Are the things I draw morally objectionable?

[CesarAugustus]

I would say that such an image of Christianity, like a lot of atheistic and secular perceptions, is but a caricature, a straw man.

Christianity isn’t about feeling happy and upbeat. You can’t sum up thousands of years of theology, philosophy, spiritual, and moral teachings into something like that. Our Faith allows room for all kinds of temperaments, forms of spirituality, and even methods of prayer.

In the more specific case of you and me, acknowledging the darker parts of life can actually be a sign of maturity. Too much emphasis on what’s bright and cheery, when the truth becomes too much of a contrary, is a recipe for delusion.

Well said!

I was reading some months ago in a Catholic blog (Traditional), two pieces called, the Catholic Zombie’s Decalogue, and the Neocon Dictionary, that adress that modern notion of Catholic faith as a state of permanent hapiness and denial of crisis.

From the first piece:

1. The Catholic Zombie has compulsive joy. Ignores sadness, the resistance of matter, the true suffering. Moreover, he denies it. He denies, in general, reality and his reality. Everything is wonderful, because they live in Disneyland … Catholic Disneyland.

Blessings!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I agree with you on all of that. The thing is that I don’t have to say “killing is cool”. It’s so clearly implied. Ok so the picture is just an image of your emotions correct? Miserable emotions. So the picture IS the emotion, misery. So the picture is misery, and you are giving to people or selling it to people and sharing your misery. Ha you know what they say “Misery loves company.” And when I say nude women I mean porno, which is sinful.

Would you further say that sharing misery is a bad thing? Because if it is, then wouldn’t doing the Stations of the Cross fall into that category?

I like to tell people who are miserable (and unlike some I actually follow through), “share with me your sadness and I’ll share with you my joy.”

Alan

 

[raaucoin]

I like to tell people who are miserable (and unlike some I actually follow through), “share with me your sadness and I’ll share with you my joy.”

Alan

that’s beautiful, Alan. You just gave me the something to say to a friend in need to whom i wasn’t sure of what to say. And yes! I really will follow through with it.

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

And what if it is? God answers prayers but the lack of immediate effect doesn’t do anyone favors without the gift of having a creative outlet.

I said ONLY. I hope it isn’t your only way of finding solace. I hope she can find more things that comfort her or make her happy.

Hey madamoiselle, all I got left to say is, if the pictures begin to have a negative effect on you, then don’t do it. If they put a wall between you and God, don’t do it, just stay Catholic and you’ll be fine.

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

Would you further say that sharing misery is a bad thing? Because if it is, then wouldn’t doing the Stations of the Cross fall into that category?

I like to tell people who are miserable (and unlike some I actually follow through), “share with me your sadness and I’ll share with you my joy.”

Alan

Perhaps I should rethink this. But the Stations of The Cross is about Jesus, these drawings are about just horror. And apparently if we try to share joy we have no empathy.

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

Hey you know what! Ask a priest. Whatever he tells you is what I think you should do. Since he is a priest, he can tell you if they are morally objectional. Now I’m gone from this thread, see y’all later!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Perhaps I should rethink this. But the Stations of The Cross is about Jesus, these drawings are about just horror. And apparently if we try to share joy we have no empathy.

What are you saying? I think sharing joy is just as empathetic as sharing sorrow. Were you wondering if that’s what I meant?

Sometimes I just look at “passion” as “passion.” People all have their own “passion” aka “crosses” to bear, and there are joyful, luminous, and other mysteries, not just sorrow. I think mysteries are also shared by empathy, because if you could explain them they wouldn’t be mysteries.

Alan

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

What are you saying? I think sharing joy is just as empathetic as sharing sorrow. Were you wondering if that’s what I meant?

Sometimes I just look at “passion” as “passion.” People all have their own “passion” aka “crosses” to bear, and there are joyful, luminous, and other mysteries, not just sorrow. I think mysteries are also shared by empathy, because if you could explain them they wouldn’t be mysteries.

Alan

No lost wanderer said that us trying to share joy is telling her to do away with what she has to cope with and that we have no empathy.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I said ONLY. I hope it isn’t your only way of finding solace. I hope she can find more things that comfort her or make her happy.

Again, so what if it is? Saying ‘only’ is a bit of a stretch actually but that doesn’t mean anything else will live up to your, and if you pardon me saying, happy-pappy standards.

I have ‘other’ things besides creative endeavors but that doesn’t mean these are any different.

Ultimately, my question is so what? What if we find solace in things you don’t? Who are you to say “Do as I do”?

Hey madamoiselle, all I got left to say is, if the pictures begin to have a negative effect on you, then don’t do it. If they put a wall between you and God, don’t do it, just stay Catholic and you’ll be fine.

I’m sorry but from what I gleaned from your statements so far, I don’t think you’re a good judge of what’s ‘negative’ and what’s ‘positive’.

No lost wanderer said that us trying to share joy is telling her to do away with what she has to cope with and that we have no empathy.

You can’t share what you don’t have. That’s exactly why I say such calls to do things positively actually lack empathy.

 

[JNdoum]

Ah but it’s that same emphasis on those concepts of hope and light that becomes abused and distorted into justifying delusions. A balance must be struck. I’m sure prayer helps in resolution (I’ve experienced this myself) but something has to deal with the immediate need. People who use art and literature to express that should have a right to an outlet. In fact, it’s one more demonstration that these are gifts from God.

Indeed this is the proof of what I just spoke of in my earlier post. Already you have one person here who doesn’t understand what your art meant. Multiply this several times and you’ll get my experience. If people get on your nerves, feel free to explain. Don’t make it a habit though as it will burn you out.

Personally, I’m more partial to using fire and fantastical imagery in my writing. Mine is the simple art of writing out fictional counterparts to my thoughts and to the events of my life. I’d wager Holy there would think I glorified killing, vigilantism, and vagrancy if I ever posted my work here.

The truth though is they symbolize something too.

1. My author avatar vanquishing a large and malicious nemesis - That’s me wishing to hand the killing blow to all the injustice in my life.
2. Scenes of an adventuring party taking down a large foe - My hopes of getting close companions to help me in my struggles
3. Dreams of wandering the land, exploring new places, and wielding a power that only exists in my daydreams - There are times when this world bores me and for good reasons. Can’t blame me for wanting an adventurous quest.

I think you may be going a bit too far with your defence of art here. Heaven knows, I understand; I am also a writer, and I am unfortunately fascinated with the concept of human evil, which disturbs some people. True, my message is not to glorify or to promote evil, rather to show my idea that evil is always caused, and not born, and I usually use it to show my belief that villains are people too, who need love and forgiveness. These aren’t bad concepts, but some people think I take the whole evil aspect too far.

The point that I am trying to make is, while it’s frustrating when people misunderstand your message, or when people over analyse it like crazy, like every Literature teacher ever produced often does, But then again, it is sort of bad to lean towards deifying art to some ultimate good. To be honest, while I love art, art is a past time, when compared to God, who is my life. It is not really too much to expect to allow God to be present in your artwork. You can do this without even specifically mentioning Him. Despite this, the Lord will shine through your work. But I believe this is getting irrelevant to the issue.

The thing is, art is amazing. It can be one of the best things you have going on in your life; but it’s no God, and it certainly isn’t a human being. Other people matter more to me than my art does, or any of my passions. So while crusading for the arts is (I know, I must have said this around 50 times by now) nice, it shouldn’t be done when you tend to come off as you have over the course of this thread.

I must admit, you were a bit rude, in the sense that you seemed to say that everyone else and their opinions don’t matter because they encroach upon your opinions. It may not be what you intended, but it is how you appeared. Please realise that the people whose opinions differ from yours are not enemies, they are friends, who are just saying what they think. It may be necessary to be a bit stern at times, but it is concerning when you begin to trade rudeness for rudeness.

So I guess I’m trying to say that a bit of care may be in order for this topic, as perhaps you are too invested in it. On another note, the whole “live and let live” attitude is all well and good, but it is always good to allow people to voice their concerns, and listen to them. I try to do that as a rule, as one can never know everything, and the person might just have something valuable to say.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think you may be going a bit too far with your defence of art here. Heaven knows, I understand; I am also a writer, and I am unfortunately fascinated with the concept of human evil, which disturbs some people. True, my message is not to glorify or to promote evil, rather to show my idea that evil is always caused, and not born, and I usually use it to show my belief that villains are people too, who need love and forgiveness. These aren’t bad concepts, but some people think I take the whole evil aspect too far.

Meh, I think we might have to disagree on personal preferences here. I don’t see why there is any need to choose so uneasily between a villain’s redemption or demise. For me, so long as justice has been served, that doesn’t matter.

Then again, those are just my preferences. Moving on.

The point that I am trying to make is, while it’s frustrating when people misunderstand your message, or when people over analyse it like crazy, like every Literature teacher ever produced often does, But then again, it is sort of bad to lean towards deifying art to some ultimate good. To be honest, while I love art, art is a past time, when compared to God, who is my life.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. For one thing, I’m not advocating the devaluation of God over art. Could you please clarify?

It is not really too much to expect to allow God to be present in your artwork. You can do this without even specifically mentioning Him. Despite this, the Lord will shine through your work. But I believe this is getting irrelevant to the issue.

That’s not what I’m arguing about at all. Look, I myself am not afraid to express truths such as divine justice or the fruits of Christian kindness. I’m not eager to make it so blatantly religious either. The thing is however, I do not expect such truths to shine through for all. That’s why I’m bringing things like reader-response theory and other post-modern analysis techniques. They’re to stand as proof that we should be a bit realistic here.

I must admit, you were a bit rude, in the sense that you seemed to say that everyone else and their opinions don’t matter because they encroach upon your opinions. It may not be what you intended, but it is how you appeared. Please realise that the people whose opinions differ from yours are not enemies, they are friends, who are just saying what they think. It may be necessary to be a bit stern at times, but it is concerning when you begin to trade rudeness for rudeness.

Look in my defense, I find it rude every time someone likes to make presumptions about art that are just simply not true. And once again, everything I’ve stated isn’t entirely opinion. It’s based on facts (people view art in strange ways, over analyze, and everything else you yourself have admitted).

Heck, I even make a small apology when I know what I say is going to sound as rude. But seriously, I find it irritating that some people presume to speak for our faith when making statements that aren’t well-informed. We’ve shot ourselves so many times in the foot, why do we keep doing it?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Anybody who fears being exposed to ideas and human experiences that are “morally objectionable,” has no business reading the Bible. It is chock full of more human filth and immorality than any art gallery.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Anybody who fears being exposed to ideas and human experiences that are “morally objectionable,” has no business reading the Bible. It is chock full of more human filth and immorality than any art gallery.

You said it. Some of the skits and stories would actually make for a good, raw seinen… or worse.

 

[wcknight]

This type of art is definitely not for everyone. BUT I think there is value to expressing such emotions. I’m a very upbeat person, so I like my art whimsical and light. I can’t see myself hanging anything like this in my living room or where ever.

However, people need to see reality. Showing the world how sometimes it is brutal and scary can be a good thing. Abortion, war, terorrism are very real everyday occurances, and IF they are not brought to light for the horror and violence that they are, folks can become complacent and put them off as something that we do not have to deal with.

Maybe if more folks saw how horrific, war, and evil and suffering can be, they would be less inclined to inflict it upon others or upon themselves. I think we run into bigger problems when we glorify war and suffering than if we show it for what it is…, not vey pleasant things to deal with.

 

[Gods_Peace]

If it wasn’t for my family’s remarks, I would be less aware of how people might have issues with my work. Frankly, I’ve almost lost touch with what might be considered “scary” or not, after years of immersing myself in such media…Also, MyaKey, the link to the article on horror was indeed interesting, and reassuring. I’m glad that you understand that I can’t just change my style and way of drawing. “…an artist has to like the way their image looks to even be interested in it.” This exactly.

I am however, really willing to read all your differing opinions and consider them. I feel better that most of you don’t find it morally wrong. I was just thinking that drawing these things, and viewing them, causes me to dwell on and perpetuate the negative issues that draw me to these topics; and so this might somehow be opposed to the Christian virtue of hope.

