Are the priests and members of TLM parishes outspoken about the evils of abortion, euthanasia, homosexual marriage etc.?

[elts1956]

Hello, I haven’t attended a TLM Mass since its suppression in the 1960s. Okay, if it wasn’t suppressed, why weren’t they still being said in every parish?

To my point, I regularly attend an NO Mass at my Parish and have found the pastor to be very unwilling to stand up for Pro Life (conception to natural death) advocacy in more than a very passive way. I am the Pro Life Chair for this particular parish and have found most Parish members to be completely indifferent or ignorant, to the horrors of what was called the five Intrinsic evils during the last POTUS election.

I am at an impasse as to what to do to wake these parishioners up. I think doctrinal education is up to the individual pastors, although I would love to get my two cents in. But it is very apparent catechesis is lacking here. Please don’t misunderstand me, our Pastor is a great orthodox, meaning conservative liturgy, guy. He has been in the same spot for over twenty years and sad to say, his energy is waning.

So I am wondering if it is any different in parishes where the TLM is said, or are there any NO parishes whose clergy regularly speak out against Intrinsic Evil?

I

 

[Apollos]

Part of the reason I stopped going to NO services is because they went hand-in-hand with sermons whose content was often questionable. At my TLM parish I have had no such problems.

 

[Denise1957]

I attend a TLM (FSSP) parish and our priest is very vocal about speaking out against abortion. In fact, we have a group of parishioners who regularly pray in front of abortion mills, and we are frequently encouraged to help with this. I don’t recall that he has spoken up against euthanasia or homosexual marriage specifically, though. He does, a few times a year, discuss what marriage is, in the proper Catholic context.

 

[Elijah_Baley]

Hello, I haven’t attended a TLM Mass since its suppression in the 1960s. Okay, if it wasn’t suppressed, why weren’t they still being said in every parish?

To my point, I regularly attend an NO Mass at my Parish and have found the pastor to be very unwilling to stand up for Pro Life (conception to natural death) advocacy in more than a very passive way. I am the Pro Life Chair for this particular parish and have found most Parish members to be completely indifferent or ignorant, to the horrors of what was called the five Intrinsic evils during the last POTUS election.

I am at an impasse as to what to do to wake these parishioners up. I think doctrinal education is up to the individual pastors, although I would love to get my two cents in. But it is very apparent catechesis is lacking here. Please don’t misunderstand me, our Pastor is a great orthodox, meaning conservative liturgy, guy. He has been in the same spot for over twenty years and sad to say, his energy is waning.

So I am wondering if it is any different in parishes where the TLM is said, or are there any NO parishes whose clergy regularly speak out against Intrinsic Evil?

I

At my parish we have the curious issue of having a different priest every week come to celebrate TLM. Just before the recent election, we had a firebrand with a booming voice who hadn’t thought to turn off the microphone we usually have reserved for more timid voices in our little chapel. The effect was that every word was an accusation.

For the most part, as we’re in California, we’ll hear a lot about gay marriage and abortion and not so much the more Oregonian non-negotiables.

 

[jonpd]

In my parish severla of the people that attend the TLM are active in the pro-life movement.

However I will say that in the past most of the OF parishes I attended were pro-life also. I recall the very first Catholic mass I attended after I returned to the church the priest spoke against patronizing the local newly opened Target store as they supported Planned Parenthood.

 

[JM3]

There doesn’t seem to be one that I can vote with, as our Pastor does both the OF and EF Masses. He is also very vocal about the teachings of the Church and I have witnessed him protesting out in front of Planned Parenthood. He is a good, holy man, though he will never admit it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hello, I haven’t attended a TLM Mass since its suppression in the 1960s. Okay, if it wasn’t suppressed, why weren’t they still being said in every parish?

Because more people want Mass in their vernacular?

To my point, I regularly attend an NO Mass at my Parish and have found the pastor to be very unwilling to stand up for Pro Life (conception to natural death) advocacy in more than a very passive way. I am the Pro Life Chair for this particular parish and have found most Parish members to be completely indifferent or ignorant, to the horrors of what was called the five Intrinsic evils during the last POTUS election.

I am at an impasse as to what to do to wake these parishioners up. I think doctrinal education is up to the individual pastors, although I would love to get my two cents in. But it is very apparent catechesis is lacking here. Please don’t misunderstand me, our Pastor is a great orthodox, meaning conservative liturgy, guy. He has been in the same spot for over twenty years and sad to say, his energy is waning.

