Are the Orthodox Catholic?

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Paul_theApostle

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From-http://orthodoxwiki.org/One_Holy_Catholic_and_Apostolic_Church

Catholicity is sometimes confused with universality — the idea that the Christian faith is for all men. However, the word was originally used to denote the true Church among a growing horde of heretics who had removed elements from the faith which they disliked, refashioning Christian belief to their pleasure. Catholicity is a qualitative mark: the quality of the whole faith handed down from the apostles.​

Seeing that Rome calls itself the Catholic church,could it be that the Orthodox are not really Catholic(having the quality of the whole faith) because they dont accept or have removed from their faith teachings ,beliefs and dogmas of the “Catholic” Church of Rome?
 
Paul_theApostle said:
From-http://orthodoxwiki.org/One_Holy_Catholic_and_Apostolic_Church

Catholicity is sometimes confused with universality — the idea that the Christian faith is for all men. However, the word was originally used to denote the true Church among a growing horde of heretics who had removed elements from the faith which they disliked, refashioning Christian belief to their pleasure. Catholicity is a qualitative mark: the quality of the whole faith handed down from the apostles.​

Seeing that Rome calls itself the Catholic church,could it be that the Orthodox are not really Catholic(having the quality of the whole faith) because they dont accept or have removed from their faith teachings ,beliefs and dogmas of the “Catholic” Church of Rome?
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I take it you have been reading here for a while.

You should know that Orthodox are stubbornly conservative. This is why we are unwilling to budge in even small matters, it is why we have been accused of being ‘stagnant’ here on this board. It is why our critics resort to false accusations, like imagining that we started the schism.

It is the Roman Catholic church that has added teachings, not the Orthodox. The Orthodox do not remove teachings, although the Roman Catholics sometimes conveniently forget them.

This is why we sometimes think of the Roman Catholic church as the first Protestant church, the model, the prototype.
 
Honestly, this question is very provocative, and I wonder if there could be anything gained from discussing it. The Orthodox would say that we contain the fullness of the Christian faith within our Church; the Catholics would disagree and say that they possess the fullness of the Christian faith, while the Orthodox do not. Is there really any point to discussing it further? Things will only get unnecessarily nasty beyond stating the simple fact that the two parties are in disagreement, because any discussion will ultimately degrade into trying to prove that somebody’s Church is lacking in the fullness of the Christian faith.
 
Paul_theApostle said:
From-http://orthodoxwiki.org/One_Holy_Catholic_and_Apostolic_Church

Catholicity is sometimes confused with universality — the idea that the Christian faith is for all men. However, the word was originally used to denote the true Church among a growing horde of heretics who had removed elements from the faith which they disliked, refashioning Christian belief to their pleasure. Catholicity is a qualitative mark: the quality of the whole faith handed down from the apostles.​

Seeing that Rome calls itself the Catholic church,could it be that the Orthodox are not really Catholic(having the quality of the whole faith) because they dont accept or have removed from their faith teachings ,beliefs and dogmas of the “Catholic” Church of Rome?
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Are the orthodox Catholic? Yes - absolutely.
Are they in perfect communion with Rome? No - of course not.

Our Orthodox brothers and sisters are fairly unique among the groups who are not in communion with Rome in that they have equal claim to history and to Apostolic succession. Where the East and West differ is in two main areas - neither of which are insurmountable.
  1. Their general spiritual and theological outlook. The East tends to accept mystery more readily that the west. For instance, the Orthodox don’t really see a need for “defining” things like the real presence, or the immaculate conception etc…They simply accept that God did, and does what is necessary and they accept it in faith.
    The West seems to feel a greater need to “define” things…This sometimes gets us into trouble…for the more one tries to define, the more questions might be raised…We see this in the field of science all the time
  2. The other area is more structural and (I hate to use the term) political. The rights and duties and prerogatives of the Patriarchs and Pope are issues that need to be discussed and a common language of understanding found.
As to differences in teachings…I don’t really think one can say that one church or the other is missing parts, or have rejected parts. Some of the main sticking points (like the filoque) did not come into existence until after the split.

Let us seek together fuller understanding and acceptance of our Orthodox brothers and sisters. We have so much that we can learn from them.

Peace
James
 
The question might be provocative, yes. However, truth is revealed through history between the Western and Eastern Churches. It serves no purpose to make the theological “grandstanding” of the past, although it will help to understand the differences of today between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

Up to the year 1054 or so, there was only one Church throughout the world, with the many early rites of it in communion with the Pope.

The problems appeared to begin with the collapse of the Roman Empire by 476. By then, the Eastern Church centered itself through Constantinople, under the Byzantine Empire. It appears that a series of emperors were usurping the apostolic authority, appointing the patriarch (the counterpart to an archbishop) without papal approval, maneuvering the office’s duties as they saw politically fit.

The Popes, naturally, tried to counter these problems.

By 1054, a series of errors on both sides led to the schism. (I think that the telephone might have prevented it all, if it has existed back then.)

You should read the more detailed account in this Catholic Answers tract, and fortify it to other legitimate historical accounting, for it’s a complex web of error.

The good news is that the mutual excommunications that were made are long since retracted, and the two Churches share much in common. They both have valid bishops and apostolic authority (for they came from the same root). They have some significant differences with a few aspects of theology. The Orthodox, having separated after 1054, also have not shared in the many synods or councils that have occurred since then in the Western Church.

I hope to see the Western and Eastern Churches reunited soon. They are as close to Catholic without being in full communion as one can get. So to answer, formally, no, the Orthodox Church is not in communion in teaching with their Western counterpart, but they share in the gift of apostolic authority, and their Eucharist is valid to any Catholic that desires communion there when no Catholic church is available. (It would still be up to that Orthodox pastor to allow you to receive, however.)
 
