Are the Mainline Protestant Churches in Decline?

[sandmountainsli]

I think mainline protestant churches are dwindling because they are caving into the world philosophy. The gospel message is being watered down and people are really not being fed the truth anymore.

I started out episcopalian(born and raised) went to baptist and then went to a non-denom. The baptist church and my non-denom teach they same doctrine. I just needed a church where I could grow in Christ more. My church just had more to offer me and my kids(acticities–bible studies, youth group etc.)

IMHO people are starting to realize they want more out of their churches. We have had so many new people come in I cant even count. I think our church initially attracts people because of the large array of activities. We do not teach a watered down gospel message either. The truth is hard but tough:thumbsup: My church is keeping people because we are preaching the truth and people know they need this in such a corrupt , immoral world.

Just my:twocents:

I have always been a bit nervous about the Non-Denom churches (there are tons of them in my area). I am under the impression, and I could be wrong that they “Speak in tongues” and “Run the Aisles” and such things which I don’t practice. Am I wrong?
WP

 

[ALLFORHIM]

That’s funny because I’ve been told that attendance at Catholic Churches have been dwindling because they will NOT cave into the world philosophy on what’s acceptable and not acceptable. It looks like there’s no way to generalize anything anymore. It looks like a case by case basis, depending on the area and whether it’s predominately Protestant, non-denom or Catholic.

Yeah your probably right

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I have always been a bit nervous about the Non-Denom churches (there are tons of them in my area). I am under the impression, and I could be wrong that they “Speak in tongues” and “Run the Aisles” and such things which I don’t practice. Am I wrong?
WP

Hi,
That would be more a pentacostal church or charismatic type church. Our non-denom does not do that nor do we believe in speaking in tongues. If you were to ask them if they considered themselves charismatic and they said yes then they would probably be running around.
I went to one when I was church hopping and I felt so out of place because I was raised episcopalian and we were taught to sit down and shut up. My brother goes to one out in bible belt country and it isnt that bad except the service is 2 hours long and that is too much for me. I think I have A.D.D.

I think mrs. abbott is right, we cant generalize anymore.

The one thing I have noticed from the several I have been to is that we believe the same intrepretation of doctrine. Worship style is whatever suits your congregation I guess.

 

[Steadfast]

It might help to look at the question as the ‘reconfiguration’ of the worldwide Christian community rather than the decline and growth of seperate denominations.

instead of this church is growing, this one is in decline, I see the movement of people as a repositioning of Christianity, as though it is in search of a new role in the modern world; hence the repositioning and movement of people to different labels and socal positions to make it fit in with modernity.

I’m not saying this is in any way an answer but I think you’ll only answer your question looking at it from this angle, viewing all churches as one fluid and changeable movement of views.

Take care.

Sarah x

I think this is a keen and valuable insight, unfortunately (or fortunately) it raises a whole host of questions having to do with “why”.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Abira]

Well, with all due respect to you, I was phrasing the question I was looking for the answer to…

I suppose my ‘answer’ to you then would have to be:

I can’t answer you yet as the worldwide church has not yet found its modern place in society. When it does find its place you’ll maybe get some answers but the church hasn’t made its own mind up yet, so we’ll have to wait and see . I don’t understand its direction yet as it seems to be ever-changing at the moment, especially in Europe with the politica climate there.

 

[jmcrae]

That’s funny because I’ve been told that attendance at Catholic Churches have been dwindling because they will NOT cave into the world philosophy on what’s acceptable and not acceptable.

Another reason could be that the secularists are just staying home. Liberal Protestant churches are trying to be the “Church home” for secularists, but the secularists aren’t even looking for a place to go to Church on Sundays. They’re sleeping in and going golfing on Sundays - and if they decide to send their kids to Sunday School, they’ll go with something that the kids think is fun, which usually maps out to some variation on the David C. Cook series, which is usually taught in more conservative Protestant settings.

