Are the JWs false prophets?

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If the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many Witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards? (“They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn’t come as they had implied over and over again,” said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah’s Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)
Jim Penton
Those that become disciples for the wrong reasons will eventually be sifted out just like many who followed Jesus.

NJB John 6:65 He went on, ‘This is why I told you that no one could come to me except by the gift of the Father.’ 66 After this, many of his disciples went away and accompanied him no more.

I was there in 1975 and personally I never felt the end would come on that date. We had been already told not to teach something specific would happen on that date. Those who did and left for that reason were just like the many disciples in John 6:65.
 
Those that become disciples for the wrong reasons will eventually be sifted out just like many who followed Jesus.

NJB John 6:65 He went on, ‘This is why I told you that no one could come to me except by the gift of the Father.’ 66 After this, many of his disciples went away and accompanied him no more.

I was there in 1975 and personally I never felt the end would come on that date. We had been already told not to teach something specific would happen on that date. Those who did and left for that reason were just like the many disciples in John 6:65.
So Dan, you personally did not believe God’s word in the Watchtower?

Those who believe that God uses The Watchtower as a means of communicating to his people, or of calling attention to his prophecies, should study The Watchtower…" – The Watchtower January 1, 1942, page 5

How about all the other times they predicted the end that never occurred? You didn’t believe those either?

Those who left were the ones who came to their senses and saw that the JWs were a false religion.
 
Those paying attention did not teach 1975 would be the end.
Come on! You should know that we can post all of the articles about 1975 and how many times it was stated as true such as at "God’s Sons of Liberty” District Convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the summer of 1966
“no later than the autumn of 1975”; that they had been wrong in the past, “but this time, there is no doubt, we got it right!”

“The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years:”
Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?”

We got all the documents. The JWs made another false prediction and when it failed to come true it blamed those members for believing what was published and taught!!

Read what one JW said about the fiasco of 1975. If you are allowed to do so that is.
4jehovah.org/help-1975-prophecy.php
 
So Dan, you personally did not believe God’s word in the Watchtower?

Those who believe that God uses The Watchtower as a means of communicating to his people, or of calling attention to his prophecies, should study The Watchtower…" – The Watchtower January 1, 1942, page 5

How about all the other times they predicted the end that never occurred? You didn’t believe those either?

Those who left were the ones who came to their senses and saw that the JWs were a false religion.
You don’t seem very well informed and have not discussed the WT quotes I provided. We don’t believe anyone prophecies today, not us or anyone else. Publishing commentaries that discuss prophecies is not predicting the future. As a matter of fact, Jesus predicted that his true disciples would get the time of the end wrong:

NAB Matthew 24:42 Therefore, stay awake! For you do not know on which day your Lord will come. 43 Be sure of this: if the master of the house had known the hour of night when the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and not let his house be broken into. 44 So too, you also must be prepared, for at an hour you do not expect, the Son of Man will come.

If he comes when the faithful slave does not expect, that means the slave was expecting him to come at some other time.
 
Come on! You should know that we can post all of the articles about 1975 and how many times it was stated as true such as at "God’s Sons of Liberty” District Convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the summer of 1966
“no later than the autumn of 1975”; that they had been wrong in the past, “but this time, there is no doubt, we got it right!”

“The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years:”
Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?”

We got all the documents. The JWs made another false prediction and when it failed to come true it blamed those members for believing what was published and taught!!

Read what one JW said about the fiasco of 1975. If you are allowed to do so that is.
4jehovah.org/help-1975-prophecy.php
You missed this one, even though I already posted it.
"Brother Franz [at the Baltimore assembly in 1966] went on to say: You have noticed the chart [on pages 31-35 in the book Life Everlasting--in Freedom of the Sons of God]. It shows that 6000 years of human experience will end in 1975, in about nine years from now. What does that mean? ...Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could! It could!. Does it mean that the attack of God of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah witnesses to wipe them out, then God himself will be put out of actions? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And **don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975**." "Rejoicing over 'God's Sons of Liberty' Spiritual Feast," The Watchtower, 15 October 1966, Page 631.
 
Dan, I know you are smarter than that.

So you’re saying that nobody should have put any faith in any of the predictions? You post one disclaimer over all the other ones that said 1975 was to be a sure thing? That the Watchtower is God’s word?

You did not read the link I gave you. You should read it. Read it and comment on it tomorrow. I’m going to bed. Good nite.
 
