Are The Jesuits a Viable Option for a Faithful Catholic???

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JR’s posts are always worth reading.

You, the OP, describe yourself as ‘fanatically loyal’. If you are indeed ‘fanatically loyal’ then I don’t think the Jesuits are for you. Jesuits are taught to think and to think hard and long, and not to be ‘fanatically loyal’ to anything, including the pope. If they are loyal to the pope, it is for a good reason.

Look elsewhere. FSSP?
 
Antonius_Lupus said:
Dear brethren,

After being led to the understanding that Diocesan priesthood is probably not my vocation, I have tentatively started looking at religious priestly orders.

One of the Orders I am looking at is the Society of Jesus. I was raised Baptist and came home to Rome as a teenager. During that time I became fascinated by Jesuit history. All my studies of their order bespoke of a group of priests dedicated to the Pope of Rome and to the advancement of Catholic Orthodoxy.

Yet, my own spiritual director (though supportive of my considerations) has remarked that if I were to become a Jesuit, then I would be an anomaly. This is because I am fanatically loyal to the Magisterium. I consider my faith to be whatever Rome says it is. I am neither a traditionalist nor a progressive (and I intend to oppose both). I consider myself simply an orthodox Catholic.

Rumor has it that the Society of Jesus has long abandoned (in practice anyway) the strict Orthodoxy and obedience of the past and have now become a voice of dissent and heterodoxy. Tragic as that is in-and-of-itself, it’s really tragic for me because much of the original charism of the Order really seems to fit me well.

Anyway, I wanted to get some opinions about the Jesuits and Jesuit vocations. The main thing I am wondering is whether it is possible to be a Jesuit in good standing while at the same time being completely faithful to Catholic Orthodoxy and the Magisterium. It’s sad that I feel I need to ask that question, but…yeah.

So, any thoughts?
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There are certainly numerous examples of individual jesuits, even in an official capacity, putting forth opinions contrary to the teachings of the church. Aside from the rather infamous ‘episode’ of Liberation Theology there is also a rather worrying interpretation of ecumenicism amongst some. The writer of the website of the Jesuit province of Great Britain apparently no longer believes that the point of talking to other faiths is to convert them. (You can view the page on that here ) How many Jesuits believe this or how widespread this heterodoxy is I cannot say, but it is certainly troubling.

Before anyone accuses me of ‘having something against them’, I should point out that I was brought into the Catholic faith and catechised by Jesuits and baptised, confirmed and received first communion at a church served by the Jesuits. I have nothing but the upmost respect for their genuine traditions but I cannot help thinking that many of them, even those in authority, have strayed far from the intentions of their founder and possibly even the teaching of the church.
 
You can be an orthodox Jesuit. I heard that the new generation of Jesuits is becoming more orthodox than the previous one. If you want to become a Jesuit, become one. Personally, they are my favorite order.
 
I’m not a Jesuit, so I can’t speak from experience. My feeling is that the problem that they may have had with renewal may be caused by many factors that are not always so visible.

We live in a very confused world and in very confusing times. Of course you get your vocations from the world around you. They don’t just pop up. Many men will come in with confusion.

While they are a fraternity, St. Ignatius deliberately avoided giving them the structure that friars and monks had. They were the last religious order to be founded. They were rather strange even then. They were an order, but they did not have to live as an order. They were an order, because they made solemn vows. However, they did not have the common life that other orders have. Many of them traveled and lived alone for years at a time. Their only contact with other Jesuits was through mail. It’s very hard to have the close oversight by a superior, if you don’t have that close community life. It must be even harder to have on-going formation.

They never had a rule of life. For example, other founders did not write a rule for their religious, but they adopted one of the existing rules. The Norbertines and the Dominicans live by the Rule of St. Augustine. The Cistercians, Camaldolese and Trappists live by the Rule of St. Benedict. Both of the Carmelite orders live by the Rule of St. Albert. All Franciscans live by one of the four rules written by St. Francis. St. Ignatius gave the Society a set of statutes; but it was clear from the beginning that these statutes were not as binding as a rule was. Ignatius did this deliberately. This allowed the Jesuits to revise their statutes according to the times. You can’t do that with a rule. A rule is what it is. You can’t change it. The only thing that you can do is to write a constitution. The purpose of a constitution is to explain what the rule means and to give you statutes and regulations on matters that are not addressed in the rule. Whatever is in the rule cannot be changed. If St. Benedict said that monks have to walk on water, then monks have to walk on water. That’s that.

The Jesuits never had such a legal document. Ignatius never foresaw that his militia was going to become an international community of almost 20,000. My belief is that the further that you get from the founder and the original charism, the easier it is to become derailed. Ignatius intended for them to fly by the seat of their pants. They were soldiers and soldiers do that. However, I can’t see how it can be easy to keep everyone on the same sheet of music. I wouldn’t want to be the Superior General of the SJ.

I admire the fact that despite the problems, they continue to try. They don’t give up. They just had a general chapter and the Holy Father publicly called them to task. The capitulars responded with great affection and humility. They have many problem children, but they continue to try to be better religious, better priests and better Jesuits. We don’t always get it right all the time, but the important part is to keep trying. I don’t think that there is ever a resting place where everything happens naturally and easily.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I admire the fact that despite the problems, they continue to try. They don’t give up. They just had a general chapter and the Holy Father publicly called them to task. The capitulars responded with great affection and humility.
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That is quite incredible to me. It must have been difficult for the Holy Father to do that and certainly for them to hear it. It shows much of their character and love for God and Church for them to handle it as you described.

Man, I have a long way to go…
 
jwinch2 said:
That is quite incredible to me. It must have been difficult for the Holy Father to do that and certainly for them to hear it. It shows much of their character and love for God and Church for them to handle it as you described.

Man, I have a long way to go…
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They actually wrote a public response to the Holy Father. It was published on the internet. I’m talking about less than a year.

If I can find it, I’ll post the link. I don’t recall what it was called.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
In respect of the Jesuits, the academic requirements to become one are daunting I think.
 
JReducation said:
They actually wrote a public response to the Holy Father. It was published on the internet. I’m talking about less than a year.

If I can find it, I’ll post the link. I don’t recall what it was called.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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That would be interesting to read for sure.

Peace,
 
I found it. Before you go to the link, I apologize. I was wrong on those dates. One of my brothers has corrected me. The events took place in 2008. The document was finally released in 2010.

With Renewed Vigor and Zeal

It’s well written . . . very Jesuit 😃

No wonder it took almost two years to translate into English. :eek:

The Dominican would respond with, “We will obey. Now let’s analyze it to make sure we understand.”

The Franciscan would respond with, “How high do you want us to jump?” After the fact they will ask, “He did say jump, right?”

The Jesuits need 54 pages to say “Yes Sir”. 😉

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I found it. Before you go to the link, I apologize. I was wrong on those dates. One of my brothers has corrected me. The events took place in 2008. The document was finally released in 2010.

With Renewed Vigor and Zeal

It’s well written . . . very Jesuit 😃

No wonder it took almost two years to translate into English. :eek:

The Dominican would respond with, “We will obey. Now let’s analyze it to make sure we understand.”

The Franciscan would respond with, “How high do you want us to jump?” After the fact they will ask, “He did say jump, right?”

The Jesuits need 54 pages to say “Yes Sir”. 😉

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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😃

Thanks for that Brother! I look forward to reading it.
 
If I read this a couple of years before I got married, I’d probably be knocking on the Jesuit pre-novitiate door again. 😃
 
JReducation said:
I found it. Before you go to the link, I apologize. I was wrong on those dates. One of my brothers has corrected me. The events took place in 2008. The document was finally released in 2010.

With Renewed Vigor and Zeal

It’s well written . . . very Jesuit 😃

No wonder it took almost two years to translate into English. :eek:

The Dominican would respond with, “We will obey. Now let’s analyze it to make sure we understand.”

The Franciscan would respond with, “How high do you want us to jump?” After the fact they will ask, “He did say jump, right?”

The Jesuits need 54 pages to say “Yes Sir”. 😉

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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I did read the article. You are correct, it is extremely well written. I’m an academic myself but the style of writing is so different from what I do (biological sciences) that I have force myself to slow down and re-read from time to time.

Thanks again for posting that link. It was a very interesting read…
 
gonzagabulletin.com/homosexuality-catholicism-1.2163183?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=The_Bulletin_2&utm_campaign=The_Bulletin_2_2011414146#.TnNxO81foYY

I saw this article in a link from RealCatholicTV. Unfortunately, this article contains such a mis-representation of Catholic doctrine that even I can spot it without effort. Assuming the article quoted people accurately, it is highly concerning.

Frankly, it is things like this which lead to people asking the types of questions that spawned this thread to begin with. From the article discussed above, it would seem that the SJ has gone a long way towards righting the ship, but when you see stuff like this, it becomes unfortunately obvious that there is a bit further to go.
 
Here’s a link to a Wiki abstract about Jesuit formation. The academic requirements alone are downright scary!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_formation

Obviously, being female, I’m certainly not a candidate for this. But I am a product of Jesuit education–BFA from Fordham, MA from Fordham, and now BS from Canisius College. A good number of my professors were Jesuits, and I can tell you this much, they’re great instructors, and certainly expect academic excellence. That translated into this for me–if you expect to do well GPA wise, and are working (at the time of my fine arts degrees I was a ballet dancer with NY City Ballet,) best to take only one course per semester from a Jesuit, because it will be demanding! No “padding a paper” with these guys, as I learned firsthand as a freshman!:eek: That one “padded paper” came back to me with so much red ink on it that it looked like someone had bled on it.

From what I read in the Wiki link, you can expect to have study equivalent to at least two baccalaureates and at least two advanced degrees, in addition to formation in the order.

