Are the JWs false prophets?

[Bill_Pick]

The Jehova’s Witnesses have predicted the coming of Armageddon in 1914, 1925, and 1975. Because Armageddon has not yet taken place would that, according to the below listed verses, make the Witnesses false prophets? I am very interested in responses from the Witnesses.

20 But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain.
21 And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken?
22 Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22

The JW predicted so many thing that have not be true and now they are saying we are getting a NEW LIGHT which is saying we will predicted some thing again and again until we get it right. About 10 years, But I have a question for them they are letting their children die with out blood so what will then tell some one whos child has die because of not getting any blood and they change the rules on blood. in the next 10 years

 

[yellowbird]

"Are the JWs false prophets?"

Of course. They are just another non-Christian cult.

More info here…

I don’t think what this particular group has to say about the JW is of any merit. After all, it is just their opinion and it certainly wouldn’t sway the average Jehovah’s Witness. This website has nothing good to say about the Catholic Church either.

What I think is much more telling is the actual writings of the Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves. They claim that God’s ONLY chanel of communication is through them:

"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave. (Watchtower; Oct. 1, 1994; p. 8

But yet it is clear that they have not gotten it right throughout their brief history… their own literature is proof of that. In light of the scriptures regarding false prophets, it becomes obvious that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do NOT speak in God’s name. They have no authority whatsoever. Their record testifies to that.

Everything else they do and say is secondary to that truth. I don’t care what holidays they choose to celebrate or what medical procedures (blood) they allow, or whether they are in it only for the money. Since they don’t speak for Jehovah God they are just one more sect who interpret the Bible based on nothing more than their own conjecture. EVERYTHING they teach and believe stems from that.

Follow them if you want. But don’t kid yourself that you are following Jehovah. This is what He has to say about false prophets.

Deut 18:21
You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Jeremiah 23:16
This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD

 

[Dan_Parker]

The JW predicted so many thing that have not be true and now they are saying we are getting a NEW LIGHT which is saying we will predicted some thing again and again until we get it right. About 10 years, But I have a question for them they are letting their children die with out blood so what will then tell some one whos child has die because of not getting any blood and they change the rules on blood. in the next 10 years

If JWs do not change in the next 10 years will you be a false prophet?

 

[yellowbird]

If JWs do not change in the next 10 years will you be a false prophet?

Dan,
Bill Pick does not claim to speak for Jehovah. He doens’t claim to be the faithful and discreet slave and Jehovah’s ONLY channel of communication. He isn’t prophecizing… he is just giving his own opinion.

Jehovah’s Witnesses can’t have it both ways. They cannot claim to speak for Jehovah… to be his channel of communication and then, when they get it wrong, inisist they aren’t prophecizing. Not when the definition of prophecy is “to predict or reveal through Divine inspriation.” That is exactly what Jehovah’s witnesses claim… to be Jehovah’s chanel of communication.

Are the Governing Body guided by Jehovah - or not? Which is it Dan?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Dan,
Bill Pick does not claim to speak for Jehovah. He doens’t claim to be the faithful and discreet slave and Jehovah’s ONLY channel of communication. He isn’t prophecizing… he is just giving his own opinion.

Jehovah’s Witnesses can’t have it both ways. They cannot claim to speak for Jehovah… to be his channel of communication and then, when they get it wrong, inisist they aren’t prophecizing. Not when the definition of prophecy is “to predict or reveal through Divine inspriation.” That is exactly what Jehovah’s witnesses claim… to be Jehovah’s chanel of communication.

Are the Governing Body guided by Jehovah - or not? Which is it Dan?

Dave This is just more of your hogwash after you cult gets it Wrong then they say wait we have NEW LIGHT and after another 4 or 5 years O my god its wrong again its only NEW LIGHT, What is you cult going to do after Mother and Father kill more and more kids about the blood thing are they just going to say we are sorry its NEW LIGHT

 

[Dan_Parker]

Dan,
Bill Pick does not claim to speak for Jehovah. He doens’t claim to be the faithful and discreet slave and Jehovah’s ONLY channel of communication. He isn’t prophecizing… he is just giving his own opinion.

Jehovah’s Witnesses can’t have it both ways. They cannot claim to speak for Jehovah… to be his channel of communication and then, when they get it wrong, inisist they aren’t prophecizing. Not when the definition of prophecy is “to predict or reveal through Divine inspriation.” That is exactly what Jehovah’s witnesses claim… to be Jehovah’s chanel of communication.

Are the Governing Body guided by Jehovah - or not? Which is it Dan?

Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t claim that they or anyone are prophets in the sense of foretelling the future. However every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is acting as a prophet when they read bible verses that contain prophecy in their ministry.

As for being wrong about when the end would come, Jesus predicted that this would happen and that it would come at a time when they did not expect it to come.
NJB Matthew 24:44 Therefore, you too must stand ready because the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect

 

[yellowbird]

Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t claim that they or anyone are prophets in the sense of foretelling the future. However every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is acting as a prophet when they read bible verses that contain prophecy in their ministry.