This is why the liberal Protestant churches are going to die - because they aren’t relevant to their target audience (secularists), and nor are they relevant to people who are looking for a place to go to Church or to send their kids to Sunday School on Sundays, because those people are looking for a place to learn about their Christian faith and be taught how to live it, and they are looking in the places where this most obviously happens - in the Catholic churches and in the more conservative Protestant churches.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Another reason could be that the secularists are just staying home. Liberal Protestant churches are trying to be the “Church home” for secularists, but the secularists aren’t even looking for a place to go to Church on Sundays. They’re sleeping in and going golfing on Sundays - and if they decide to send their kids to Sunday School, they’ll go with something that the kids think is fun, which usually maps out to some variation on the David C. Cook series, which is usually taught in more conservative Protestant settings.

This is why the liberal Protestant churches are going to die - because they aren’t relevant to their target audience (secularists), and nor are they relevant to people who are looking for a place to go to Church or to send their kids to Sunday School on Sundays, because those people are looking for a place to learn about their Christian faith and be taught how to live it, and they are looking in the places where this most obviously happens - in the Catholic churches and in the more conservative Protestant churches.

Good point.

 

[Contarini]

Thanks for the links. I found them interesting, but I’m not sure I understand the conclusion of the last study. They are saying that it all comes down to birth control and not liberalism… but with all due respect the liberalism is precisely what leads to the birth control in my view. So, I don’t completely understand the reasoning.

I tend to agree, actually. I didn’t cite the study because I necessarily agreed with it.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I just did some background checking into Father Greeley. Looks like he’s one of the liberal Church discontinuants. I had the sense that the study might be suspect – after all, why would liberals want to recognize their liberalism as a reason for decline?

I’m curious if there are more objective studies out there.

First of all, don’t stereotype “liberals” as if they are all the same. Greeley is certainly a liberal by many standards, but he’s a weird one–he’s completely supportive of the discipline of priestly celibacy, for instance. He is in no sense a liberal-Protestant wannabe.

In the second place, the fact that someone disagrees with you does not make them less “objective” than someone who does. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that there’s no such thing as objectivity (at least in a relative sense–i.e., some are more objective than others), but the word is almost always useless, because most people use it to mean “a point of view agreeing with mine.”

Greeley is one of the most respected sociologists of religion out there. But that doesn’t mean that he’s right. I tend to agree more with Rodney Stark and [Roger?] Finke, though I have huge theological issues with their conclusions–they basically think that having a lot of competing churches is very healthy. (I’m glad to see that this contention is challenged in this article, which leaves some of their other, more congenial arguments untouched.)

Edwin

 

[mrs_abbott]

Another reason could be that the secularists are just staying home. Liberal Protestant churches are trying to be the “Church home” for secularists, but the secularists aren’t even looking for a place to go to Church on Sundays. They’re sleeping in and going golfing on Sundays - and if they decide to send their kids to Sunday School, they’ll go with something that the kids think is fun, which usually maps out to some variation on the David C. Cook series, which is usually taught in more conservative Protestant settings.

When I was not going to church, I wasn’t actively searching for another place to go. I think most people who have a rift with their church would rather stay home then join up with another church and find out that it’s really THEM with the problems, instead of the church. It’s not true for all people but I think it’s safe to say that’s the story for most of them.

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

First of all, don’t stereotype “liberals” as if they are all the same. Greeley is certainly a liberal by many standards, but he’s a weird one–he’s completely supportive of the discipline of priestly celibacy, for instance. He is in no sense a liberal-Protestant wannabe.

I didn’t stereotype anyone. I’m kinda offended that you are telling me that I did. I called him a discontinuant, which means he has serious problems obeying the Church. From what I researched, that is **demonstrably **the case, and it is not my stereotype of him.

In the second place, the fact that someone disagrees with you does not make them less “objective” than someone who does. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that there’s no such thing as objectivity (at least in a relative sense–i.e., some are more objective than others), but the word is almost always useless, because most people use it to mean “a point of view agreeing with mine.”

