Are The Jesuits a Viable Option for a Faithful Catholic???

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Just a few things. I am living in a situation in which Jesuits are saying Mass (they call it “liturgy”) for us. Their homilies are less than Catholic. I cringe every time I have to listen to them. I pray for them during the Mass. I’m sure there are saintly Jesuits here and there, but for the most part, at least in this part of the world, they have literally lost the Faith.

Also, St. Therese of Lisieux entered the convent of Lisieux–not Nevers–that was St. Bernadette. The nuns were not in factions at Lisieux–you are confusing St. Therese with St. Teresa of Avila–her order WAS in factions.

I hope this clarifies some things for you.

God bless you.

Sister Terese Peter
LIsieux was in factions, too. Smaller ones, but there was the group supporting the prioress and the group against her, which included Therese’s sisters. The prioress was very irresponsible. Therese couldn’t vote because she had two older sisters already there. She managed to avoid the politics.
 
It’s a little off the topic of the thread, which is making the choice of a religious order to join, but if you could supply a link to the Newman Society’s ‘decent information’ and also the government report to which you referred, I’d like to peruse them, also I’m not sure what sort of ‘exemptions’ you mean, perhaps you could be more specific.
I’ll shoot you a PM so as not to derail the thread any further…

Cheers,
 
Just a few things. I am living in a situation in which Jesuits are saying Mass (they call it “liturgy”) for us. Their homilies are less than Catholic. I cringe every time I have to listen to them. I pray for them during the Mass. I’m sure there are saintly Jesuits here and there, but for the most part, at least in this part of the world, they have literally lost the Faith.

Also, St. Therese of Lisieux entered the convent of Lisieux–not Nevers–that was St. Bernadette. The nuns were not in factions at Lisieux–you are confusing St. Therese with St. Teresa of Avila–her order WAS in factions.

I hope this clarifies some things for you.

God bless you.

Sister Terese Peter
Hi Sister Terese,

May I ask what makes their homilies less Catholic?

-choliks
 
By the way, I came across this thread and thought it might help you in your discernment. It appears that there are some really wonderful newer religious orders that are very focused on fidelity to the magesterium. I bounced around on their webpages for a while and was quite taken with what I saw.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=255955

Peace of Christ,

Jason
 
A timely, but very sad to see, article related to the Jesuit order and some of the issues brought up by the OP.

lifesitenews.com/news/jesuit-leadership-defends-pro-abortion-organization-denounced-by-mexican-ca

I am hopeful that this is a misunderstanding of some sorts…

Peace of Christ,

Jason
The problem is not as black and white as the press and the forums are making it. The real problem is that the Jesuit Provincial is convinced that the organization is not culpable of what it is accused of and the bishop says they are. People are making it look as if the Jesuit Pronvincial is pro-abortion, which is not the case.

Because the bishop and the Provincial are both Ordinaries of equal rank, the only solution is for them to sit down with the information that each has and figure out is real and what is not. My experience has been that when you have two good men looking at the same situation through different windows, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Hopefully, they will both be willing to share information and figure out what is really happening.

My guess is that if this were any other issue, less contraversial, this would not be in the public eye. The bishop and the provincial would have been working on it without everyone else sticking in their two cents. However, the pro-life issue is very important to all of us and we are easily frustrated when these reports come out.

I love the work that LifeSite does, but I always read them with caution. Because I work in pro-life ministry, I can say that there are people in the ministry that are so passionate that they lose objectivity when dealing with conflicting voices. Instead of saying that they have two good men who are not seeing the same picture and that they need to get together, they jump on one wagon and shoot the other. That’s not fair either.

I know nothing about this organization. But I’m reading what the bishop says and what the provincial says and I’m seeing two pro-life men who are not looking through the same lens.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The problem is not as black and white as the press and the forums are making it. The real problem is that the Jesuit Provincial is convinced that the organization is not culpable of what it is accused of and the bishop says they are. People are making it look as if the Jesuit Pronvincial is pro-abortion, which is not the case.

