjectures. You may believe and you are free to, but until what you conjecture has been positively verified as truth, and not theory, please refrain from unloading your magnificent wisdom on those of us who are “naïve”, “illegitimate,” or believers in “misunderstood caricatures.”

 

[Sarcelle]

Faith is an act of the will not feelings.

It is a commitment that you have to make all the time. It is not a done deal and living a life of faith requires perseverance and fortitude. Some days are better than others. Think of it as a marathon.

I always struggle with my inner atheist.

 

[Sophia]

If you shave your head, one could argue it is indeed your hairstyle.

Only a nincompoop could argue that. It might be called a “style”, but not a “hairstyle”. No sane person could argue that a drought is a “kind” of rain. Or that fasting is a “kind” of dinner. Or, maybe… Sahara is a “mountain”? Or vacuum is an “atmosphere”? How irrational can some people get?

A lack of something is still something.

Yeah… something ELSE!

 

[Pup7]

Only a nincompoop could argue that.

Lamer points have been successfully argued. Eloquently, I might add.

Yeah… something ELSE!

Still something. No need to yell about it.

 

[Sophia]

Faith is an act of the will not feelings.

Faith is a synonym for belief. You cannot “will” to believe what you don’t believe.

 

[Pup7]

Atheist = one who does not believe in or denies the existence of deities.
So I can assume the God of Christianity is a deity?
Ergo, the atheist denies the existence of God?

Joey, atheists have no belief in anything. (sarcasm)

Apparently what they think isn’t a belief construct. Belief is a dirty word to most of them these days. What many fail to realize is that no belief is a belief.

Can of worms officially opened.

 

[Sarcelle]

I beg to differ.

As a former atheist, I have before me two choices, believe in a compassionate and merciful God as taught by Jesus or believe in the nonexistence of God.

My emotions and at times my intellect may pull me one way or the other but ultimately I have to make the decision to be Catholic and live according to Catholic teaching.

So I will choose to be Catholic and I will choose to live as a Catholic no matter how I feel or at times even think. I am all too aware that my thinking can be influenced by how I feel. In the end, merit lies with the will. This is what Jesus says to St. Faustina.

Same thing with love, it is not emotions or thoughts but an act of the will.

 

[joeybaggz]

Pup

Definition of atheist stated is that of Wikipedia which is substantially the same as Merriam Webster.

What I find absurd (albeit maybe a bit emotionally) is that the poster claimed that an agnostic Jew (Einstein) was more intelligent than Newton (not sure of Newton’s belief structure). Well, Hawking was an self proclaimed atheist, so why wouldn’t he trump Einstein.

Note - no offense meant to the Jewish people, just stating Einstein’s own claim. In fact the interesting thing about Einstein is that he is reputed to have once said, “that the idea of the creation of the universe denying the existence of God is akin to the composition of the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing press”
I guess I just get peeved at those who posit theory as proven fact. Happens with the evolution crowd all the time.

 

[QwertyGirl]

You aren’t alone in this. Lots of people are the way you describe. What I have figured out is that what matters is that you seek. You said you seek and you learn things about religions. I think if there is a God, he must find it pleasing that you are someone who desires to know him…that is what your post conveys to me, at least.

Don’t feel like you are less of a soul because the pieces haven’t come together for you. You sound like a wonderful person to me.

 

[Pup7]

Definition of atheist stated is that of Wikipedia which is substantially the same as Merriam Webster.

There was a lot of sarcasm in my statement because I’m constantly hearing how atheists don’t believe - in anything. (Insert eye roll - not believing is still belief.) It didn’t translate very well to the typed words.

We’re on the same page, but it would’ve gone over far better in person.

 

[TK421]

I was raised Catholic my whole childhood. I’m 27 male. I’m also autistic and have aspergers. And I just don’t feel any connection to God or any religion at all. I’ve studied and became obsessed and tried for decades to understand religion. Not just Catholocism but all religions like many sects of Protastant, Orthodox, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism. I tried learn about the history, all its teachings, read from apologetics and prayed really hard but I just feel nothing. None of them really makes sense to me because I just want to follow the right and true religion and I just can’t get myself to believe unless it’s historically and logically correct. I’m very knowledgable in all major religions but it’s overwhelming to find the correct one.

I’m an agnostic-atheist not by choice but because I can’t feel anything from it. Why can’t I just read the Bible or any holy book and just believe in it. Or go to a religious center and just feel this touch of God that I hear people feel. There are people that lost their way or abandon God and then have this epiphany and are born again. Or they truly feel that what they believe is true and are contempt with it and I just envy that because I try really hard to want to feel like that and I can’t feel nothing. I just feel like I’m hardwired not to accept religion. Like I want to believe something greater than myself but theres a part of me that doesn’t want to accept it because it doesn’t make sense. Or I try to reach out and I feel empty.

