Are the Patriarchs of the Hebrew Bible saints?

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Eternaly_Secure said:
Please show me where the Bible says that in heaven there are any other mediators other than Christ.
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I think the debate here is the definition of “mediator”. I don’t think “mediator” means the same as “intercessor”. But you may. I also think that vocabulary is a major difference between Catholics and Protestants. While our ideas may be similar, our wording means totally different things, creating large differences in doctrine.

But even if you believe Jesus is the only one God listens to, can’t Jesus listen to the saints in heaven, relaying their message to God?

Anyway, if Jesus is God, then how can God be a mediator to God? Just a question, don’t jump on me. What I’m asking is philosophical.
 
Snerticus said:
I think the debate here is the definition of “mediator”. I don’t think “mediator” means the same as “intercessor”. But you may. I also think that vocabulary is a major difference between Catholics and Protestants. While our ideas may be similar, our wording means totally different things, creating large differences in doctrine.

But even if you believe Jesus is the only one God listens to, can’t Jesus listen to the saints in heaven, relaying their message to God?

Anyway, if Jesus is God, then how can God be a mediator to God? Just a question, don’t jump on me. What I’m asking is philosophical.
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Jesus Christ is God the Son.
The Bible is silent on saints being intercessors in heaven, so a doctrine cannot be made from it.
There are huge differences in how we understand the Bible and yet I can understand why people who are from other religions think we are the same.
 
Coming back to the question.

Why do we not pray for the intercession of the patriarchs?
 
Eternaly_Secure said:
The Bible is silent on saints being intercessors in heaven, so a doctrine cannot be made from it.
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You called your self a saint. you claim that you can and do intercede.

What is special about you, that God will listen to your intercessory prayers?
 
algebra said:
You called your self a saint. you claim that you can and do intercede.

What is special about you, that God will listen to your intercessory prayers?
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I’m not special, but believers are called saints. The problem is how the World views a saint.
There is not a single thing that makes me special, I am blessed though, but not because of anything I have done, Christ has done it all and saved my soul, I owe everything to him.
 
Eternaly_Secure said:
I don’t know what the catholic church teaches!
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Well, since that was the question that was asked - “What does the Catholic Church teach about …” - and not “What does Eternaly Secure think about …”, perhaps you could have A) not said anything at all, since you didn’t know the answer; or B) said, “I don’t know what the Church teaches, but here is what I think!”
 
Eternaly_Secure said:
I’m not special, but believers are called saints. The problem is how the World views a saint.
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So again let me state this clearly.

You intercede on behalf of others.

You claim that you cannot do this according to your doctrine, because only Jesus can intercede.

So why are you doing it?
 
algebra said:
So again let me state this clearly.

You intercede on behalf of others.

You claim that you cannot do this according to your doctrine, because only Jesus can intercede.

So why are you doing it?
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Can you tell me what the word intercede means to you in detail please?
 
algebra said:
The intercessor prays to God & asks for God’s mercy on behalf of the intercessee.
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Ok, but how do you know that the saints in heaven have any memory of life and family on earth. How do we know anything that is not written in God’s word.
 
Eternaly_Secure said:
Ok, but how do you know that the saints in heaven have any memory of life and family on earth. How do we know anything that is not written in God’s word.
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Did they not rejoice at the coming of Jesus? Are they not alive in the presence of God?
 
Eternaly_Secure said:
How do we know anything that is not written in God’s word.
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I’ve got news for you, buddy. The New Testament didn’t even exist until a few decades after the Resurrection. Parts of the Old Testament were also oral traditions before they were eventually written down.

Sola scriptura presents an incomplete view.
 
Eternaly_Secure said:
Ok, but how do you know that the saints in heaven have any memory of life and family on earth.
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Revelation is full of images of “men” and “saints” in heaven, asking for vengeance and praising God. When one dies, all will be made known to us. I would have to look up passages to find them, but I guess what I would be interested in learning is: how do we know that saints have no memory of anything?
How do we know anything that is not written in God’s word.
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Precisely. The Bible can only tell us so much, not everything. So how can we be sure that what is not written in the Bible is true. That’s where Catholic teaching and Protestant belief conflict the most. The interpretation of what’s in the Bible is one thing, but how can one discern the Truth outside the Bible? Since the Bible is not God, it cannot and does not have all of the answers to everything. So where else can we go to find the Truth if we can’t find what we’re looking for in the Bible? 1 Tim 3:15 should provide you with where to look for the Truth when you can’t find it elsewhere.
 
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