For myself, I’m very happy that I had a Jesuit education. They taught me critical thinking. I recently joined a Jesuit-run parish here and am doing the Spiritual Exercises in the 19th Annotation, and have a Jesuit as a spiritual director. I haven’t encountered anything during the course of the Exercises (I’m in the second week) that would run contrary to any of the teachings of the Magisterium, and have been driven by them to not only study Scripture, but reflect on it and get just about everything I can out of the readings. I believe I have never been closer to the Lord than I am now, and I have the Exercises under the direction of a very sensible, very traditional, and very holy priest to thank for that.

It doesn’t surprise me in the least that the order catches the flak that it does, though: Historically, they’re intrepid, on the fronts of exploration (and evangelization) of the world, as well as on the fronts of knowledge and study. When humans colonize Mars, there will probably be a Jesuit on one of the first spacecraft there. You take a large group of men pushing the envelope in such a way, every now and then there’s bound to be someone who goes through the envelope. Remember, their motto is, “Magis,” meaning “more and more.” That’s one of their charisms, and there is still a need for it. The Holy Spirit wouldn’t allow it to continue to exist if there wasn’t. Personally, I wish that people who aren’t called to that sort of charism would just stop picking on them.
 
odile53 said:
Here’s a link to a Wiki abstract about Jesuit formation. The academic requirements alone are downright scary!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_formation
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As I have said before Wikipedia is not a good source to use for anything, especially religious things.

Just a quick look at the article you link to shows errors. The sequence of formation is wrong. The article has a Jesuit being ordained before making solemn (final) vows.

Canonically to be ordained a religious must be in final vows.
 
ByzCath said:
Just a quick look at the article you link to shows errors. The sequence of formation is wrong. The article has a Jesuit being ordained before making solemn (final) vows.
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Jesuits ARE ordained before making their final vows.

After a two-year novitiate Jesuits make perpetual vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience more info]. They continue with their first studies, regency (ministry), and theological studies. Next comes ordination to the diaconate then priesthood. Then comes tertianship (more formation including a second 30-day retreat), and finally final vows more info].

Unlike many (most?) religious, they never make temporary vows. So in that sense they DO make lifetime vows before being ordained. But they also make a final set of vows after perhaps 10 years as a Jesuit.
 
Everyone is confusing the profession of vows.

Every member of the Society of Jesus makes temporary vows and then perpetual vows. These are simple vows, like those of sisters and religious who belong to congregations, but they are perpetual.

A Jesuit may be ordained a deacon and a priest after perpetual profession. Canon Law requires that a religious must have completed his religious formation before ordination, if he’s to be a cleric.

Now . . . the Society has additional priestly formation after ordination, not religious formation. Religious formation is finished when they make perpetual vows. They continue with this formation after ordination. At the end of this formation they make solemn vows.

In other words, they renew their profession of vows, but this time, it is elevated to the status of solemn vows.

The confusion comes in because, aside from the Jesuits, the only other religious who have the privilege to make solemn vows are monks and friars. Everyone else makes simple vows.

In our orders, Carmelites, Franciscans, Dominicans, Benedictines, Cistercians, etc. we make both perpetual and solemn profession in one rite of profession. The Jesuits divide it into three.

The first time around, they make simple temporary vows, just like every other religious.

The second time around, they make simple perpetual vows, just like Clerks regular and sisters who belong to congregations.

The third time around is only for priests, they make solemn vows. Jesuits have lay brothers. The lay brothers never make solemn vows. St. Ignatius deemed solemn vows so sacred that he did not trust any religiuos who was not a priest with these vows.

This is why Brother David was confused. This whole idea of separating perpetual vows from solemn vows and the whole idea of lay brothers is foreign to Carmelites, Franciscans, Benedictines, Cistercians and Trappists. We have monks and friars. Some are priests and some are not. But everyone makes solemn vows at the time of perpetual profession. We have two profession ceremonies, not three.

It should also be pointed out that not every Jesuit priest is allowed to make solemn vows. If the superior feels that the sacredness of solemn vows is beyond the individual, he can deny him permission to renew his perpetual vows in a solemn profession.

Among friars and monks, if you’re not capable of living solemn vows, you are asked to leave. No one can remain in simple perpetual vows.

The Jesuits combine the life of an order and the life of a congregation into one community. What do I mean? Only members of religious orders can make solemn vows. Members of religious congregations may never make solemn vows. The Church reserves solemn vows for a select few. Outside of religious orders, the only other Catholics that make solemn vows are spouses. The vows of marriage are solemn vows.

Stop and think of how serious the marriage vows are. That’s how serious the solemn vows of friars, monks and some Jesuits are.

This point of solemn vows almost voids the question of this thread. If th Apostolic See beleived that the Jesuits aer not a viable option for Catholic men, it would strip them of the privilege of solemn vows. Most religious are not allowed to make them, yet many Jesuits are allowed. The Church does not take this lightly. It’s very hard to get out of solemn vows. Only a pope can dispense from this obligation and only under very serious circumstances.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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