Please don’t try to tell me what I agree with or disagree with. I made an observation that I think is reasonable. I have doubts about their objectivity and I’m entitled to believe that.

Contrary to some belief, objectivity IS possible if someone tries to not let their agenda cloud their work.

I’m not here to be your strawman. Please don’t assert that I need to “agree” with something in order to think it’s objective. It’s insulting. You don’t know me.

Greeley is one of the most respected sociologists of religion out there. But that doesn’t mean that he’s right. I tend to agree more with Rodney Stark and [Roger?] Finke, though I have huge theological issues with their conclusions–they basically think that having a lot of competing churches is very healthy. (I’m glad to see that this contention is challenged in this article, which leaves some of their other, more congenial arguments untouched.)

Edwin

I’m not sure that having so many competing Churches is healthy, but it’s somewhat Academic, as there are over 30,000 denominations right now.

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

So, from what I can gather here:

There is a sense that the numbers for the Mormons is not accurate.

There is not certainty as to why membership in the U.S. for the mainline Church’s is down, but two theories are the more liberal philosophies of those churches and/or the lower rate of reproduction among the members of those churches.

And non-demoninational seems to be on the rise. Which leads me to my next question.

What exactly is non-denominational?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,

My church is non-denom and I would venture to say that it is a church that is not affiliated with any other denom. We have our own governing body—Christ is the head–then minister–then elders–then deacons and then congregation. We do not answer to any other organized body of religion only to the word of God.

Maybe someone smarter can add or subtract from my statement.

 

[jmcrae]

What exactly is non-denominational?

It’s the new name for the Wee Free - it’s generally characterized by Congregationalist-style government, Baptist-style liturgies, and Nazarene-style preaching, and they divide out their Bible studies and Sunday Schools by age, gender, and marital status.

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

Hi,

My church is non-denom and I would venture to say that it is a church that is not affiliated with any other denom. We have our own governing body—Christ is the head–then minister–then elders–then deacons and then congregation. We do not answer to any other organized body of religion only to the word of God.

Maybe someone smarter can add or subtract from my statement.

And is the interpretation of the Scripture purely on an individual basis, or does your Church have an accepted view that the congregation shares?

And could you explain why the non-denoms seem to be drawing some followers away from the Mainline Protestant churches?

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

It’s the new name for the Wee Free - it’s generally characterized by Congregationalist-style government, Baptist-style liturgies, and Nazarene-style preaching, and they divide out their Bible studies and Sunday Schools by age, gender, and marital status.

Okay, here we go!

What is Congregationalist-style government?

What is a Baptist-style liturgy?

What is Nazarene-style preaching?

I’m not trying to be silly; I really don’t know for sure what these terms entail.

 

[jmcrae]

Okay, here we go!

Great questions!!

What is Congregationalist-style government?

It’s a self-contained unit that consists of Elders, Deacons, and clergy. Clergy are hired and appointed by the Elders. Deacons look after such things as building maintenance and financial affairs, while Elders are in charge of Sunday Schools, Bible Studies, and scheduling of services of Baptism, Holy Communion, and others. Clergy are in charge of the details of the Liturgy and the preaching, and are also responsible for ensuring that the teaching in the Sunday Schools and Bible Studies is “doctrinally sound” - the Elders and the members of clergy are interdependent. Typically there are two members of clergy - a senior pastor and a youth minister. There are no specific qualifications for either, other than those set by the Board of Elders, and these vary from congregation to congregation. There can be as many Elders and Deacons as necessary; these two positions are filled by volunteers from the congregation. Clergy are paid out of the weekly collections.

What is a Baptist-style liturgy?

Lots of music, testimonials, preaching, and then, quite often, an Altar Call.

What is Nazarene-style preaching?

Not quite fire and brimstone Bible-thumpin’ - more sort of quiet, measured, calm, rational Bible thumpin’. Although sometimes they let out a AMEN like a bunch of Baptists, or a Hallelujah that would put a Pentecostal to shame - it varies from place to place, of course.