One of the greatest difficulties in religion is having to put with other people in that religion

I think if what you’ve described is true, then you’ve done pretty good so far. I would keep doing what you are doing. I’m a convert to the Church (a pretty lousy one and I don’t mean that modestly) and I’m convinced that Catholicism has a uniquely strong claim among the world’s religions, so I hope you don’t give up in your pursuits.

I follow a regime where I make myself read at least X pages per day, and then if I feel inspired, I will go beyond that. I also make myself pray everyday even though I often don’t want to.

Also, don’t worry about your feelings. Using your feelings as a compass is like using your dog in the passenger’s seat of the car to instruct you on your GPS instructions. It just doesn’t make sense. I know you of course want feelings to help push you along (who doesn’t?), but they either come or they don’t.

Peace.

 

[joeybaggz]

joeybaggz:

Definition of atheist stated is that of Wikipedia which is substantially the same as Merriam Webster.

There was a lot of sarcasm in my statement because I’m constantly hearing how atheists don’t believe - in anything. (Insert eye roll - not believing is still belief.) It didn’t translate very well to the typed words.

We’re on the same page, but it would’ve gone over far better in person.

Understood.

 

[Damian]

None of them really makes sense to me because I just want to follow the right and true religion and I just can’t get myself to believe unless it’s historically and logically correct.

Why? Why wouldn’t you conclude that this social system is not what you need for what you are looking for? You have criteria for what you are using to filter out groups to see what group works for you to find meaning and value in for what you are looking for. Your filter just filter’s out religion and religious type groups. That’s perfectly fine. I do that to. That’s why I don’t geek over comic books and the people that like comic books as well. Religions and Comic books all have a consistently logical back story with beings of magical powers, just they can’t demonstrate their superhero actually exists in reality. You can still find moral discovery and discussion though these stories though. Since the religious are selling their favorite comic book on the premise that their magical character is real and demands a devotional dedication on the level of where I would wear my superman costume secretly under my work clothes all the time, it misses the mark for me. If they sold it as a good historical fiction to dissect in a literature class, then that would be something I could get on board with because then, we would move on to other books to all discuss the social and moral issues we all struggle with and use these books to explore these conflicts in life.

I’m an agnostic-atheist not by choice but because I can’t feel anything from it. Why can’t I just read the Bible or any holy book and just believe in it.

Your absolutely right, belief is not a choice. Experience the event of sitting in a chair and then choose to believe you are not sitting in a chair. It’s not possible. You can learn to lie to everyone around you through religion about how to profess a fake belief till everyone around you believes it, but you can not lie to yourself.
“fake it till you make it” approach

Or go to a religious center and just feel this touch of God that I hear people feel. There are people that lost their way or abandon God and then have this epiphany and are born again.

This deity should know what it would take to convert you and has this telepathic relationship with billions of people on the planet and yet no one has presented this information to you. So either it doesn’t exist or doesn’t want you to know it does exist. Since you can’t go knock on it’s door, it’s out of your hands. So not your problem.

You can find meaning out there with groups that are not religious at all. I volunteer with Engineers without Boarders for example. I like to swing dance, talk about astronomy, DIY maker events, etc. I went on the site, Meetup.com and found people like me that enjoy these things and the socialization. We also get together to build projects for people around the community and sit around afterwards to talk about our lives and how we can be better people or just laugh about the day’s events.

 

[Sarcelle]

Quite a poor example of belief.

Belief does not involve denying what is fairly obvious. It is accepting what cannot be proven as inherently true. By the way, religion is not the only thing that does this. Mathematics and logic also does.

Since you are an engineer, you must have had training in basic logic. You are familiar with axioms right? Every reasoning or argument that must be built has as its foundation axioms or postulate. For example, Euclidean geometry has as one of its postulates, that parallel lines do not meet ever. Or take another geometry, hyperbolic geometry where parallel lines do meet. Two different branches of mathematics from two different and opposing axioms.

 

[Damian]

It is accepting what cannot be proven as inherently true

Within demonstated reality. You left that part off. Just like how I can believe me neighbor has a new puppy without me ever seeing any evidence of the new puppy. But I have actually seen puppies before and seen people caring for them as pets. Now you are equating owning a puppy with owning an invisible pet dragon with your definition. One example can be demonstrated in reality, the other can not. Regardless of how logically consistent the story is for the invisible pet dragon.

Quite a poor example of belief.

Why?

Belief does not involve denying what is fairly obvious

Belief is what you have been convinced to be true, even if you don’t have direct knowledge or experience with the idea or event. That’s how I am using it. If you haven’t been convinced about someone else’s idea of reality through their bad evidence and arguments, you remain unconvinced. Lots of ideas are obvious to the endocrinated. Like the earth is flat, alien abduction, Nessie existing, faith healers, souls and angels and demons and spirits, magic crystals, etc. But none of these people can actually demonstrate their truth claims. They are not practicing or channeling powers from an alternate realm. They are either sick or dilluded. What is it about reality that fails to keep your interest? Where these people have to bring their favorite comic book into reality? Spiderman is a cool idea but just because his story is logically internally consistent, does not make him exist in reality.