Are The Jesuits a Viable Option for a Faithful Catholic???

[Ancient1]

The Jesuits were once possibly the greatest order in the Church, and certainly the most intellectual with the best priestly formation. No longer. I have been intimately involved with Jesuits for many years. They are almost radicals. 90 percent of them are misguided. Just look at “America” magazine, utter drivel and leftist nonsense.

A Jesuit novice nowadays (and this is not restricted only to THIS order) is not taught properly, is not given correct moral guidance, learns a flippant, cynical and critical attitude toward the Pope and the Magisterium. This is why their vocations are dropping, dropping, dropping.

Yes we can find a handful of “good” loyal Jesuits today:

Fr. Lombardi, SJ (the Holy Father’s spokesman)
Francis Cardinal George (Archbishop of Chicago, brilliant man)
Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ (scholar and EWTN)
Fr. Gerard Steckler, SJ (scholar and professor)
Fr. Kenneth Baker, SJ (Homiletic and Pastoral Review)
Fr. James Schall, SJ (Georgetown)
Fr. Robert Spitzer, SJ (former Gonzaga president, forced to resign because
he was “too orthodox”)

…and many more. I doubt you could list 100 that match the ideal we think of as a Jesuit.

Notice most are elderly. After Vatican II the Jesuits went downhill, I won’t go into all details, others have spoken. Almost any Jesuit under 70 is nothing more than the typical progressive confused relativistic Catholic. They love Obama.

This problem is from the VERY TOP of the order and permeates it. It’s not an enclave of odd priests here and there, but the seemingly permanent direction. They have politicized religion and they do not understand the essence of Catholicism. Sure, good intentions and all that, but they’re lost.

You being a Baptist and not growing up around them, I can see you would be impressed by the old stories, famous priests like Fr. Hardon, SJ, and magnificent history. But those days are gone. The Jesuits were suppressed once in history.

Rumor is a Suppression Order was waiting for the signature of Pope John Paul I (the FIRST, before JP2) and that his demise after only 1 month as the Vicar of Christ was due to - shall we say - a deliberate action to prevent his signing that document. This is pure rumor, but where there’s smoke there is fire. Even if the Pope simply died in his sleep from heart trouble, as is the official line, it’s interesting that plenty of people make a connection to the narrow escape of the Jesuits.

Ultimately a vocation is a very personal choice. Talk to Jesuits is my advice, ask their opinions about Church teachings or traditions that are dear to you. Homosexuality is a big issue now, I must tell you, but again that is true throughout the priesthood. Seek out their retirement homes and ask if you may visit and talk with some. Go to Jesuit colleges or look at their websites and notice the frequent but subtle undermining of Truth. If you’re close enough, ask if you may sit in a theology or morality class in a Jesuit college. Don’t just accept the person they shove on you as a “vocations director”.

 

[JReducation]

The Jesuits were once possibly the greatest order in the Church, and certainly the most intellectual with the best priestly formation. No longer. I have been intimately involved with Jesuits for many years. They are almost radicals. 90 percent of them are misguided. Just look at “America” magazine, utter drivel and leftist nonsense.

A Jesuit novice nowadays (and this is not restricted only to THIS order) is not taught properly, is not given correct moral guidance, learns a flippant, cynical and critical attitude toward the Pope and the Magisterium. This is why their vocations are dropping, dropping, dropping.

Yes we can find a handful of “good” loyal Jesuits today:

Fr. Lombardi, SJ (the Holy Father’s spokesman)
Francis Cardinal George (Archbishop of Chicago, brilliant man)
Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ (scholar and EWTN)
Fr. Gerard Steckler, SJ (scholar and professor)
Fr. Kenneth Baker, SJ (Homiletic and Pastoral Review)
Fr. James Schall, SJ (Georgetown)
Fr. Robert Spitzer, SJ (former Gonzaga president, forced to resign because
he was “too orthodox”)

…and many more. I doubt you could list 100 that match the ideal we think of as a Jesuit.

Notice most are elderly. After Vatican II the Jesuits went downhill, I won’t go into all details, others have spoken. Almost any Jesuit under 70 is nothing more than the typical progressive confused relativistic Catholic. They love Obama.