 

[Sabda]

Well, I know out here in the Tulsa area its the Non-Denoms and the Pentecostals that are on the rise. These two groups are everywhere! I have at least two Non-Denoms less than 3 miles from my house. They have popped up in the last 2/3 years. I live way out in the boondocks too! I have noticed that there appears to be more of these two out in the neighborhoods and rural areas than there are in town. Tulsa gives the allusion of the main denoms being Baptist, Methodist churches. Once you actually get to looking at the whole area it’s just not true. Also, on the east side of Tulsa there are a number of those big huge churches. Can not think of what they are called right now, sorry. However, they seem to be confined to that area of Tulsa. I’m not sure why that is. So far I have not heard of any new Catholic parishes popping up but there is definitely growth going on within the Church out here. My mom’s parish is talking about building a new church building. They have also expanded their parking lot and are talking about putting in a new entrance from the highway. Current entrance is down an alleyway. I currently divide my time between two parishes. One parish is currently renovating the church building, 100 yrs old and NEEDS IT! The other one seems to be really active with lots of things for the people to do. Another thing, Holy Family Cathedral itself is being renovated. That’s just what I’ve been seeing out here. I’d say it looks like there are two groups of people. Those searching for a closer relationship and those who are not. I’d say Protestant Christianity is definitely experiencing a shift and Catholicism is seeing a renewal. At least out here they are.

 

[Contarini]

I didn’t stereotype anyone. I’m kinda offended that you are telling me that I did. I called him a discontinuant, which means he has serious problems obeying the Church. From what I researched, that is **demonstrably **the case, and it is not my stereotype of him.

But you seemed to think that his being a “discontinuant” made him more likely to defend mainline Protestantism. That is a stereotype. Conservative Catholics assume that liberal Catholics are going to be friendly to liberal Protestants. This is sometimes the case, but often it isn’t.

Please don’t try to tell me what I agree with or disagree with.

If you in fact agree with Greeley’s views, then I offer you my apology. But from what you said it is reasonable to infer that you do not agree with his views. Was I wrong? I’m not telling you what you agree with. I’m assuming that when you call someone a “discontinuant” you are doing so in a disapproving manner.

I made an observation that I think is reasonable. I have doubts about their objectivity and I’m entitled to believe that.

Of course. But on a public discussion board I’m entitled to ask you for your reasons. Greeley is a renowned sociologist of religion. If you have doubts about his professionalism (“objectivity” is a highly controversial concept), on what are they based? What reasons *other *than your disagreement with him do you have?

Contrary to some belief, objectivity IS possible if someone tries to not let their agenda cloud their work.

Depends on what you mean by “objectivity.” Perfect objectivity is impossible. It is possible, however, to work against your own bias and thus prevent it from distorting your perspective entirely. However, in order to do this, you need to be very careful about dismissing people as “not objective” because they come from perspectives with which you disagree. You need to make a particular effort to listen to perspectives you find uncongenial, and to be critical of those perspectives you find congenial.

Now if you are yourself a “discontinuant,” then obviously what I’m saying is unfair to you. But if you are not, then I am quite right in calling you to take Greeley seriously *precisely *because his views are uncongenial to you.

I’m not here to be your strawman. Please don’t assert that I need to “agree” with something in order to think it’s objective. It’s insulting. You don’t know me.

It’s getting harder and harder to have real debate around here, because if you try it people become offended.

There is nothing insulting about my pointing out that you have given no reason for distrusting Greeley other than his theological views. You can easily change this by sharing your reasons for distrusting his professional credentials. Until then, I don’t care if you are offended or not. You can’t shut down a reasonable critique by claiming offense.

I’m not sure that having so many competing Churches is healthy, but it’s somewhat Academic, as there are over 30,000 denominations right now.

Define “denomination.”

Edwin

 

[eleonardo]

Define “denomination.”

Edwin

Main Entry: de·nom·i·na·tion
A religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices.