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Timbothefiveth
Guest
I’m confused on the definition of a work. Are the sacraments a work?
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Godfollower
Guest
If they are, then so is kneeling down and saying, “Lord Jesus, I accept you into my life as my personal Lord and Savior.”I’m confused on the definition of a work. Are the sacraments a work?
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stbruno
Guest
youtube.com/watch?v=daSbZyh9BWo talks about our Catholic catechism
and there is a specific section on sacraments:
Para. 1131: The sacraments are efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us. The visible rites by which the sacraments are celebrated signify and make present the graces proper to each sacrament.
usccb.org/catechism/text/parttwotoc.shtml
and there is a specific section on sacraments:
Para. 1131: The sacraments are efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us. The visible rites by which the sacraments are celebrated signify and make present the graces proper to each sacrament.
usccb.org/catechism/text/parttwotoc.shtml
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Works are all the things you do whether good, bad, or ugly. So as sacraments require your participation yes they are a piece of your works. So it is clearly what you believe plus what you do that determines the final fate.I’m confused on the definition of a work. Are the sacraments a work?
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Timbothefiveth
Guest
Isn’t a work different from an act? Or am I getting confused here?Works are all the things you do whether good, bad, or ugly
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Well and action can be a mortal sin, venial sin, neutral, or a moral good so actions which are neutral are of no significance.Isn’t a work different from an act? Or am I getting confused here?
I’m confused on the definition of a work. Are the sacraments a work?
While we do have to participate in the sacraments, the One who is really doing the “work” is God since the sacraments are a primary means by which He bestows his grace on us.
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Timbothefiveth
Guest
I’m still not sure I understand what a work is. For instance, James 2:20 says that
Is he refering to good deeds like giving alms-giving or is he referring to stuff like the sacraments? Or both?But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
All plus more, giving alms is a big plus, so is baptism, confession, eucharist, confirmatiom, marriage, Holy Orders, and last rites. But that is not all the works, road rage, cussing, and diapering babies is in there too. It is every thing you do of a moral significance.I’m still not sure I understand what a work is. For instance, James 2:20 says that
Is he refering to good deeds like giving alms-giving or is he referring to stuff like the sacraments? Or both?
Hope that helps
R
ryanoneil
Guest
There is a difference between “works of the law” and “good works.” “Works of the law” are apart from God’s grace. We cannot obligate God to give us grace like an employee obligates his employer to pay wages. Faith must be behind our “good works” in order for it to be considered a work of grace; otherwise, it is a work of law or obligation.
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Ignatius
Guest
No, the sacraments are a gift from Jesus Himself. Receiving a gift can’t be a work otherwise, receiving the gift of salvation would be a work.I’m confused on the definition of a work. Are the sacraments a work?
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anglocat
Guest
Most of the no-works-argument is based on “It is by grace that you have been saved”. This leaves some Christians thinking that they do not need to do anything afterwards. I am an average churchgoing Anglican so I will try to put this in my own not so sufficient words.I’m confused on the definition of a work. Are the sacraments a work?
The Catholic Church is a very small community here in my country, so most of the time this verse is normally quoted against Anglicans.
I am not sure if trying to figure out what is ‘works” and what is not will help your predicament. My view is that, it is indeed by grace alone that we know Christ and are saved. We did not work for it at all. But now that we do know him and still in the process of knowing him, we do need to demonstrate faith that produces works (the sacraments; loving one’s neighbor, loving God etc). How do we claim to love God if we refuse to come together with other Christians and take part in the Sacraments? Being a Christian is actually like in the army, we report for duty.
J
John_one_one
Guest
Works are some form of action “sacraments” that is preformed with the expectation that God will respond in a predetermined manner, or are necessary in this case to please God.
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Thing
Guest
Sacraments are like the works we do on the sabbath; Picking corn when we’re hungry, and curing the withered hand which is stretched out to you…
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f_Paul_Francis
Guest
M
Dear TImbo,
I was struck by your question as I wasn’t at all sure I understood out of what context you might be asking it…
I have to begin with the assumption that you do understand the difference between mere human virtue and that which is supernatural, because the actor is operating in the state of grace.