So I am wondering if it is any different in parishes where the TLM is said, or are there any NO parishes whose clergy regularly speak out against Intrinsic Evil?

I

Organize Pro Life Masses and other activities within the parish. In our diocese we have a monthly march for Pro Life.

 

[elts1956]

There doesn’t seem to be one that I can vote with, as our Pastor does both the OF and EF Masses. He is also very vocal about the teachings of the Church and I have witnessed him protesting out in front of Planned Parenthood. He is a good, holy man, though he will never admit it.

Don’t consider it a vote, per se. If you hear Catholic teachng at an OF and TLM, support both.

 

[elts1956]

There doesn’t seem to be one that I can vote with, as our Pastor does both the OF and EF Masses. He is also very vocal about the teachings of the Church and I have witnessed him protesting out in front of Planned Parenthood. He is a good, holy man, though he will never admit it.

Because more people want Mass in their vernacular?

Organize Pro Life Masses and other activities within the parish. In our diocese we have a monthly march for Pro Life.

Can I come join your Parish? I have been Pro Life Chair at this Paish that I attend for almost two years and have seen very little movement., or support. I am “allowed” to put a Pro Life article in the Sunday bulletin once a month, but with restrictions. Other than shouting from the roof of my car after Sunday Mass, it is the only way I can get information out.

 

[White_Tree]

I just wanted to comment about a potential sampling bias in this poll. You posted it in the Traditional Catholicism forum. This forum seems to be overwhelmingly frequented by people who attend the TLM. (By the way, isn’t saying “TLM Mass” sort of redundant, since the “M” in TLM stands for Mass?)

So you’re going to get mostly people who attend the TLM answering your poll, making it look like TLM parishes are more outspoken against these particular topics (which seems to be what the poll results are showing now…).

And just for the record, my parish celebrates the Mass in English, and the priests do talk about those issues you addressed, but it’s not excessive. There are more important things that should be discussed in homilies, and our priests seem to realize that.

 

[elts1956]

I just wanted to comment about a potential sampling bias in this poll. You posted it in the Traditional Catholicism forum. This forum seems to be overwhelmingly frequented by people who attend the TLM. (By the way, isn’t saying “TLM Mass” sort of redundant, since the “M” in TLM stands for Mass?) You are ABSOLUTELY right. It is redundant.

So you’re going to get mostly people who attend the TLM answering your poll, making it look like TLM parishes are more outspoken against these particular topics (which seems to be what the poll results are showing now…).

And just for the record, my parish celebrates the Mass in English, and the priests do talk about those issues you addressed, but it’s not excessive. There are more important things that should be discussed in homilies, and our priests seem to realize that.

My most abject apologies for posting this in the wrong forum? is there a forum for NO goers? Or one for Traditional NO observers? So NO observers aren’t traditional in the sense they espouse the doctrines of the Church?

My Parish also celebrates the Mass in English. I haven’t been to a TLMass since their suppression in the 60s. What “things” are more important than talking about the most basic dogma of the Catholic Church, the Right to Life?

If there is a better forum where you think NO goers will be treated more objectively, please lead me on. I will also post there. i did my best to post this where I “thought” most folks would see it.

Incidentally, this is not a thread of TLMass vs. NO Mass, but an honest trying to assess if the Culture of Life is being promoted and where is it being promoted the most.

 

[elts1956]

I just wanted to comment about a potential sampling bias in this poll. You posted it in the Traditional Catholicism forum. This forum seems to be overwhelmingly frequented by people who attend the TLM. (By the way, isn’t saying “TLM Mass” sort of redundant, since the “M” in TLM stands for Mass?)

So you’re going to get mostly people who attend the TLM answering your poll, making it look like TLM parishes are more outspoken against these particular topics (which seems to be what the poll results are showing now…).

And just for the record, my parish celebrates the Mass in English, and the priests do talk about those issues you addressed, but it’s not excessive. There are more important things that should be discussed in homilies, and our priests seem to realize that.

Because more people want Mass in their vernacular?

Not to be snippy, but did the laity get to VOTE on this? Of course not, silly me.

Organize Pro Life Masses and other activities within the parish. In our diocese we have a monthly march for Pro Life.

 

[elts1956]

Because more people want Mass in their vernacular?

Not to be snippy, but did the laity get to VOTE on this? Of course not, silly me. It was called (sorry) progressivism.

Organize Pro Life Masses and other activities within the parish. In our diocese we have a monthly march for Pro Life.