As for being wrong about when the end would come, Jesus predicted that this would happen and that it would come at a time when they did not expect it to come.
NJB Matthew 24:44 Therefore, you too must stand ready because the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect

So when the Jehovah’s Witnesses said that Millions Now Living Will Never Die in 1925, wasn’t that a prediction about the future? When they said that the generation that saw the events take place in 1914 would live to see the conclusion of this system of things was that not a prediction? And if they weren’t speaking for Jehovah, by whose authority were they speaking? Their own? And if they were only speaking on their own authority back then, why would I want to listen to them now? By what authority do they speak now?

The Watchtower (4/15/1952) states:

Jehovah has provided a channel, the “faithful and discreet slave” class, who are given spiritual “food at the proper time”, and this spiritual food includes among other things the understandings of the prophecies in the course of their fulfillments. (Matt. 24:45, NW)

Watchtower 1/15/1959:

Who will be Jehovah’s prophet to the nations, to speak to them everything that He should command? Who will be the modern Jeremiah? … Who will prophesy with his message in this time of the end of the nations of this world? Jehovah’s witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. … It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths…

So when the JWs claimed they were speaking for Jehovah, were they lying Dan?

 

[yellowbird]

However every one of Jehovah's Witnesses is acting as a prophet when they read bible verses that contain prophecy in their ministry.

This was printed in EVERY single Awake magizine:

“…the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.”

If the Creator promised that, why didn’t it happen? Since the generation passed away, one can only assume that Jehovah did not make that promise.

Why did the Watchtower claim He did? And what do you make of that in light of this verse:

Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

We could go 'round and 'round on this Dan… but the fact is Jehovah’s Witnesses, claiming to be His only channel of communication have made statements and predictions about the future that DID NOT COME TRUE. In light of the verse in Deut, they are clearly false prophets.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

To the OP: yes

 

[Dan_Parker]

This was printed in EVERY single Awake magizine:

“…the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.”

If the Creator promised that, why didn’t it happen? Since the generation passed away, one can only assume that Jehovah did not make that promise.

Why did the Watchtower claim He did? And what do you make of that in light of this verse:

Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

We could go 'round and 'round on this Dan… but the fact is Jehovah’s Witnesses, claiming to be His only channel of communication have made statements and predictions about the future that DID NOT COME TRUE. In light of the verse in Deut, they are clearly false prophets.

A misinterpretation of an existing prophecy, yes. Making a prophecy, no. However you really picked a bad example, because we still teach that the generation of 1914 will not pass away until the end comes. We have adjusted our understanding of what the generation signifies, but we still hold to that statement. BTW can you prove that the generation passed away? I don’t believe it has. You just made that up, didn’t you? If you are wrong you are a false prophet.

 

[yellowbird]

A misinterpretation of an existing prophecy, yes. Making a prophecy, no. However you really picked a bad example, because we still teach that the generation of 1914 will not pass away until the end comes. We have adjusted our understanding of what the generation signifies, but we still hold to that statement. BTW can you prove that the generation passed away? I don’t believe it has. You just made that up, didn’t you? If you are wrong you are a false prophet.

What does a generation now mean? According to the JWs, it used to mean 70 years, 80 if they were especially mighty. (whatever that means?) And they used to teach that a person had to be aware of the events prior to 1914 to notice the change that took place afterwards. It was commonly taught this would be a person born in 1900, give or take a few years. Sooooo…that generation, born in 1900 would be 109 today… give or take a few years. Do you honestly need proof that the generation passed away?

So you’re saying that is no longer the teaching of the JWs? I’m curious to know what they’ve changed it to mean? And does that bother you? That as time passes and the things they claim will happen don’t, they have to change their “understanding.”

Not a very reliable “spokesman for Jehovah” if you ask me.

 

[yellowbird]

A misinterpretation of an existing prophecy, yes. Making a prophecy, no. However you really picked a bad example, because we still teach that the generation of 1914 will not pass away until the end comes. We have adjusted our understanding of what the generation signifies, but we still hold to that statement. BTW can you prove that the generation passed away? I don’t believe it has. You just made that up, didn’t you? If you are wrong you are a false prophet.

Wait wait wait… if the JWs didn’t make up the prophecy about the generation not passing away… who did? Where exactly is that found in the Bible? The year “1914” is not mentioned in scripture. Russell got it from his study of the Great Pyramid, remember? How is that a misinerpretation of an exsisting prophecy? It didn’t exist prior to Russell.

Would you agree that prophecy originated with him?

Edit: Although now I’m not so sure because a review of Russell’s beliefs shows he died believing Jesus returned in 1878. I guess it was Rutherford who later changed the date to 1914. There are so many “dates” in the brief history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses it’s hard to keep them all straight.

 

[Dan_Parker]

Wait wait wait… if the JWs didn’t make up the prophecy about the generation not passing away… who did? Where exactly is that found in the Bible? The year “1914” is not mentioned in scripture. Russell got it from his study of the Great Pyramid, remember? How is that a misinerpretation of an exsisting prophecy? It didn’t exist prior to Russell.