Does anyone know how many actual hours have been spent between the two churchs since Ecumenism started again in the 60’s?
 
Wouldn’t the Eastern Churches in communion with Rome but keep all of the Eastern traditions and practices be considered having the fullness? Therefore the only thing keeping the Eastern Orthodox that are not in communion with Rome from having fullness would be, being in communion with Rome?
 
If you’re asking do we consider ourselves Catholic (even with a capital C!) then yes. I know many who would introduce themselves and in their minds consider themselves an Orthodox Catholic Christian who have no connection to Rome. While I personally wouldn’t go so far as to tell someone “I’m an Orthodox Catholic”, because of the needless confusion it might bring, I easily consider myself as such.

Catholic means encompassing the whole, by which we mean encompassing the whole faith. Obviously we have this in each diocese, let alone when all the diocese are united together, so we are Catholic.

A common…idk, slogan, in Orthodoxy: “We are Orthodox but not Jewish. We are Catholic but not Roman. We are not a denomination, we are Pre-Denominational.”
 
Paul_theApostle said:
From-http://orthodoxwiki.org/One_Holy_Catholic_and_Apostolic_Church

Catholicity is sometimes confused with universality — the idea that the Christian faith is for all men. However, the word was originally used to denote the true Church among a growing horde of heretics who had removed elements from the faith which they disliked, refashioning Christian belief to their pleasure. Catholicity is a qualitative mark: the quality of the whole faith handed down from the apostles.​

Seeing that Rome calls itself the Catholic church,could it be that the Orthodox are not really Catholic(having the quality of the whole faith) because they dont accept or have removed from their faith teachings ,beliefs and dogmas of the “Catholic” Church of Rome?
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Of course! I have the utmost respect for our Orthodox brothers and sisters. We simply are not in communion with them and vice versa. I think it is truly sad and I hope I get to see the day when we will be ONE as before. :gopray2:
 
Cavaradossi said:
Honestly, this question is very provocative, and I wonder if there could be anything gained from discussing it. The Orthodox would say that we contain the fullness of the Christian faith within our Church; the Catholics would disagree and say that they possess the fullness of the Christian faith, while the Orthodox do not. Is there really any point to discussing it further? Things will only get unnecessarily nasty beyond stating the simple fact that the two parties are in disagreement, because any discussion will ultimately degrade into trying to prove that somebody’s Church is lacking in the fullness of the Christian faith.
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You speak rightly. 👍

In Christ,
Andrew
 
I was directing this question towards Roman Catholics and shouldnt have posted it here.

This Non Catholic forum is like an underworld dungeon with predators.

I will ask again elsewhere.
 
Nicea325 said:
Of course! I have the utmost respect for our Orthodox brothers and sisters. We simply are not in communion with them and vice versa. I think it is truly sad and I hope I get to see the day when we will be ONE as before. :gopray2:
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Nice post Nicea and Rawb. And I agree. I also believe much of the fall-out here is a “both are right” situation to a very large degree.

Its very hard for me to ignore the Catholics who left for the Orthodox after V-II yet who had no issue with the CC during V-1. [btw not that I want to open that can of worms].

Let me it put it to everyone this way. I believe the Orthodox Church is the way “back” to Christianity for all Christianity. Its admirable what they have maintained and their position today. There will be many whom from the start “leave” the CC after this, because in Truth, this is about getting “back” for the CC to where its suppose to be. And Benedict is ever so slowly doing this. A very, very gifted man who taught the Orthodox as a Prof.

We all know the “Primacy” and other truths also. Nevertheless Rome needs to have its house in order. And this my brothers and sisters is the “REAL” issue. I do suppose understanding comes for many through here on CAF. However the EO and CC actually do-not have most of these issues being related about here. LOL… though I do believe you would still hear some of the “grandstanding” Spence.

I take no pleasure in asking difficult questions or the nonsense that happen’s here which in truth is just people acting off their feelings, or a total lack of knowledge yet still speaking First. There’s a bit of reading between the lines that must be done in that sense.

Oh these will be real interesting times “if” you see past the change. There “is” only one church my Brothers and Sisters and it will go back together. You may not see it but we are already putting in the work to make this happen. Have Faith, I understand its difficult for many. Let the fire that burns in your heart be hotter than the fire that burns around you, and you will prevail. This is the game-plan and plan B is suffering and pain. In other words, there is no plan B. If somehow you missed how many were martyred last century, that well may give you some idea of where we are at also. Well this century, already we are off to a “more” alarming rate.

Peace, Gary
 
Well, I wasn’t going to speak on that comment, but since you did:thumbsup: Its sort of like saying its crazy here, and than acting more crazy in response. :confused:

God Bless, Gary
 
Cavaradossi said:
Honestly, this question is very provocative, and I wonder if there could be anything gained from discussing it. The Orthodox would say that we contain the fullness of the Christian faith within our Church; the Catholics would disagree and say that they possess the fullness of the Christian faith, while the Orthodox do not. Is there really any point to discussing it further? Things will only get unnecessarily nasty beyond stating the simple fact that the two parties are in disagreement, because any discussion will ultimately degrade into trying to prove that somebody’s Church is lacking in the fullness of the Christian faith./QUOTE

well like all the other charitable posts ,thanks you also Cavarodossi,for your kind words and (name removed by moderator)ut,

I felt ill for hours after i read the non charitable posts on this thread ,

I will just not step into this battlefield again, and will post on other more peaceful respectful places.

Lord be with you
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