Because the bishop and the Provincial are both Ordinaries of equal rank, the only solution is for them to sit down with the information that each has and figure out is real and what is not. My experience has been that when you have two good men looking at the same situation through different windows, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Hopefully, they will both be willing to share information and figure out what is really happening.

My guess is that if this were any other issue, less contraversial, this would not be in the public eye. The bishop and the provincial would have been working on it without everyone else sticking in their two cents. However, the pro-life issue is very important to all of us and we are easily frustrated when these reports come out.

I love the work that LifeSite does, but I always read them with caution. Because I work in pro-life ministry, I can say that there are people in the ministry that are so passionate that they lose objectivity when dealing with conflicting voices. Instead of saying that they have two good men who are not seeing the same picture and that they need to get together, they jump on one wagon and shoot the other. That’s not fair either.

I know nothing about this organization. But I’m reading what the bishop says and what the provincial says and I’m seeing two pro-life men who are not looking through the same lens.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
I appreciate your thoughts. I have noticed some of that on LifeSite as well so I try to find other sources when I see things that don’t entirely add up. Like I said in my post, I hope it is some sort of misunderstanding.

Peace of Christ,

Jason
 
I appreciate your thoughts. I have noticed some of that on LifeSite as well so I try to find other sources when I see things that don’t entirely add up. Like I said in my post, I hope it is some sort of misunderstanding.

Peace of Christ,

Jason
Passion and prejudice are dangerous emotions. When you combine abortion and Jesuits in one sentence, you trigger both. People are very passionate about abortion and few people are able to discuss it dispassionately, unless they have been deliberately taught to do so. On the other hand, there is a prejudice against the Jesuits.

Part of that prejudice is triggered by the behavior of some of some very vocal members of the Society who have said or done some things that raise eyebrows. Then there is intolerance. Like every large religious order, the Jesuits have been struggling to define their direction. They have a disadvantage that most religious orders do not have. St. Ignatius never wrote a rule for them. Not because he didn’t want to do so, but the Church would not allow it. The last rule that the Church approved was the Rule of St. Francis. After that, every religious community founded had to adopt one of the previously existing rules or have none at all and govern itself by statutes that the founder and the membership voted on and edited at will.
Five-hundred years later, this is not working for the Jesuits and the many communities that were founded without a rule. Those statutes have kept changing and as they change, so does the direction of the community.

While the Jesuits struggle to preserve the charism of St. Ignatius, they also struggle to figure out what that charism is supposed to look like today. Unlike Franciscans who have a rule written by St. Francis and are not allowed to deviate from it. The most we can do is to write statutes, into a constitution, that address whatever St. Francis does not mention, leaving the direction of our way of life untouched, because St. Francis and the Church commanded that it not be touched. That rule tells us how to govern ourselves, how to pray, how to relate to each other, our place in the Church, our mission, and our boundaries. It even tells us what to obey and how to obey. The Jesuits don’t have such a tool. The Church never allowed them to have one. The Church demanded that they define their way of life and mission as things evolved. The statutes that St. Ignatius left them are not as specific as the rules of Benedict, Augustine, and Francis.

Today, they are trying to figure out how to best follow the example of St. Ignatius in new situations. Whereas, a religious family like the Franciscans doesn’t have to think that way. We have a rule and then there are new situations in the world. If we can’t live the rule in a given situation, we simply do not get involved. It’s pretty simple. There is an intolerance, on the part of the many people, for a community that is trying very hard to figure out what to do in so many new situations. We don’t deal well with ambiguity. That’s where the Jesuits and many religious communities without a rule are at. Their goals and mission are ambiguous given the changes in the world and the Church. Because we don’t deal well with ambiguity, we attack those who are not giving us those neatly wrapped absolute answers that we want.

There is also the element of intimidation. The Jesuits are wonderful men and highly educated men. They don’t always speak the same language as the rest of mortals. Today, more laymen and women religious are better educated than before. Whereas male religious have always had the benefit of very good advanced theological and philosophical education, this was not the case for the laity and women religious. There is a competiveness that the latter groups bring to the table, almost like the youngster fresh out of school who has to prove himself.

