Are the things I draw morally objectionable?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MademoiselleRue
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Magdelaine, for the most part my drawings were just to express my feelings about things that were going on. I have seen work similar to the paintings of little girls with guns you mention…When I draw, I aim to create something that has a very real and personal significance to myself, not something that sounds as mindless as those. Perhaps my work appears similarly hollow, but for me each piece meant something.
 
“So I don’t mean this to sound rude or judgmental at all, I’m simply just curious… but for someone such as yourself, who draws depressing things, seems down a lot of the time and has depressing quote in your about me, how can you believe in god?..Only people I know who believe in god are like, very upbeat, zestful for life and do everything ‘right’ to have a good after life or whatever. The kind of suicidal attitude sounds kind of sinful, no? … I’m sorry. You know I’m not asking this to be rude or mean, though I’m terrible at wording myself.”
Oh I actually have a well rehearsed response to that. Just say the word and I’ll write it out here when I have the spare time. 😉
I didn’t expect a thread about my drawings to be so controversial, and I’m sorry for any contention I may have caused…LostWanderer, I think that the type of audience a work attracts reflects at least something about the work. I found the TheRealJuliane’s comments thoughtful and helpful in thinking out my concern about my art.
I recommend you do some studying on the topics I just cited. What you’re describing is actually an illusion. From my experience, I’ve seen a lot of things undergo wild and wacky interpretations of the same object but from different perspectives. You are free to express yourself but the sort of audience you attract isn’t so much in your control as you’d like.
 
Sorry but posts like this make me gag. I’ve seen worse things than what the OP posted and there’s nothing wrong with venting through your talent.

I’m no artist but as a writer, I’ve done something similar. Feelings of anger, hate, and my own internal cries for justice have managed to get a nice long, mix of monologue and bloody action scenes out of me.

Telling people to draw something more positive when the mood doesn’t suit it does nothing but make a mockery out of someone’s misery.
Hey now I’m all for drawing your emotions, but these pictures are morally objectional if you ask me. When I get an erection I don’t draw naked women. That would be morally objectional wouldn’t it? I am a writer too so I know that (at least with me) 95% of my writing is from my emotions. My friend was making a mockery of the person’s misery, he was trying to help raise the person’s spirits. Drawing pictures like these really isn’t a good idea because they are really bad for your psyche, or at least mine.
 
I was thinking qbout this for awhile and i thought, you like to draw pics of people suffering and such, draw Jesus on the cross! Maybe perhaps you draw martyrs like St. Peter. You could draw pictures of people in the coliseum perhaps? Also, I must say that you are very talented. You know I had a similar problem when I was a Protestant. I am a good rapper. I don’t like to brag, but I am a good rapper. I started realizing though how all my stuff was just trash though. It was all about murder. Usually it was to pump me up. Listen to Eminem’s “Won’t Back Down”. It just pumps me up, gets me to feeling super-human. I finally realized that I would tell people I was Christian, and then go rap about killing people. I knew I had to change.
 
Oh I actually have a well rehearsed response to that. Just say the word and I’ll write it out here when I have the spare time. 😉

I recommend you do some studying on the topics I just cited. What you’re describing is actually an illusion. From my experience, I’ve seen a lot of things undergo wild and wacky interpretations of the same object but from different perspectives. You are free to express yourself but the sort of audience you attract isn’t so much in your control as you’d like.
What would you say? I simply said that just because I believe in God doesn’t mean that I can’t find life difficult at times, and I use my art to help me during these times, all the while knowing from my Catholic faith that, in the end, everything wil be okay.