This problem is from the VERY TOP of the order and permeates it. It’s not an enclave of odd priests here and there, but the seemingly permanent direction. They have politicized religion and they do not understand the essence of Catholicism. Sure, good intentions and all that, but they’re lost.

You being a Baptist and not growing up around them, I can see you would be impressed by the old stories, famous priests like Fr. Hardon, SJ, and magnificent history. But those days are gone. The Jesuits were suppressed once in history.

Rumor is a Suppression Order was waiting for the signature of Pope John Paul I (the FIRST, before JP2) and that his demise after only 1 month as the Vicar of Christ was due to - shall we say - a deliberate action to prevent his signing that document. This is pure rumor, but where there’s smoke there is fire. Even if the Pope simply died in his sleep from heart trouble, as is the official line, it’s interesting that plenty of people make a connection to the narrow escape of the Jesuits.

Ultimately a vocation is a very personal choice. Talk to Jesuits is my advice, ask their opinions about Church teachings or traditions that are dear to you. Homosexuality is a big issue now, I must tell you, but again that is true throughout the priesthood. Seek out their retirement homes and ask if you may visit and talk with some. Go to Jesuit colleges or look at their websites and notice the frequent but subtle undermining of Truth. If you’re close enough, ask if you may sit in a theology or morality class in a Jesuit college. Don’t just accept the person they shove on you as a “vocations director”.

First, you’re painting with a rather broad brush.

Second, Cardinal George is an Oblate, not a Jesuit.

Third, you’re making some very serious insinuations in your last paragraph.

Finally, at the last General Congress of the Jesuits, the Holy Father sent them a message of what he wanted to see coming from them and they complied. Pope Benedict replied that he was pleased.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Ancient1]

In respect of the Jesuits, the academic requirements to become one are daunting I think.

Certainly they were the intellectuals of the priesthood. But in their desperation for recruits, and their mixing of religion with popular culture, their standards have not remained as high. 10 years preparation, including the completion of a PhD, was fairly normal in the old days. Not sure it was “required” but certainly with the seminary and serious study, it took a decade to ordination. Most orders are shorter. I’m not sure what the Jebbies require now, but certainly it is not “daunting.” The seminarians I’ve met could not handle anything daunting, they are not the “cream of the crop” of young Catholic men. None of the younger priests I’ve met have PhD’s. And if they do, God help us what sort of program it was, liberation theology, ethnic studies, justice for the masses or some sort of bilge is the stuff they like.

 

[Ancient1]

First, you’re painting with a rather broad brush.

Second, Cardinal George is an Oblate, not a Jesuit.

Third, you’re making some very serious insinuations in your last paragraph.

Finally, at the last General Congress of the Jesuits, the Holy Father sent them a message of what he wanted to see coming from them and they complied. Pope Benedict replied that he was pleased.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Apologies on Cardinal George, I had a senior moment.

NOTE: I made no insinuations, and never make any insinuations. I reported what is a well-known rumor, identified it as a rumor, and reiterated that it was “pure rumor”. I hammered that home pretty fairly. People here are smart enough to do their own research and make their own conclusions. I did not imply either way, just stated what many have discussed openly for years.

A broad brush is the only kind to paint with in this situation, if you are capable of understanding me…? You accuse me of insinuations, and then demand specifics? Which do you want, anyway? Everything I say is true, whether “broad” or not in your particular opinion. No, no. I am not telling ALL I know or I’d be banned from this website in five minutes.

 

[chevalier]

At least the Polish province does not consider it fit to restrain certain priests from pastorally expressing permission for the use of contraceptives, directly or indirectly.

 

[JReducation]

Apologies on Cardinal George, I had a senior moment.

NOTE: I made no insinuations, and never make any insinuations. I reported what is a well-known rumor, identified it as a rumor, and reiterated that it was “pure rumor”. I hammered that home pretty fairly. People here are smart enough to do their own research and make their own conclusions. I did not imply either way, just stated what many have discussed openly for years.

Rumors are usually slanderous and should not be repeated for that very reason. They hurt many people and help no one.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Ancient1]

While you people out there in the secular Catholic world have these wonderful discussions, Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits are the closest of allies and have a mutual admiration society between us.

Look back at American History, north and south. Who were the missionaries that came together? Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits.