It has been my observation that when they run up against the Jesuits or anyone who is that well educated, they feel intimidated. Instead of admitting that they don’t have a clue what a Jesuit is saying, they are quick to condemn. Unfortunately, many Jesuits are not simple talkers. In other words, they’re not St. Francis or St. Dominic who were very popular preachers. By popular I mean that they spoke in the common man’s language. This made the Dominicans and Franciscans loved by most people, because people understood what they were talking about, not so with many Jesuits.

If you observe carefully, male religious and diocesan clergy do not have the same problems with the Jesuits that some women religious and some laymen have. Why not? Because either they are academic peers or we don’t see a need to know as much as a Jesuit knows. We simply meet them at their own level and debate with them or we accept that they are smarter than we are and we move along. To this day, the relationship between the Jesuits and the male religious and diocesan clergy is a good one.

If you ask a Franciscan or a Dominican what he thinks about a Jesuit, the typical answer is, “Unless he’s committing a crime, I don’t think about what a Jesuit says, because it does not bother me and I’m not in competition with the Jesuits. They have their mission and I have mine.” The absence of intimidation makes for a harmonious and fraternal relationship where there is a lot of respect.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Passion and prejudice are dangerous emotions. When you combine abortion and Jesuits in one sentence, you trigger both. People are very passionate about abortion and few people are able to discuss it dispassionately, unless they have been deliberately taught to do so. On the other hand, there is a prejudice against the Jesuits.

Part of that prejudice is triggered by the behavior of some of some very vocal members of the Society who have said or done some things that raise eyebrows. Then there is intolerance. Like every large religious order, the Jesuits have been struggling to define their direction. They have a disadvantage that most religious orders do not have. St. Ignatius never wrote a rule for them. Not because he didn’t want to do so, but the Church would not allow it. The last rule that the Church approved was the Rule of St. Francis. After that, every religious community founded had to adopt one of the previously existing rules or have none at all and govern itself by statutes that the founder and the membership voted on and edited at will.
Five-hundred years later, this is not working for the Jesuits and the many communities that were founded without a rule. Those statutes have kept changing and as they change, so does the direction of the community.

While the Jesuits struggle to preserve the charism of St. Ignatius, they also struggle to figure out what that charism is supposed to look like today. Unlike Franciscans who have a rule written by St. Francis and are not allowed to deviate from it. The most we can do is to write statutes, into a constitution, that address whatever St. Francis does not mention, leaving the direction of our way of life untouched, because St. Francis and the Church commanded that it not be touched. That rule tells us how to govern ourselves, how to pray, how to relate to each other, our place in the Church, our mission, and our boundaries. It even tells us what to obey and how to obey. The Jesuits don’t have such a tool. The Church never allowed them to have one. The Church demanded that they define their way of life and mission as things evolved. The statutes that St. Ignatius left them are not as specific as the rules of Benedict, Augustine, and Francis.

Today, they are trying to figure out how to best follow the example of St. Ignatius in new situations. Whereas, a religious family like the Franciscans doesn’t have to think that way. We have a rule and then there are new situations in the world. If we can’t live the rule in a given situation, we simply do not get involved. It’s pretty simple. There is an intolerance, on the part of the many people, for a community that is trying very hard to figure out what to do in so many new situations. We don’t deal well with ambiguity. That’s where the Jesuits and many religious communities without a rule are at. Their goals and mission are ambiguous given the changes in the world and the Church. Because we don’t deal well with ambiguity, we attack those who are not giving us those neatly wrapped absolute answers that we want.

There is also the element of intimidation. The Jesuits are wonderful men and highly educated men. They don’t always speak the same language as the rest of mortals. Today, more laymen and women religious are better educated than before. Whereas male religious have always had the benefit of very good advanced theological and philosophical education, this was not the case for the laity and women religious. There is a competiveness that the latter groups bring to the table, almost like the youngster fresh out of school who has to prove himself.