Beginning with that, we see a difference between acts which have but a natural reward and those which merit - because Christ has created such an economy - an increase in our heavenly treasure.
Right use of the sacraments is certainly meritorious, particularly as their approach seeks God’s grace, which is evidence of supernatural faith.
In scholastic terminology, the defense of the validity of the sacraments, even if effected by a sinful priest was “ex opere operato” - meaning that one could depend upon a sacrament’s being accomplished by the very fact that the rite was rightly executed, not whether the celebrant was himself in the state of grace.
So, reception of the sacraments (and, when the priest IS holy, also their administration!) is a “work,” but one that accrues to supernatural life, not merely a human act.
It is a major problem in our current moment that the differences between human faith in God and supernatural Faith have been blurred; likewise those between actual and sanctifying grace. Once those categories have been clarified, a lot of confusion lifts.
Dear TImbo,
I was struck by your question as I wasn’t at all sure I understood out of what context you might be asking it…
I have to begin with the assumption that you do understand the difference between mere human virtue and that which is supernatural, because the actor is operating in the state of grace.
Beginning with that, we see a difference between acts which have but a natural reward and those which merit - because Christ has created such an economy - an increase in our heavenly treasure.
Right use of the sacraments is certainly meritorious, particularly as their approach seeks God’s grace, which is evidence of supernatural faith.
In scholastic terminology, the defense of the validity of the sacraments, even if effected by a sinful priest was “ex opere operato” - meaning that one could depend upon a sacrament’s being accomplished by the very fact that the rite was rightly executed, not whether the celebrant was himself in the state of grace.
So, reception of the sacraments (and, when the priest IS holy, also their administration!) is a “work,” but one that accrues to supernatural life, not merely a human act.
It is a major problem in our current moment that the differences between human faith in God and supernatural Faith have been blurred; likewise those between actual and sanctifying grace. Once those categories have been clarified, a lot of confusion lifts.
P
PJM
Guest
***An “act” is something someones does, in this same sense a “work” is something someone does.=Timbothefiveth;5531400]Isn’t a work different from an act? Or am I getting confused here?
But they are synonymous terms as applied to both acts and Works* as actions.
Work [singular] pertains to the process of laboring for a living. So “work” is seperate from “works” and “acts.” **
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Ignatius
Guest
No, the sacraments are a gift from Jesus Himself. Receiving a gift can’t be a work otherwise, receiving the gift of salvation would be a work.Works are some form of action “sacraments” that is preformed with the expectation that God will respond…God.
M
MarcoPolo
Guest
I agree with SMHW and Ignatius (maybe others too, I just skimmed…). The work imparted in the sacraments is the work of Christ. We exercise the “obedience” of faith as Paul or Peter might say, when we submit and go to receive these channels of grace. Our obedience in receiving them could be considered a work, and it would be a work done in faith, and thus sanctifying.
J
JustaServant
Guest
When I was a Baptist, baptism was viewed as something that we do Godwards, a ‘witness’.
In truth, Sacraments are something that God does manwards and are all of grace. Our response is simply faith in the “word” from God that is signified by the sacrament. Baptism isn’t an act of "wet witness’ it is to quote both Augustine a “sensible” word from God which is valid totally because he uttered it and efectual when we act as if his word is true (faith).
In truth, Sacraments are something that God does manwards and are all of grace. Our response is simply faith in the “word” from God that is signified by the sacrament. Baptism isn’t an act of "wet witness’ it is to quote both Augustine a “sensible” word from God which is valid totally because he uttered it and efectual when we act as if his word is true (faith).
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adriancombe
Guest
According to Jesus’ own definition, everything He commanded us to do, including believing in Him, is a work. John 6:I’m confused on the definition of a work. Are the sacraments a work?
(6:28) They said therefore unto him: What shall we do, that we may work the works of God? (6:29) Jesus answered, and said to them: This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he hath sent.
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