Would you agree that prophecy originated with him?

Edit: Although now I’m not so sure because a review of Russell’s beliefs shows he died believing Jesus returned in 1878. I guess it was Rutherford who later changed the date to 1914. There are so many “dates” in the brief history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses it’s hard to keep them all straight.

Russell was correct on the date but incorrect as to its significance. We still teach that 1914 was the end of the gentile times. He thought Armageddon would come then but he was not correct. His Chronology was correct (mostly) but his interpretation was incorrect.

BTW are Catholics waiting for Christ to return to reign on earth and for Armageddon and the Tribulation to take place?

 

[Dan_Parker]

Wait wait wait… if the JWs didn’t make up the prophecy about the generation not passing away… who did? Where exactly is that found in the Bible? The year “1914” is not mentioned in scripture. Russell got it from his study of the Great Pyramid, remember? How is that a misinerpretation of an exsisting prophecy? It didn’t exist prior to Russell.

Would you agree that prophecy originated with him?

Edit: Although now I’m not so sure because a review of Russell’s beliefs shows he died believing Jesus returned in 1878. I guess it was Rutherford who later changed the date to 1914. There are so many “dates” in the brief history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses it’s hard to keep them all straight.

The generation is found in the bible. How do Catholics interpret it?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Wait wait wait… if the JWs didn’t make up the prophecy about the generation not passing away… who did? Where exactly is that found in the Bible? The year “1914” is not mentioned in scripture. Russell got it from his study of the Great Pyramid, remember? How is that a misinerpretation of an exsisting prophecy? It didn’t exist prior to Russell.

Would you agree that prophecy originated with him?

Edit: Although now I’m not so sure because a review of Russell’s beliefs shows he died believing Jesus returned in 1878. I guess it was Rutherford who later changed the date to 1914. There are so many “dates” in the brief history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses it’s hard to keep them all straight.

Dan Please Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine…Matt 7:6

 

[ricko]

Russell was correct on the date but incorrect as to its significance. We still teach that 1914 was the end of the gentile times. He thought Armageddon would come then but he was not correct. His Chronology was correct (mostly) but his interpretation was incorrect.

**BTW are Catholics waiting for Christ to return to reign on earth and for Armageddon and the Tribulation to take place?/**QUOTE]

NOPE.

We are not waiting for any such thing Dan. The reason is because our world for us will end when we die. That event will certainly happen in our lifetime. We live our lives as if each day is our last, not in morbid expectation but with hope that we have lived our life as a true Christian.

I will make a prediction Dan. My own prediction or opinion and I bet that I’m right. Millions now living, (including you Dan and all the other JWs alive) will all die before the end of the world comes.

 

[yellowbird]

Actually we are waiting for Christ to come again. We confess that at every mass…

“And He (Christ) will come again to judge the living and the dead and His Kingdom will have no end.”

But ricko is right in that we have no idea when this will happen so we have to live each and every day as if it is our last because the “end” most certainly comes for all of us at our death.

But that is all for another thread. This thread is whether the Jehovah’s Witnesses are false prophets and I’m fairly certain that enough evidence has been given for the reader to make up his/her own mind.

As a side note I’d just like to publically say THANK YOU JESUS that I am a member of Your One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I can’t imagine living in the confusion of changing dates and failed prophecies. I can’t imagine living my life based on miscalculations and dim light. What about all the Jehovah’s witnesses who put off having children because they were told it was the wise thing to do? I’m going to hug all five of my children tonight and THANK GOD I was never told by my Church to not have them because it was the wise thing to do. Sadness. I feel nothing but sadness and pity for Jehovah’s witnesses.

 

[zerinus]

As for being wrong about when the end would come, Jesus predicted that this would happen and that it would come at a time when they did not expect it to come.
NJB Matthew 24:44 Therefore, you too must stand ready because the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect

Jesus also said this:

Mark 13:32 “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the ANGELS which are in heaven, neither the SON, but the Father.”

So if the angels in haven don’t know when it will happen, and even the Son doesn’t know, how are the JWs going to know? That makes anybody who claims to know a false prophet! We don’t need to wait to see of his prophecy is fulfilled or not.

BTW are Catholics waiting for Christ to return to reign on earth and for Armageddon and the Tribulation to take place?

Can’t speak for Catholics—but anyone who claims to know the date according to the above scripture will be a false prophet. If angels and Jesus and “no man” but the Father knows, how can JWs or Catholics or anybody else know?

Edit: Although now I’m not so sure because a review of Russell’s beliefs shows he died believing Jesus returned in 1878. I guess it was Rutherford who later changed the date to 1914. There are so many “dates” in the brief history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses it’s hard to keep them all straight.

These couple of articles should be helpful (earlier I had found a better one [it was a Wiki], but now I don’t seem to find it):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_regarding_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses

 

[Bill_Pick]

Ricko Can i get part of that bet I need the cash.

 

[Dan_Parker]

I am going to unsubscribe from this thread and focus on Sacred Scripture. If anyone wants to discuss Scripture see me there. - Dan Parker