It has been my observation that when they run up against the Jesuits or anyone who is that well educated, they feel intimidated. Instead of admitting that they don’t have a clue what a Jesuit is saying, they are quick to condemn. Unfortunately, many Jesuits are not simple talkers. In other words, they’re not St. Francis or St. Dominic who were very popular preachers. By popular I mean that they spoke in the common man’s language. This made the Dominicans and Franciscans loved by most people, because people understood what they were talking about, not so with many Jesuits.

If you observe carefully, male religious and diocesan clergy do not have the same problems with the Jesuits that some women religious and some laymen have. Why not? Because either they are academic peers or we don’t see a need to know as much as a Jesuit knows. We simply meet them at their own level and debate with them or we accept that they are smarter than we are and we move along. To this day, the relationship between the Jesuits and the male religious and diocesan clergy is a good one.

If you ask a Franciscan or a Dominican what he thinks about a Jesuit, the typical answer is, “Unless he’s committing a crime, I don’t think about what a Jesuit says, because it does not bother me and I’m not in competition with the Jesuits. They have their mission and I have mine.” The absence of intimidation makes for a harmonious and fraternal relationship where there is a lot of respect.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Very insightful. Thanks again!

Peace of Christ,

Jason
 
Wow! There seems to be quite a bit of viewing the Jesuits through rose colored glasses going on here!

Indeed, there are many faithful and wonderful Jesuits alive and well in our day and age, BUT, as Sister Terese pointed out, there are also MANY Jesuits who have fallen victim to indoctrination of the liberal political secular agenda.

I know MANY wonderful (mostly elderly) Jesuits…they are top-notch, truly excellent examples of what the Jesuits were meant to be.

Sadly, MANY Jesuits are not. A lot of Jesuits buy into and promote a radical agenda…one Jesuit is presenting at the “american catholic council” fiasco in Detroit (the same gathering which the archbishop reminds the clergy they are NOT to attend and the serious consequences that could happen if they decide to attend anyway).

You may be thinking, “But Sister! That is but one Jesuit among hundreds of thousands!” Do a simple examination of MOST Jesuit colleges/universities in the U.S. - while they do offer a superior academic education, the catholicity of the institutions are AWFUL and often completely contrary to Catholicism.

Since I cannot “double post”, please see my reply on this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=568779
…it reminds us not to make rash judgments about the integrity of entire groups…BUT, on the other hand, we must also face reality and not belong to the “mutual admiration society” where we gaze on the beauty of a small part and allow the disease to rot away the rest of the body.

Balance, friends.

God bless.

P.S. You may want to read up on the sufferings endured by Fr. Hardon, Fr. Fessio and other Jesuits at the hands of their brothers/superiors.

Let us pray for the Jesuits and for all Religious.
 
Sister, if by rose colored glasses you’re referring to my post, I believe that I said that there were three conditions that affect the Jesuits today and one of them is that they do have some problem children, as does any large family.

As to the bishop’s orders, whether we agree with the conference or not or with the Jesuit involved, the bishop’s statement does not apply to exempt religious orders of men. Bishops know this when they make these statements. They don’t demand obedience from exempt male religious. The authority is not in the hands of the bishop, but in the hands of the Ordinary. In the case of exempt orders, the Ordinary is always the Major Superior, not the bishop. The Council of Trent established this. Religious who belong to congregations and women religious have a different relationship with bishops, especially those of Diocesan Right. Exempt religious men lose the exemption or parts of it, if they are assigned to a diocesan ministry or if their founder or superior demand that they comply with the local bishop.

Someone asked Fr. Mitch Pacwa about the problems at many of the Jesuit run colleges and universities. He gave a very good explanation. It seems that the Jesuits no longer have the controlling voice over many of the universities and colleges that they founded. Because of funding issues and other financial constraints, they could no longer afford to run these schools independently. They retain ownership of the property, but the institution is governed by a Board of Trustees and incorporated as a secular 501(c)3 corporation with its own CEO. The Jesuits are a vote among many. They can’t even hire their own men to teach at their universities. The Boards do the hiring and firing. The Jesuits have to apply for employment as does any other secular professor. This is just one example of how little control the Major Superior has over these schools that they can’t even assign men to teach there. There are very few religious communities and diocese that still have full control over their colleges and universities.