It’s true that a piece of work can be interpreted as something very different from what the artist orgially intended, but perhaps certain kinds lend themselves more easily to such? Besides, that my work attracts an atheistic audience is not the only reason I’m asking. I wondered if the messages expressed in my work contradicts Catholic ideals.
Hey now I’m all for drawing your emotions, but these pictures are morally objectional if you ask me. When I get an erection I don’t draw naked women. That would be morally objectional wouldn’t it? I am a writer too so I know that (at least with me) 95% of my writing is from my emotions. My friend was making a mockery of the person’s misery, he was trying to help raise the person’s spirits. Drawing pictures like these really isn’t a good idea because they are really bad for your psyche, or at least mine.
I was thinking qbout this for awhile and i thought, you like to draw pics of people suffering and such, draw Jesus on the cross! Maybe perhaps you draw martyrs like St. Peter. You could draw pictures of people in the coliseum perhaps? Also, I must say that you are very talented. You know I had a similar problem when I was a Protestant. I am a good rapper. I don’t like to brag, but I am a good rapper. I started realizing though how all my stuff was just trash though. It was all about murder. Usually it was to pump me up. Listen to Eminem’s “Won’t Back Down”. It just pumps me up, gets me to feeling super-human. I finally realized that I would tell people I was Christian, and then go rap about killing people. I knew I had to change.
I respect your opinion that my work is morally objectionable. Unfortunately I don’t quite get the connection between having an erection and drawing naked women? Drawing nudes isn’t necessarily sinful, though it might be an occasion of sin for some people…As I said earlier, I feel uncomfortable handling religious subjects, because I’m afraid it would be kind of hypocritical… Did your rap glorify killing people? I personally didn’t see my art as promoting or glorfying any immoral behavior. I’m not asking people to hang themselves on nooses because I drew a noose, or to kill birds because I drew dead birds. The noose was included to express despair and sadness, and the birds, for me, symbolized an inability to rise above a trying situation.
 
I have a fascination admittedly with dark, macabre art, but I don’t consider my drawings to be such. Lately though, I feel as if my obsession with grotesque art, which often crosses into the occult, is a kind of contradiction to my faith, like an obstinate despair.

I tend to draw most when I’m not in the best mood. Semi-nudes, dismembered limbs, injury. I used to draw a lot of violent/gory art but grew out of that. My family often objects to the things I draw and have called my work scary, morbid, unstable, etc. Well, anyway, here are a few of my recent pieces: fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/149/c/c/bunch_by_missstreelight-d51k8q7.png

Are my obsession with macabre art, and the spirit of the things I draw, wrong in any way?
Remember folks, the question was not about style or ability as an artist. In the plastic arts, there can be a very high degree of technical and stylistic ability and great issues with the morality of the work. Visual arts are not necessarily self explanatory either so one must use great consideration in the creative process. The question, presumably about these images in particular, was about their morality. I don’t think there is a steadfast rule in many cases. Obviously if something is pornographic, sexually graphic in a way that demeans the person, depicts the taking of pleasure in causing violence, than it’s morally wrong. You mention dismemberment. That is disturbing and I think that could be a moral concern in your art, again, as it sounds as though it demeans, degrades and objectifies the human body in a violent way. The occult, the demonic, apart from a theological context, presents moral issues. If you are looking at art in the context of your faith, you have a responsibility to those who view your art not to present stumbling blocks to their faith and chastity. Your talents are God given and should glorify God or put into question those things which detract from the glory of God. As a Catholic and an artist and poet myself, the powers of my creativity are not license to create whatever I will, but what I should. As a Christian, I don’t believe that art need simply be a place to give voice to every thought that gives me trouble. Some things are best resolved with our Lord. Use your art to give hope, to demonstrate hope, and show light in a world of darkness. Never let your art and ability be an offense against the hope, mercy and beauty of God.

*For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with might through his Spirit in the inner man, and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have power to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fulness of God.

-Ephesians 3:14-19*
 
I read the whole thread (a few posts I kind of skimmed but pretty much got it all) BEFORE I looked at the pictures.

THEN I looked at the pictures.

What is the big deal? It shows blood. It beautifully depicts something that not everyone would think is beautiful – like what good art doesn’t? And to the posters who freaked out and said OMG I better not look at them anymore – you were warned that others think it’s objectionable. If these things freak you out, why did you follow the link? That’s like going to an R-rated movie and later gasping for breath because you heard a bad word or saw a woman with her shirt open. I’m not saying these images are R-rated. I’m saying if you’re warned something might be objectionable, and you see others on the thread talking about them being bloody, etc… then don’t blame the images because they didn’t take the link to show themselves to you; you did. And they weren’t even close to being as graphic as I’d have guessed from this thread.

And to the OP … do NOT worry about your thread being “controversial.” People on this forum can be highly contentious over anything – no matter how big or trivial. You take what helps, and let the rest go.

To those who think art should not be bloody because it isn’t pleasant – and thereby takes us away from God, what do you think of this?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...Fpffb4ordQwdlGw6F9XJC1KYTrzVps_JASia7bVuuZS3w

Life isn’t always pretty little daises and bunny rabbits. Artists have helped the entire civilization come to grips with that.

My personal opinion is that you are inspired and you should continue to go where you are drawn in your art. If you try to sell them and can’t, you might need to “compromise” like many artists unfortunately do. Are they displayed somewhere those who don’t like them have to look at them? If not, they don’t have to.