Strong atheists tend to like my work…and I theirs. I mentioned that I enjoy looking at macabre work, particularly on the net, and I frequently have the problem of running into occult-themed works, some of which not only mock and multilate Christianity but promote the opposite. Sometimes I worry I run the risk that I endanger my faith, and soul, with my interest in dark art.

You do danger your soul. So if you value Gods Gift of life Then I would change your direction to be more about expressing your faith. I’m praying for you.

 

[Gods_Peace]

i have a fascination admittedly with dark, macabre art, but i don’t consider my drawings to be such. Lately though, i feel as if my obsession with grotesque art, which often crosses into the occult, is a kind of contradiction to my faith, like an obstinate despair.

I tend to draw most when i’m not in the best mood. Semi-nudes, dismembered limbs, injury. I used to draw a lot of violent/gory art but grew out of that. My family often objects to the things i draw and have called my work scary, morbid, unstable, etc. Well, anyway, here are a few of my recent pieces: fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/149/c/c/bunch_by_missstreelight-d51k8q7.png

are my obsession with macabre art, and the spirit of the things i draw, wrong in any way?

obviously!!! I"m not being judgemental but come on!

 

[edward_george]

You do danger your soul. So if you value Gods Gift of life Then I would change your direction to be more about expressing your faith. I’m praying for you.

I’m interested, could you please elaborate on why this is? There’s nothing inherently sinful about macabre art–if there were, the Church would not have been using it for all these years. Ever seen a nice set of 17th century Requiem vestments? Or most of the paintings from the Renaissance? Or any depictions of the Crucifixion?

-ACEGC

 

[Gods_Peace]

I’m interested, could you please elaborate on why this is? There’s nothing inherently sinful about macabre art–if there were, the Church would not have been using it for all these years. Ever seen a nice set of 17th century Requiem vestments? Or most of the paintings from the Renaissance? Or any depictions of the Crucifixion?

-ACEGC

If you have any common sense at all you would understand that this lady is probably suffering from severe depression, and is in a really dark place. You sir, need to take a step back and observe this from a child’s perspective. We are supposed to be childlike to things that are evil, and fully grown and mature in everything that is good. That means OP needs to look at more Christian like artwork where she can actually express her faith and artwork in a light that will keep her growing healthily toward Christ. God Bless.

 

[edward_george]

If you have any common sense at all you would understand that this lady is probably suffering from severe depression, and is in a really dark place. You sir, need to take a step back and observe this from a child’s perspective. We are supposed to be childlike to things that are evil, and fully grown and mature in everything that is good. That means OP needs to look at more Christian like artwork where she can actually express her faith and artwork in a light that will keep her growing healthily toward Christ. God Bless.

First off, my common sense tells me that since I am not a psychologist, I am not qualified to diagnose severe depression, and that if I were qualified I would not be able to do so over the internet without an in-person consultation.

Secondly, you didn’t quite address anything I said. I point out to you that this life is not all happiness and rainbows, that sometimes there are dark times, and that part of knowing Christ isn’t just knowing him when we’re feeling all happy and gleeful. Sometimes we hit our lowest lows and see only darkness, and in those times being able to seek him is all the more important. “Life on earth is a warfare,” said Leo XIII in his prayer for peace, and I seem to recall the Salve Regina mentioning something about a “vale of tears.” I hardly think that either the author of the Salve nor the Holy Father of blessed memory were clinically depressed or in need of your admonition to see the world as a child does, at least as you think a child does. Most children (no, all children) get scared of things. Sometimes things aren’t so sunny and wonderful for a child, and neither are they for anyone else. Being a Christian means embracing the Cross, as ugly and shameful and nasty as it is–because it is the most beautiful thing in the world.

Third, I would appreciate if you would consider your tone in how you responded to me. I find it interesting that you exhort me to be childlike and Christlike, and yet open with “If you had any common sense at all…” I hold no grudge and consider all forgiven, but please consider that in the future. This should be a discussion about our faith which helps others to learn and grow–and not necessarily something meant to be taken personally. I meant no personal offense and I apologize if I came off as such.

-ACEGC