Finally, we do not have a mutual admiration society. However, we do have boundaries. One has to understand the conciliar and historical difference between an order and a congregation. In an order of men, we do not have the freedom to opine on everything that happens in the world. We are governed by a local superior who is the canonical successor of the founder. We are also bound to a rule of non interference in the affairs of other orders. Therefore, issues such as what people say Fr. Hardon suffered at the hands of his superiors are an internal affair of an exempt religious order. The only person who has the authority to opine and intervene, if there is an injustice, is the Superior General of the Jesuits and the Holy Father. If those of us who belong to orders begin to publicly opine about this or that in another religious institute, especially an exempt one, we can get into serious trouble for interference.

We would be in serious violation of obedience and charity to step beyond the boundaries allowed by our superiors. The rules are very clear. If there is a crime or scandal, we report it to the proper authority. From that point forward, we treat the other person with great love, kindness and courtesy. The solution to the problem lies in the hands of those in authority, not our own. For this same reason, you will not see a Jesuit concerned about the Dominicans, Franciscans or Carmelites. These are exempt religious orders. Only their major superiors and the Holy See have a voice over them.

In my own tradition, St. Francis wrote into our rule that we must always look for the good in the other and at the sin us, because we are the lowest of sinners. Only when we acknowledge this about ourselves can we deal with others with great humility and as true minors.

I hope this helps clarify any misunderstanding.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Dear Brother,

I am not specifically referring to your posts; I am concerned about the posts which seem to encourage the original poster to “leap” before he “looks”! 😉

There are some folks who seem to be saying “The Jesuits are SUPER! GO FOR IT!” Working with young people, I know the need for balance…you cannot just say “this is excellent, run to it”…those who don’t know what they are leaping into may easily become disillusioned & give up on religious life (or even the Church!) all together. Trust me, coming from a smaller congregation and being a young and full of naiveté/innocence & “thrown to the wolves” in a common novitiate made up of “cousins” from all over the U.S. and the world was an eye opener…luckily, I knew my community very well and had been with them for many years, otherwise, I may have been totally scandalized by the novitiate goings-on, teachings, lack of teachings, inappropriate practices, etc. and may have thought that ALL “Sisters of ___” were like this; many women left…this was not what everyone had told them the good Sisters were like (and they were not rooted long enough with their own congregations to know the difference).

Some people might see this post and say, “How dare you! You’ve said inappropriate things happened in novitiate and are speaking poorly of a group of religious”, to which I’ll reply in advance - “No, not degrading any community, simply stating the facts.” You must know before leaping that religious are human, not ready made Saints; we draw our members from the same families and societies from which everyone comes…we have mentally ill folks, angry folks, mean and grumpy folks, AND beautiful, wonderful, holy, remarkable, indeed-SAINTLY women among us. One who does not know the reality and instead has some fantasy image may be sorely disappointed.

As I had mentioned earlier, check out the other thread; I’ll try to offer a brief summary here: "you should indeed be concerned about Religious who hold opinions contrary to Church teaching. However, don’t let one “loose canon” color your view of all of her Sisters in that particular community. If all in my community were judged on the words/deeds of a few, our collective name would be mud…that saddens me that all “Sisters of St. Polycarp” (or whatever community) are often seen as “bad” due to one or a few “bad apples” (the angry, mean, bitter, anti-Church type). On the other hand, it ANGERS me greatly that those “bad apples” don’t take the route of integrity and go some place in line with their radical views…it angers me that they degrade all of us by association.

EVEN IN communities that seem to be completely composed of radical feminists, earth worship, and anti-male-anti-Catholic types…I assure you that NOT all of the Sisters are on board with that agenda…they suffer daily, love & serve the Lord, and are the best Sisters that they can possibly be.

Even when you find that many “mainstream” communities may seem to have been ruined by worldly opinions and agendas, many, if not most, Sisters in that community are going about the business of doing the Lord’s work & remaining faithful to Him and to His Church.