You missed this one, even though I already posted it.
Code:
"Brother Franz [at the Baltimore assembly in 1966] went on to say: You have noticed the chart [on pages 31-35 in the book Life Everlasting--in Freedom of the Sons of God]. It shows that 6000 years of human experience will end in 1975, in about nine years from now. What does that mean? ...Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could! It could!. Does it mean that the attack of God of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah witnesses to wipe them out, then God himself will be put out of actions? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And **don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975**." "Rejoicing over 'God's Sons of Liberty' Spiritual Feast," The Watchtower, 15 October 1966, Page 631.
Wow. It seems to me that the quote “IT COULD, BUT WE ARE NOT SAYING” would make a fitting sales and marketing motto for the JWs.

Plus, what a great ploy to sell Watchtower magazines … use the old cliffhanger routine to keep people in suspense, just like in the old pulp fiction serialized magazine stories.

“Will the World End This Year? :eek: … Answer Given in Our Next Issue” … then just wait a generation or so, change a few names and dates, rinse, repeat and recycle the same article again until finally you come out with …

… * drumroll please * … “Will the World End This Year? :eek: … Well, Since It Hasn’t Ended Yet the Last Three Times We Predicted It Would, It Could But We Are Not Saying … However, Read Our Next Issue to Hear More Dire Tales of How the Wicked World in This Present System of Things is Going Boing, Boink, Splat! (Someday, That Is.)”

🍿
 
Wow. It seems to me that the quote “IT COULD, BUT WE ARE NOT SAYING” would make a fitting sales and marketing motto for the JWs.

Plus, what a great ploy to sell Watchtower magazines … use the old cliffhanger routine to keep people in suspense, just like in the old pulp fiction serialized magazine stories.

“Will the World End This Year? :eek: … Answer Given in Our Next Issue” … then just wait a generation or so, change a few names and dates, rinse, repeat and recycle the same article again until finally you come out with …

… * drumroll please * … “Will the World End This Year? :eek: … Well, Since It Hasn’t Ended Yet the Last Three Times We Predicted It Would, It Could But We Are Not Saying … However, Read Our Next Issue to Hear More Dire Tales of How the Wicked World in This Present System of Things is Going Boing, Boink, Splat! (Someday, That Is.)”

🍿
He confirms what I said. Those who paid attention were not disappointed when the end did not come in 1975. The fact is we still teach that 1975 marked 6000 years of man’s existence. It was a milestone for us, but not the end.
 
Dan,
But what about the 1914 generation that would not pass away before the end of the system of things? That was a foundational belief of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. There is NO way you could suggest that it wasn’t said or taught and repeated by every single Jehovah’s Witness on the planet. It was printed in every single AWAKE magazine for decades. What about that?

That generation DID pass away. That prophecy failed - big time. Now what? Where do you go from here? You can’t suggest that it’s a matter of not being disappointed - or walking away… the 1914 was a fundamental belief of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Are you going to insist that the Jehovah’s Witnesses did not give that prophecy? Or it somehow wasn’t a prophecy? Telling the world that the generation would not pass away was the very purpose of the AWAKE magazine… as stated on it’s inside cover.

Does that WT still teach that Jesus came back in 1914? I’m not sure why it would… there is no evidence of that.

Dan, I’m curious what you think of Charles T. Russel. Was he God’s sole chosen chanel of communication as he claimed, and his followers believed?

And what do you make of the 1914 generation now?
 
He confirms what I said. Those who paid attention were not disappointed when the end did not come in 1975. The fact is we still teach that 1975 marked 6000 years of man’s existence. It was a milestone for us, but not the end.
So, marking the milestone of man’s existence is something you consider important.

What about marking the milestone of Christmas?

What about marking the personal milestones of birthdays?

~~ the phoenix
 
You missed this one, even though I already posted it.
Code:
"Brother Franz [at the Baltimore assembly in 1966] went on to say: You have noticed the chart [on pages 31-35 in the book Life Everlasting--in Freedom of the Sons of God]. It shows that 6000 years of human experience will end in 1975, in about nine years from now. What does that mean? ...Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could! It could!. Does it mean that the attack of God of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah witnesses to wipe them out, then God himself will be put out of actions? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And **don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975**." "Rejoicing over 'God's Sons of Liberty' Spiritual Feast," The Watchtower, 15 October 1966, Page 631.
Brother Franz seems to have had something else to say:
By 1976, it became obvious to everyone that the Watchtower Society’s “Armageddon prophecy” had again failed to come. Many began to “murmur” and “complain” to the point that the Watchtower Society was forced to address this issue. When they finally did, we were stunned and shocked at what they said. The rank-and-file Jehovah’s Witnesses were practically yelled at! We were accused of it being our fault that Armageddon didn’t come! I remember Watchtower President Fred Franz yelling at the audience of Jehovah’s Witnesses saying, “You know why Armageddon didn’t come? Because you WANTED IT TO COME!”
Then, in talks and in the literature, the Watchtower Society began putting the blame for their false prediction on the rank-and-file Jehovah’s Witnesses by saying that we read more into the 1975 date than what the Society had stated, and that this was the reason we were disappointed. They went on to say that those who had built their lives around the anticipated fulfillment of a “specific date” had not followed the counsel of Jesus:
“…some who had been service God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bible’s warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date… Did Jesus mean that we should adjust our financial and secular affairs so that our resources would just carry us to a certain date that we might think marks the end?… This is not the kind of thinking that Jesus advised.” —The Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440 (View PDF of this page.)
What? Had not the Watchtower Society commended the brothers and sisters who had sold their homes and businesses in order to put more time into the Watchtower’s preaching work? Had not the Society said, “Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end!” (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3) And now they were telling us that our “disappointment” was our own fault for not heeding the words of Jesus?!!
This kind of revisionist history was slowly “fed” to the masses so that what they had drummed into our heads about 1975, was somehow turned around, and they managed to convince the remaining Jehovah’s Witnesses that the belief that Armageddon would come in 1975 had really been our own idea in the first place — that it had never been taught to us by the Watchtower Society.
4jehovah.org/help-1975-prophecy.php
 