Who fought with each other in the Inquisition?

Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits

Who founded the great pontifical universities of Europe?

Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits

To whom did the Council of Trent grant the privilege of exemption, placing them beyond the reach of bishops and laity?

Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits.

It’s like the three Muskateers.

1. 
   *]The Jesuits upset the apple cart.
   
   *]The Dominicans stand it up again.
   
   *]The Franciscans put the apples back in the cart.
   
   Then they all have a good laugh and a beer.
   
   Fraternally,
   
   Br. JR, OSF

1. 
   So true, very good! But one point: the Franciscans and Dominicans have beer. The Jesuits have martinis.

 

[Ancient1]

Rumors are usually slanderous and should not be repeated for that very reason. They hurt many people and help no one.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Yes, Brother, what you say is true. That was never my intention, I had more in mind the pursuit of truth. After all a young man is discerning a vocation, and asked just for this, what is the real scoop on the Jesuits. This is serious, not a gossip session to me. But I appreciate your apparent need to play the role of my spiritual director.

 

[Splagchnizomai]

So true, very good! But one point: the Franciscans and Dominicans have beer. The Jesuits have martinis.

And Jesuits are smart enough to know that a vodka martini is a heresy.

 

[odile53]

Yes, you may, and yes, I have.

I went to a retreat at a Jesuit center once. I left at lunchtime Saturday. I was disgusted.

Saturday morning was a prayer service, not a Mass. But it was in the chapel. There was no mention of Jesus, it was “Creator” and “Higher Power.” They did announce that Mass would be Saturday evening…in the conference center, not the chapel.

It was quite difficult to tell if anyone on the staff was a priest or a gardener - not a single Roman collar to be seen anywhere. They were, however, introduced as “Father so-and-so” later, so it appears there were a few priests after all.

The use of the words “Creator” and “Higher Power” sound as if the retreat you attended was one given for Twelfth Step groups using an Ignatian spirituality format as the basis for the retreat. If that was the case, it was most likely attended by people of many different faiths. As a member of AlAnon (for family and friends of alcoholics) I attended one such retreat, and it was excellent in terms of having us identify our own brokenness, need for redemption and salvation, and strategies for improving our faith but in no wise was it a retreat designed exclusively for Roman Catholics. Mass was available and offered on both Saturday night and Sunday morning, all were welcome to attend but it was made clear that only Catholics were permitted to receive communion. The two Jesuits who directed this retreat were wonderful in facilitating discussion, thought, and prayer tailored for the needs of the retreatants in dealing with the rather specialized circumstances of their lives (living with an alcoholic.) We were shown how to pray the Examen, how to use the movements of our spirits in discerning the direction that God was leading, how to make good, healthy, and spiritually solid decisions and take action. That was great for a group of people who by default had been living their lives around the whims of active alcoholics.

However, I can understand where someone expecting a more traditional silent retreat would have been disconcerted by this sort of presentation (which, again, was open to people of all faiths who happened to have specialized life circumstances.) It definitely was not the former. Is it possible that this was the type of retreat where you found yourself that weekend?

I subsequently (several years later) undertook the Spiritual Exercises on an eight day retreat. This was definitely much more traditionally Catholic in its format. Mass was daily, you met with your assigned spiritual director daily, plenty of time (and assignment) of lectio divina and meditation with specific subjects outlined, again the Examen and discernment of spirits (nice that I already had experience doing this,) and the opportunity (and encouragement) to do a general confession. The only thing that wasn’t there was Latin. It was very Christ-centered, in fact, the meditations and reading assignments were on the Gospels.

I really can’t imagine how someone expecting a traditional retreat would have been disappointed in this format.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Yes, Brother, what you say is true. That was never my intention, I had more in mind the pursuit of truth. After all a young man is discerning a vocation, and asked just for this, what is the real scoop on the Jesuits. This is serious, not a gossip session to me.

If its serious and not a gossip session why would you post a ridiculous unsubstantiated “tin foil hat” type slanderous rumor?
Why not just refer anyone with questions about the Jesuits to Jack Chick publications? That’s the style of “rumor” that you posted.

But I appreciate your apparent need to play the role of my spiritual director.

Being rude to Br. is not the answer…

 

[LovePatience]

From the Virgin Mary at Fatima.