SO, it seems to me that young people (or even older people!) considering religious vocations have two possible options: 1. Run as quickly as possible from the less-than-orthodox communities and pray, pray, & pray some more for all members…OR…2. Join them and work from within to restore sanity along with those who suffer on the inside…this may even be a quicker path to sanctity than option one (though very frustrating at times!).

God bless you! "

SO, anyway, I don’t know if a single thing I’ve said makes any sense or if seems to be just rambling, but, for what it is worth, I hope this clarifies my perspective.

God bless!
 
Sister has made many valuable points. I’m not going to address all of them, because they can stand on their own merit without my help. There are some thoughts that jump out at me and I’d like to piggy-back on them. The first thought is the fact that those who are discerning a vocation, either to the priesthood, religious life or both, should be very careful about the encouragement that is given on these fora, not just Catholic Answers, any of them. Our lay people are wonderful people and they want to encourage vocations. However, something that Sister says is also very true. Sometimes, we are too eager to encourage. I believe this comes from the desperation that lay people have for priests and sisters, especially. I don’t see that encouragement as much when a man is thinking about becoming a brother, a friar, a monk or when a woman is thinking about becoming a nun. My guess is that it’s because these religious have very little to do with parish life. They are either enclosed or they work among people who do not have access to internet and if they do, they wouldn’t be on CAF. Those are the people who would have a vested interest in promoting vocations to the mendicants, brotherhood, and itinerant sisterhoods such as the Missionaries of Charity.

The seeker must understand that the reader has a need and is hoping to help him or her move in the direction of the seminary or convent. Do not misunderstand, having a need is not a bad thing. Certainly, promoting vocations to fill that need is good. But as Sister says, one must be careful to encourage people to discern. If I’m understanding Sister correctly, that’s what she’s saying.

It’s not that the Jesuits are bad people and the Franciscans are saints, though we are :D, LOL. No . . . in all honesty, it’s not that way at all. It is a fact of life that religious communities, male and female, are made up of saints in the making. Most of us are very rough around the edge. If someone comes thinking that they’re going to find heaven on earth, they are going to be disappointed. On the other hand, negative reports is not a reason for not entering a community. One joins a community to follow a charism and live according to that charism. If Christ calls a person to follow the Ignatian charism, however that is defined today, that person has an obligation to respond with great charity. Part of that charity is accepting his brothers as they are, not as one wishes them to be.

The Franciscan family does not have superiors in the traditional sense, nor in the liberal sense either. Ours is a very strange arrangement. Francis defines the role of a superior as that of a mother, not a father. To be a superior in a house of Franciscan men is actually a very feminine role. The Guardian, as he is called at the local level and the Minister, which is the major superior, is to be the caregiver. It is his moral duty to make sure that his brothers have whatever they need to grow in holiness, to be physically well and to be well prepared for service, in that order of priority. He is to be a nurturer, not a leader. When he commands or corrects, it must always be for the well-being of the individual or the fraternity. With this concept in mind, Francis wrote a letter to one of the Ministers in which he gives the Minister a beautiful command that applies in any situation.

He tells him that when a brother sins, he (the Minister) must draw the brother close to him and love him more than he does any other brother and protect him from the world so that the brother can feal secure in confiding in the Minister his struggles and his pain. Francis reminds the Minister that everyone sins for a reason. He uses a very Augustinian concept. Augustine said that even sinners fall for the sake of the good. Unfortunately, that which the sinner perceives as the good for him, may not be beneficial at all, but the sinner does not know this. He believes that it is good for him. Francis encourages the Minister to comprehend this and to allow the brother to share with him what it is that he’s looking to achieve or to get away from. Then he says, that there will be times when even this gesture of kindness will not be sufficient. The brother will not open himself to the Minister and will persevere in his sin. In that case, the Minister is to ask the brother if he wants his compassion, assistance and forgiveness. If the brother rejects it, the Minister has a moral duty, under pain of grave sin, to grant it anyway, for he (the Minister) must recognize sin for what it is, but must also recognize the other person for what he is, objectively superior to yourself.