Dan,
You’ve insisted that that the Watchtower Society is not a prophet. It would appear that they disagree with you:

“Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force… That same holy spirit and angelic direction still affect the preaching activities of Christian ministers.” —The Watchtower, July 1, 1973, pp. 402, 405

“There Ezekiel is definitely told that he is henceforth to serve as a prophet. He is commissioned to speak in the divine name… He was thus, in an outstanding way, made a witness of Jehovah. Not alone were the inspired words of Ezekiel prophetic, but he himself was a prophetic figure in his action…Who is Ezekiel’s present-day counterpart, whose message and conduct correspond with that of that ancient prophet of Jehovah?.. So it is with the modern-day counterpart of Ezekiel: it is, not one person’s body, but a composite body, made up of many members… were commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah…Why, though, are all these facts of history brought to our attention? It is to show the fulfillment of prophecy. Jehovah has found and commissioned his modern-day ‘Ezekiel.’ ” —“The Nations Shall Know THAT I AM JEHOVAH —How?”, 1971, pp. 56, 58-59, 66

“So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?..This ‘prophet’ was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are know as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses…Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a ‘prophet’ of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?” —The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197

“This is not giving any credit to the magazine’s publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with its truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies. He it is that makes possible the material that is published in the columns of this magazine…” —The Watchtower, April 15, 1943, p. 127

And here is their failed prophecy record:

1914: “…the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced.” —The Time Is At Hand, 1886, p. 101

1915: “…the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1915, with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced.” —The Time Is At Hand, 1915 edition, p. 101

1918: “Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of ‘Christianity.’ ” —The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 485

1925: “…1925 shall mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies of old…based upon the promises set forth in the divine Word, we must reach the positive and indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die.” —Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 97

1940’s: “It would therefore appear that there is no reasonable or Scriptural injunction to bring children into the world immediately before Armageddon, where we now are.” —The Watchtower, November 1, 1938, p. 324

1975: “Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.” —Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3

What should you make of the failed prophecies, Dan? Here’s what your Society’s own literature says:

“Jehovah, the God of the true prophets, will put all false prophets to shame either by not fulfilling the false prediction of such self-assuming prophets or by having his own prophecies fulfilled in a way opposite to that predicted by the false prophets. False prophets will try to hide their reason for feeling shame by denying who they really are.”—Paradise Restored to Mankind —By Theocracy!, Watch Tower Society, 1972, pp. 353-354

How ironic is that Dan?
 
Wow. It seems to me that the quote “IT COULD, BUT WE ARE NOT SAYING” would make a fitting sales and marketing motto for the JWs.

Plus, what a great ploy to sell Watchtower magazines … use the old cliffhanger routine to keep people in suspense, just like in the old pulp fiction serialized magazine stories.

“Will the World End This Year? :eek: … Answer Given in Our Next Issue” … then just wait a generation or so, change a few names and dates, rinse, repeat and recycle the same article again until finally you come out with …

… * drumroll please * … “Will the World End This Year? :eek: … Well, Since It Hasn’t Ended Yet the Last Three Times We Predicted It Would, It Could But We Are Not Saying … However, Read Our Next Issue to Hear More Dire Tales of How the Wicked World in This Present System of Things is Going Boing, Boink, Splat! (Someday, That Is.)”