WOW! I sincerely mean that.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

My most abject apologies for posting this in the wrong forum? is there a forum for NO goers? Or one for Traditional NO observers? So NO observers aren’t traditional in the sense they espouse the doctrines of the Church?

My Parish also celebrates the Mass in English. I haven’t been to a TLMass since their suppression in the 60s. What “things” are more important than talking about the most basic dogma of the Catholic Church, the Right to Life?

If there is a better forum where you think NO goers will be treated more objectively, please lead me on. I will also post there. i did my best to post this where I “thought” most folks would see it.

Incidentally, this is not a thread of TLMass vs. NO Mass, but an honest trying to assess if the Culture of Life is being promoted and where is it being promoted the most.

Thank you SO MUCH for posting this thread and poll!!! I have the EXACT same frustration with my parish and actually, it’s the entire diocese here. I have started moving my contribution to the local pro-life coalition because they are doing the work the church should be helping with, simply because we may as well be Protestants for all the lack of preaching against abortion.

Planned Parenthood recently opened the largest abortion facility in at least the Western hemisphere, perhaps even the world, right here in my city. There has been a deafening silence from the diocese although our Archbishop’s office is less than 3 miles from the abortuary. Very few churches participate in 40 Days for Life, and as far as I know, no one goes to PP except during those campaigns. That facility ought to be ringed round with Catholics every day of the year.

In my opinion our Church has failed to teach or believe in the non-negotiable of abortion. To allow this sin to continue year after year, with 50 million babies sacrificed to the gods of progressivism is something all these “holy” people will have to answer for. I agree with you that when over 3,000 babies die EVERY DAY from abortion, just in this nation, what ELSE is more important? Do people really imagine that God isn’t going to judge us, isn’t already judging us?

I am sick of hearing about how we need to entertain the alien amongst us while every day, the death machine of abortion grinds on and on.

 

[Layman]

Because more people want Mass in their vernacular?

No.

It’s because:

1. Most Catholics thought the old rite was suppressed.
2. Those who didn’t were not supported in their desire to say or hear the rite. Obstacles were often put in their way.
3. With schools becoming increasingly secular and ‘The Spirit Of Vatican II’ permeating the church, any Catholic child post-1975, approximately, would never hear about the old rite.

Thus the old rite was effectively suppressed. Even now, I would say, it is a brave priest who even tries to say the N.O. ad-orientem in his Church. He needs to move slowly and carefully.

Most Catholics still do not know about the old rite, I think. ** I think given that we’ve been taught that the laity are essential to a Mass, it will be hard to wean people over to the idea, and a Mass, where they’re not.**

I read online, and can’t now find the reference, that in 1970 the Catholic Universe, a newspaper, announced that the TLM had been suppressed and people took their cue from that. Easy mistake to make in the light of a new rite being issued, but the effects have been … unhelpful.

 

[White_Tree]

My most abject apologies for posting this in the wrong forum? is there a forum for NO goers? Or one for Traditional NO observers? So NO observers aren’t traditional in the sense they espouse the doctrines of the Church?

I don’t think you need to apologize, and I’m not implying that people who attend a NO Mass don’t visit this forum, nor that such people are not “traditional.” I am merely implying that this particular forum seems to have a higher percentage of people who attend (or at least favor) the TLM than you would find in the average population. This is not something you did “wrong”; it is just a sampling bias, and it should be in the back of your mind when you interpret the results from the poll. That is all.

What “things” are more important than talking about the most basic dogma of the Catholic Church, the Right to Life?

The Church, and the local parish in particular, should be trying to help people get to heaven. There is a lot more to having a strong spirituality than going to church every week and proclaiming yourself to be a Catholic. Furthermore, at least for most people in my church, most of the issues you addressed are rather irrelevant to their own particular spiritual development.

Most of the people in my church are older, married couples. These people are not homosexuals, so it is not really worthwhile to talk to them about the dangers of homosexuality. These people are not going to be having any more children, so talking to them about the importance of not having an abortion is somewhat of a moot point. In most cases, addressing these issues would only serve to point out the kinds of sins that other people commit, and so could potentially feed a sense of superiority for the people in the congregation. Feeling superior to others is in itself a spiritual fault, or even a sin (remember the pharisee in the temple), and so we should avoid encouraging that sentiment in ourselves and others.