I remember being in novitiate when we were taught this concept that everyone is objectively superior to us and that if we are ever before someone who does something wrong, we must recognize the wrong, but also recognize that we have no right to point the finger, because we are capable of much worse. Just because we have not done so, does not mean that we will never do so. In modern English, “never say never” or “never say, that only happens to other people.” It’s very easy to fall into that trap.
 
We must help to promote vocations to whatever state in life God calls a person, but always remembering that the people with whom you’re going to live are very human. As I like to say, they are saints in the making and we’re all at different stages of development. Part of one’s discernment must be to ascertain whether one can live with imperfect human beings, not as one who is above, but as one who is below those who are imperfect. In other words, part of the discernment must be to ask a very important question. “Am I willing to try to see these men or women for their gifts, not their weaknesses and learn from them rather than judge them?” If that is something that one cannot do, then one is not called to religious life. You may make a good diocesan priest, because they don’t have to live in community. However, even they have to live and work in close proximity to each other. Granted, they can live in the same house and never speak to each other for 20 years. One must consider whether one is willing to live with human limitations, beginning with one’s own.

I know that I’m still struggling to live with myself, never mind my brothers. They all have one foot in heaven compared to me. I’m like the Communist movement. I take two steps forward and one step backward. I sometimes sit there and wonder if there will ever be a resting place where the rule comes easily, obedience comes without questioning, charity is spontaneous, detachment comes without ever looking back, and chastity is just a simple joy of being with one’s brothers. Then I way up and tell myself, “Welcome to reality. Keep struggling.”:yup:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I apologize if some of our posts seemed to say “go leap (without thinking)”. I’m sure that kind of action won’t work when joining the Society. For one, a person must go to a pre-novitiate to discern and “test the waters” so to speak before entering the novitiate. There the question of Bro JR “Am I willing to try to see these men for their gifts, not their weaknesses and learn from them rather than judge them?” is asked.

I cannot help seeing the Jesuits with rose-tinted glasses because of what I experienced with them. They taught me to be thinker. They taught me to have faith and reason. They taught me how to pray. They showed me the beauty of the Eucharist. They gave me the opportunity to go to the slums (or ghettos if you will) and be with my less fortunate younger brothers and sisters, eat and play with them, and teach them about our faith (Yes. I went to these areas to be a [street] catechist). Their apostolate enabled me to go to our country’s primary correctional facility and interact with inmates, and share with hopes and pains. They taught me to discern and see how grave a sin is abortion. I won’t list everything here. They took off my sun glasses and rose-tinted spectacles to see the reality around me.

While I know that there are problematic members of the Society, and I have no qualms with that. All families have that. The Catholic family has that. The Society knows this. One of their mottos, “Sinners yet called” actually led me to see them through rose-tinted glasses.
 
I apologize if some of our posts seemed to say “go leap (without thinking)”. I’m sure that kind of action won’t work when joining the Society. For one, a person must go to a pre-novitiate to discern and “test the waters” so to speak before entering the novitiate. There the question of Bro JR “Am I willing to try to see these men for their gifts, not their weaknesses and learn from them rather than judge them?” is asked.

I cannot help seeing the Jesuits with rose-tinted glasses because of what I experienced with them. They taught me to be thinker. They taught me to have faith and reason. They taught me how to pray. They showed me the beauty of the Eucharist. They gave me the opportunity to go to the slums (or ghettos if you will) and be with my less fortunate younger brothers and sisters, eat and play with them, and teach them about our faith (Yes. I went to these areas to be a [street] catechist). Their apostolate enabled me to go to our country’s primary correctional facility and interact with inmates, and share with hopes and pains. They taught me to discern and see how grave a sin is abortion. I won’t list everything here. They took off my sun glasses and rose-tinted spectacles to see the reality around me.