🍿
Dave You sect is not ever a church its a money making organization that is not Christian,They do not believe in Hell,the trinity or God they think God is angle
 
Dave You sect is not ever a church its a money making organization that is not Christian,They do not believe in Hell,the trinity or God they think God is angle
I’m going to disagree with you here, Bill. I would not say they are in it for the money. Charles T. Russel was a crackpot, plain and simple who preached a message that did NOT come from God, but rather from his own imagination. Unfortunatly people believed him and began to repeat the message. When someone is totally brainwashed, as the Jehovah’s Witnesses are, it is very difficult to break free from the group - even if you have doubts. The leaders of the Organization (and you are right, they are NOT a church) actually believe they are following Jehovah. I would bet they were born into the JW’s or were baptized a JW at a very early age and they spent their lives surrounded by JW’s.

They aren’t evil. They are just brainwashed. Even when confronted with the evidence that they have NEVER been right - they remain on that same path. How could they leave? Everyone they know and love is a JW.

I feel so sorry for them. Theirs is a false gospel so all of the hard work they do in Jehovah’s name is of no value whatsoever. How sad is that?
 
I’m going to disagree with you here, Bill. I would not say they are in it for the money. Charles T. Russel was a crackpot, plain and simple who preached a message that did NOT come from God, but rather from his own imagination. Unfortunatly people believed him and began to repeat the message. When someone is totally brainwashed, as the Jehovah’s Witnesses are, it is very difficult to break free from the group - even if you have doubts. The leaders of the Organization (and you are right, they are NOT a church) actually believe they are following Jehovah. I would bet they were born into the JW’s or were baptized a JW at a very early age and they spent their lives surrounded by JW’s.

They aren’t evil. They are just brainwashed. Even when confronted with the evidence that they have NEVER been right - they remain on that same path. How could they leave? Everyone they know and love is a JW.

I feel so sorry for them. Theirs is a false gospel so all of the hard work they do in Jehovah’s name is of no value whatsoever. How sad is that?
Well I was told by a JW a few years back they had to pay for all the stuff they get from the office in New Yord. And was like a saleman for a big co, If you can get the truth out of him it be a good question
 
I’m going to disagree with you here, Bill. I would not say they are in it for the money. Charles T. Russel was a crackpot, plain and simple who preached a message that did NOT come from God, but rather from his own imagination. Unfortunatly people believed him and began to repeat the message. When someone is totally brainwashed, as the Jehovah’s Witnesses are, it is very difficult to break free from the group - even if you have doubts. The leaders of the Organization (and you are right, they are NOT a church) actually believe they are following Jehovah. I would bet they were born into the JW’s or were baptized a JW at a very early age and they spent their lives surrounded by JW’s.

They aren’t evil. They are just brainwashed. Even when confronted with the evidence that they have NEVER been right - they remain on that same path. How could they leave? Everyone they know and love is a JW.

I feel so sorry for them. Theirs is a false gospel so all of the hard work they do in Jehovah’s name is of no value whatsoever. How sad is that?
What doctrine did Russell teach that he originated from his own imagination? You say this with much vigor, so I would expect you can answer the question and back it up with references.
 
What doctrine did Russell teach that he originated from his own imagination? You say this with much vigor, so I would expect you can answer the question and back it up with references.
I will have to go back 12 years and I do not have the time I can tell you what is not Christian. They do not know who Jesus Christ is,they do not believe in HELL,they do not believe in the Trinity. I,am not saying all are from Russell . If you like to go to war over Russell and all the Kid this cult have kill over the blood thing I can get this done for you
 
What doctrine did Russell teach that he originated from his own imagination? You say this with much vigor, so I would expect you can answer the question and back it up with references.
Do you think the message that Russell preached and wrote about in “Thy Kingdom Come” regarding the Great Pyramid and it’s measurements being the key to unlocking the dates of the end times something that originated from God?

Thy Kingdom Come, (Millennial Dawn, vol. 3); by Charles Taze Russell, copyright 1891, by The Watch Tower Bible And Tract Society. 1904 edition.

Thy Kingdom Come, (Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3); by Charles Taze Russell, copyright 1891, by The Watch Tower Bible And Tract Society. 1910 edition. (1)

There is much controversy because Russell actually quotes different measurements for the Pyramid in the later edition after his failed earlier predictions.

Some say Russell was obsessed with the whole Pyramid thing … it’s interesting to note that a giant pyramid memorial was constructed at his gravesite.

Dan ~ I’m curious what you make of the most recent failed prophecy that the generation of 1914 would not pass away?
 
fron the JW paper telling its member to lie;;;1960 “the Scriptures justify the ‘war strategy’ of hiding true facts from the enemy.” (Watchtower May 15, 1960, page 295)
1960 “As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies.” (Watchtower; 6/1/1960; p. 352) will you please explain this to me.,is this what Jesus said for us to preach not tell the truth.WOW
 
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