That is not to say that these issues should never be addressed from the pulpit. Rather, they should be brought up in moderation, and should take second place to talking about the issues that more directly affect the spiritual growth of the people in the parish. Even as Catholics, we are often very judgmental or we get upset about little, trivial things. They should talk about that. Many of us do not go to confession as often as we should. They should talk about that. Many of us gossip. They should talk about that. Many of us, even though we have been Catholics since we were very young, still do not know how to pray–I mean really pray. As in, being able to clear our minds and open our hearts to God and listen to the still, small voice of the Spirit. They should talk about that.

Jesus said that before we remove the speck of dust from our neighbor’s eye, we should remove the wooden beam from our own (Matthew 7:3). So, at least in my particular parish, it would be better to give first priority to the issues that are affecting our congregation, and second priority to ways in which our congregation might help others to grow in holiness.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Even elderly people can help in the pro-life movement. Your dismissal of people who aren’t young and vital is a little odd…as if these people don’t have grandchildren, friends, etc.! Some of my friends who helped staff our day during 40 Days for Life last spring were retired people. They were happy to come down and pray and were glad to have been asked.

So the priests should tailor their message to the demographics of each parish? Sounds rather…Protestant to me.

 

[elts1956]

I don’t think you need to apologize, and I’m not implying that people who attend a NO Mass don’t visit this forum, nor that such people are not “traditional.” I am merely implying that this particular forum seems to have a higher percentage of people who attend (or at least favor) the TLM than you would find in the average population. This is not something you did “wrong”; it is just a sampling bias, and it should be in the back of your mind when you interpret the results from the poll. That is all.

The Church, and the local parish in particular, should be trying to help people get to heaven. There is a lot more to having a strong spirituality than going to church every week and proclaiming yourself to be a Catholic. Furthermore, at least for most people in my church, most of the issues you addressed are rather irrelevant to their own particular spiritual development.

Most of the people in my church are older, married couples. These people are not homosexuals, so it is not really worthwhile to talk to them about the dangers of homosexuality. These people are not going to be having any more children, so talking to them about the importance of not having an abortion is somewhat of a moot point. In most cases, addressing these issues would only serve to point out the kinds of sins that other people commit, and so could potentially feed a sense of superiority for the people in the congregation. Feeling superior to others is in itself a spiritual fault, or even a sin (remember the pharisee in the temple), and so we should avoid encouraging that sentiment in ourselves and others. Well, lets make sure we don’t make people feel "uncomfortable. That’s the important thing to do, right?

That is not to say that these issues should never be addressed from the pulpit. Rather, they should be brought up in moderation, and should take second place to talking about the issues that more directly affect the spiritual growth of the people in the parish. Even as Catholics, we are often very judgmental or we get upset about little, trivial things. They should talk about that. Many of us do not go to confession as often as we should. They should talk about that. Many of us gossip. They should talk about that. Many of us, even though we have been Catholics since we were very young, still do not know how to pray–I mean really pray. As in, being able to clear our minds and open our hearts to God and listen to the still, small voice of the Spirit. They should talk about that.

Jesus said that before we remove the speck of dust from our neighbor’s eye, we should remove the wooden beam from our own (Matthew 7:3). So, at least in my particular parish, it would be better to give first priority to the issues that are affecting our congregation, and second priority to ways in which our congregation might help others to grow in holiness. One of the best ways to grow in holiness is to help other do so. One cannot live in an ivory tower pretending the rest of the world doesn’t exist.

 

[elts1956]

I don’t think you need to apologize, and I’m not implying that people who attend a NO Mass don’t visit this forum, nor that such people are not “traditional.” I am merely implying that this particular forum seems to have a higher percentage of people who attend (or at least favor) the TLM than you would find in the average population. This is not something you did “wrong”; it is just a sampling bias, and it should be in the back of your mind when you interpret the results from the poll. That is all.

The Church, and the local parish in particular, should be trying to help people get to heaven. There is a lot more to having a strong spirituality than going to church every week and proclaiming yourself to be a Catholic. Furthermore, at least for most people in my church, most of the issues you addressed are rather irrelevant to their own particular spiritual development.

Most of the people in my church are older, married couples. These people are not homosexuals, so it is not really worthwhile to talk to them about the dangers of homosexuality. These people are not going to be having any more children, so talking to them about the importance of not having an abortion is somewhat of a moot point. In most cases, addressing these issues would only serve to point out the kinds of sins that other people commit, and so could potentially feed a sense of superiority for the people in the congregation. Feeling superior to others is in itself a spiritual fault, or even a sin (remember the pharisee in the temple), and so we should avoid encouraging that sentiment in ourselves and others.