While I know that there are problematic members of the Society, and I have no qualms with that. All families have that. The Catholic family has that. The Society knows this. One of their mottos, “Sinners yet called” actually led me to see them through rose-tinted glasses.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for the Society of Jesus. I worked with them in the missions of South America. They were courageous, generous, fraternal and welcoming. When six of us arrived at the mission in the Amazon, without a house to live and unable to speak Quichua, the Jebbies, as we call them, put us up for five months and did not ask us for a single penny. We felt so badly that we ended up doing their laundry, cooking and cleaning to pay them back. They, in turn, gave us classes in the local language and introduced us to the local culture. They were no better off than we were, at least we got $500.00 per month from home. That was for the six of us. We had to pay our way and rent a house with that. The Jebbies were great. When we finally opened up our pregnancy center, we had no priest. One of them came to the center to celebrate mass for us every other day. That was a one hour drive for them.

Do they have problem children? Yes. Given that they are over 500 years old and have 18,000 men, I would be surprised if they didn’t. The difference between them and the other large religious families is that they can’t absorb them as well as the rest of us can. I think that part of that is that they are not as monastic as are the friars. In a fiary or a priory the Prior or the Guardian can confine you to the house. He has that kind of authority. The Jesuits are not friars or monks. They are Clerks Regular. Clerks don’t have the same conventual structure and their superiors don’t have the same authority. Clerks Regular are the counterpart to congregations of sisters, where there is more self-regulation. Friars are really the active counterparts of monks. We are apostolic, but our government is monastic. Therefore, we have systems that the Clerks and the congregations do not have. Everything in life has its pros and cons.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The problem is not as black and white as the press and the forums are making it. The real problem is that the Jesuit Provincial is convinced that the organization is not culpable of what it is accused of and the bishop says they are. People are making it look as if the Jesuit Pronvincial is pro-abortion, which is not the case.

Because the bishop and the Provincial are both Ordinaries of equal rank…
Thank you Brother JR for a well thought out post, including others I haven’t quoted here. I was unaware of the fact of the Society losing control of their universities to such an extent. I will certainly pray that the concerned Ordinaries come to God’s solution.
 
I believe that what happened to them is the same that is happening to many other religious communities that run colleges and universities. These schools began as small colleges, most of them for immigrants. They were your garden variety Liberal Arts Colleges.

With the growth of science and technology the needs of the students changed. These kids needed to get ready to enter a world that is very technological and competative. This means that curriculums had to change. There is always going to be room in this world for the history, English, math, and philosophy majors. But they’re not going to be in great demand, especially in the USA where we depend so much on a technology based economy.

To deliver these programs, schools needed money and qualified professors. Most of us, religious, were not qualified to teach these subjects. I know, because I was a college professor and dean. My background is in Theology and Psychology. I have a BS in math and can probably teach a few low level math courses. Theology, philosophy and psych I can teach with my eyes closed; but the number of kids who need those courses is insignficant. When I was teaching, my classes were required courses. They were not the courses that students elected, because they did not fit into their career plans.

Different religious communities did different things in order to meet the academic demands of the students and their parents. Then you had more lay professors coming on board. These folks demanded high salaries and benefits. Besides that, they also demanded a certain degree of academic freedom. All of this added up to turning the schools over to boards of professional educators and community leaders.

At first, these boards were in sync with the religious communities that founded these schools. After a while, there were turn overs and those new folks were not in sync with the mission of the religious communities.

I know that some religious communities have kept control over their schools. To do so they have made some sacrifices. I don’t think they have been so bad either. I know that most Franciscan schools are still under the control of the friars of the different Franciscan branches. The TOR Franciscans run Franciscan University and St. Francis University. The OFM Franciscans run St. Bonaventure University. Those friars are very much in charge. However, those universities are never going to compete against Notre Dame, Duke, Yale, Pinceton, U. of VA, Penn State and others. As long as the friars are in charge, they run on limited budgets. That’s the limitation. The strength is that they are very Catholic and they offer a classical education. Franciscans are not the only religious who still run their colleges. I’m just giving them as an example, because I know them better.

There are pluses and minuses to everything in life. What can we say? I have always believed that God has a plan. I try not to worry too much. Each night I go to bed and I simply repeat the prayer of the good thief, “Remember me.” Then I look over at the Blessed Mother in my cell and say another simple prayer, “Haver mercy on my soul and pray for me.” God will figure out the rest and has he does, he will show us what to do, if we pay attention.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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