“Let us strive to avoid the sin of impurity, and we must employ every means in our grasp to achieve this. It is an offence to God and that should be enough for us to want to avoid it, and all the more so in that, of all the vices which the powers of darkness have incited in the world of sin, it is the most shameful and the most repugnant! The most shameful but not the most serious.

“Acts of injustice and a lack of charity towards the poor, widows and orphans, the ignorant and the powerless, are a thousand times more serious and offensive in God’s eyes, and yet people pay these no attention, whereas they should give them far more attention for they are often the beginning and the cause of the disorientation of a great many souls, leading them to plunge into the mire! How many times do those who stand up proudly against impurity, peacefully sleep the sleep of the unjust, laying their heads on the purse of Judas!!!

One question about the Jesuits. Is there anyone who has reason to criticize their charity towards the poor, widows, orphans, ignorant, and powerless? If so, why?

I ask this question directly because they seem like an attractive order due to intellectualism and concern for social justice. However, some social justice proponents are distinguishable more by their softer language than by their objective increase in charity. Does anyone have any experience or know of others with experience or good solid facts who thinks that the Jesuits have major flaws in this area?

 

[LovePatience]

The use of the words “Creator” and “Higher Power” sound as if the retreat you attended was one given for Twelfth Step groups using an Ignatian spirituality format as the basis for the retreat. If that was the case, it was most likely attended by people of many different faiths. As a member of AlAnon (for family and friends of alcoholics) I attended one such retreat, and it was excellent in terms of having us identify our own brokenness, need for redemption and salvation, and strategies for improving our faith but in no wise was it a retreat designed exclusively for Roman Catholics. Mass was available and offered on both Saturday night and Sunday morning, all were welcome to attend but it was made clear that only Catholics were permitted to receive communion. The two Jesuits who directed this retreat were wonderful in facilitating discussion, thought, and prayer tailored for the needs of the retreatants in dealing with the rather specialized circumstances of their lives (living with an alcoholic.) We were shown how to pray the Examen, how to use the movements of our spirits in discerning the direction that God was leading, how to make good, healthy, and spiritually solid decisions and take action. That was great for a group of people who by default had been living their lives around the whims of active alcoholics.

However, I can understand where someone expecting a more traditional silent retreat would have been disconcerted by this sort of presentation (which, again, was open to people of all faiths who happened to have specialized life circumstances.) It definitely was not the former. Is it possible that this was the type of retreat where you found yourself that weekend?

I subsequently (several years later) undertook the Spiritual Exercises on an eight day retreat. This was definitely much more traditionally Catholic in its format. Mass was daily, you met with your assigned spiritual director daily, plenty of time (and assignment) of lectio divina and meditation with specific subjects outlined, again the Examen and discernment of spirits (nice that I already had experience doing this,) and the opportunity (and encouragement) to do a general confession. The only thing that wasn’t there was Latin. It was very Christ-centered, in fact, the meditations and reading assignments were on the Gospels.

I really can’t imagine how someone expecting a traditional retreat would have been disappointed in this format.

Thanks for posting this! It sounds very helpful. If you don’t mind sharing, how was your experience with the spiritual director?

 

[odile53]

My experience with the SD on the second retreat (the traditional 8 day retreat) was quite insightful, and I felt much closer to the Lord than I had been previously. While I still was doing certain of the spiritual disciplines I had learned on the AlAnon retreat (most notably, the Examen,) the second, more traditional retreat bolstered them. Discussing the experiences I had during lectio divina and prayer with an experienced director was useful as well–I was given additional prayer exercises, as well as additional spiritual reading to accomplish. While this was basically a silent retreat (no group discussions, but some presentations to the larger group, the only time you spoke was to share with the SD or at Mass or in general confession, we took meals in silence as well) the insights I developed were real challenges to me and my previously complacent and ritualized spirituality. A few things were pointed out to me about myself that I hadn’t even realized previously.

There’s nothing wrong with comfortable ritual, that is one of the great unifiers in the Church. But this was something more. More of an invitation by Jesus to walk more closely with Him, to get to know Him, to trust Him as friend, brother, savior, redeemer and God. More of an opportunity to put my whole personality and soul into loving God for His sake. More. That’s the best I can explain it.