That is not to say that these issues should never be addressed from the pulpit. Rather, they should be brought up in moderation, and should take second place to talking about the issues that more directly affect the spiritual growth of the people in the parish. Even as Catholics, we are often very judgmental or we get upset about little, trivial things. They should talk about that. Many of us do not go to confession as often as we should. They should talk about that. Many of us gossip. They should talk about that. Many of us, even though we have been Catholics since we were very young, still do not know how to pray–I mean really pray. As in, being able to clear our minds and open our hearts to God and listen to the still, small voice of the Spirit. They should talk about that.

Jesus said that before we remove the speck of dust from our neighbor’s eye, we should remove the wooden beam from our own (Matthew 7:3). So, at least in my particular parish, it would be better to give first priority to the issues that are affecting our congregation, and second priority to ways in which our congregation might help others to grow in holiness.

[The Church, and the local parish in particular, should be trying to help people get to heaven. There is a lot more to having a strong spirituality than going to church every week and proclaiming yourself to be a Catholic. Furthermore, at least for most people in my church, most of the issues you addressed are rather irrelevant to their own particular spiritual development.

Most of the people in my church are older, married couples. These people are not homosexuals, so it is not really worthwhile to talk to them about the dangers of homosexuality. These people are not going to be having any more children, so talking to them about the importance of not having an abortion is somewhat of a moot point. In most cases, addressing these issues would only serve to point out the kinds of sins that *other people commit, and so could potentially feed a sense of superiority for the people in the congregation. Feeling superior to others is in itself a spiritual fault, or even a sin (remember the pharisee in the temple), and so we should avoid encouraging that sentiment in ourselves and others. Well, lets make sure we don’t make people feel "uncomfortable. That’s the important thing to do, right?

That is not to say that these issues should never be addressed from the pulpit. Rather, they should be brought up in moderation, and should take second place to talking about the issues that more directly affect the spiritual growth of the people in the parish. Even as Catholics, we are often very judgmental or we get upset about little, trivial things. They should talk about that. Many of us do not go to confession as often as we should. They should talk about that. Many of us gossip. They should talk about that. Many of us, even though we have been Catholics since we were very young, still do not know how to pray–I mean really pray. As in, being able to clear our minds and open our hearts to God and listen to the still, small voice of the Spirit. They should talk about that.

Jesus said that before we remove the speck of dust from our neighbor’s eye, we should remove the wooden beam from our own (Matthew 7:3). So, at least in my particular parish, it would be better to give first priority to the issues that are affecting our congregation, and second priority to ways in which our congregation might help others to grow in holiness. One of the best ways to grow in holiness is to help other do so. One cannot live in an ivory tower pretending the rest of the world doesn’t exist.

 

[elts1956]

Continued:
I once taught in Montessori public school which had a high attendence of black children. Being white and middle class economically, I had very little idea of the difficulties these children and their families had to overcome in their lives. Fortunately I had adult friends (black) who were willing to be understanding and very helpful in educating me. When I returned to a private Montessori school to teach, I wanted to introduce some of the things I learned about that particular black culture to which I was exposed to the children in this private school. Mostly white, mainly because of location. I was told “they didn’t have that problem there”. I persisted though and did introduce at least the “idea” of black culture to the children, ie. holidays, Kwanzaa, soul food etc. There was no way, of course that I could transfer the angst I felt when working with my friends “of color” to the white community where I was then teaching.

Now isn’t the answer I got from that white administratin identical to what you are saying because your parish consists of “older” “married” “non Homosexual” folks. Abortion, euthanasia, etc. are not a problem in your parish, so it is of minimal concern. This when we have the most pro death POTUS and administration in the history of the US. Your attitude shocks me. Your parish needs to get its head out of the sand like a lot of other parishes, such as the one to which I belong and become aware of the Intrinsic evils being foisted on us as a Christian nation and a Christian Country.

I do agree with your assessment that people need to receive the sacrament of Reconciliation more often, make good use of receivng the Holy Eucharist and all Sacraments. These are the basis of all holiness. However talking about being judgemental, loving one another, gossiping etc. are issues to be dealt with in our examination of Conscience which we should do every day in preparation for the Sacrament of Reconciliation. These are at best venial sins. Intrinsic evils are mortal and must be fought by “everyone”, young, old, any age, any religion.