And as far as Christians being offended by pics atheists like? They don’t have to like it, and it they are offended that’s their problem. If Catholics want some art to complain about as being morally objectionable, let them complain about the Sistine Chapel. Take a virtual tour of the ceiling and you will find violence and immorality – not to mention many penises clearly depicted. God forbid this artist would have drawn anything like that!

Alan
 
What would you say? I simply said that just because I believe in God doesn’t mean that I can’t find life difficult at times, and I use my art to help me during these times, all the while knowing from my Catholic faith that, in the end, everything wil be okay.
I would say that such an image of Christianity, like a lot of atheistic and secular perceptions, is but a caricature, a straw man.

Christianity isn’t about feeling happy and upbeat. You can’t sum up thousands of years of theology, philosophy, spiritual, and moral teachings into something like that. Our Faith allows room for all kinds of temperaments, forms of spirituality, and even methods of prayer.

In the more specific case of you and me, acknowledging the darker parts of life can actually be a sign of maturity. Too much emphasis on what’s bright and cheery, when the truth becomes too much of a contrary, is a recipe for delusion.
It’s true that a piece of work can be interpreted as something very different from what the artist orgially intended, but perhaps certain kinds lend themselves more easily to such? Besides, that my work attracts an atheistic audience is not the only reason I’m asking. I wondered if the messages expressed in my work contradicts Catholic ideals.
That’s pretty much the whole point. Why worry? The way people interpret your work is not within your hands. The best you can do is express how you feel and just leave it at that. Justifying your own take will only distract you from doing more. Believe me, I’ve walked down that path. It’s not worth it.

You can try as hard as you want and that’s admirable. However, don’t be put down or feel uneasy if some people (or even a lot of people) just don’t get what you were trying to say.
 
Hey now I’m all for drawing your emotions, but these pictures are morally objectional if you ask me. When I get an erection I don’t draw naked women.
Apples and oranges. Lust is a sin. Sadness and anger deserve only either resolution, comfort, or release, not condemnation.
My friend was making a mockery of the person’s misery, he was trying to help raise the person’s spirits.
You don’t raise spirits by telling a person to do away with the one thing that helps them cope. Heck, you try telling me this without so much as attempting to see why I’m angry, I’ll be angry at you as well. It demonstrates a severe lack of tact and empathy.
Drawing pictures like these really isn’t a good idea because they are really bad for your psyche, or at least mine.
Yes. YOU.

But just remember:

You =/= OP
The occult, the demonic, apart from a theological context, presents moral issues.
What do you mean by this? Giving a creature horns and bat wings does not necessarily make it evil or demonic. A character conjuring a glowing pentagram before him is not necessarily an occult image.
If you are looking at art in the context of your faith, you have a responsibility to those who view your art not to present stumbling blocks to their faith and chastity.
What do you mean ‘in the context of your faith’? Not everyone views art within such a context. What they see is what they’ll digest and critique on their own terms, not the creator’s.

People come up with nutty interpretations of religious art all the time. Look at Leonardo da Vinci as a prime example.
As a Christian, I don’t believe that art need simply be a place to give voice to every thought that gives me trouble. Some things are best resolved with our Lord. Use your art to give hope, to demonstrate hope, and show light in a world of darkness. Never let your art and ability be an offense against the hope, mercy and beauty of God.
Ah but it’s that same emphasis on those concepts of hope and light that becomes abused and distorted into justifying delusions. A balance must be struck. I’m sure prayer helps in resolution (I’ve experienced this myself) but something has to deal with the immediate need. People who use art and literature to express that should have a right to an outlet. In fact, it’s one more demonstration that these are gifts from God.
I personally didn’t see my art as promoting or glorfying any immoral behavior. I’m not asking people to hang themselves on nooses because I drew a noose, or to kill birds because I drew dead birds. The noose was included to express despair and sadness, and the birds, for me, symbolized an inability to rise above a trying situation.
Indeed this is the proof of what I just spoke of in my earlier post. Already you have one person here who doesn’t understand what your art meant. Multiply this several times and you’ll get my experience. If people get on your nerves, feel free to explain. Don’t make it a habit though as it will burn you out.

Personally, I’m more partial to using fire and fantastical imagery in my writing. Mine is the simple art of writing out fictional counterparts to my thoughts and to the events of my life. I’d wager Holy there would think I glorified killing, vigilantism, and vagrancy if I ever posted my work here.

The truth though is they symbolize something too.
  1. My author avatar vanquishing a large and malicious nemesis - That’s me wishing to hand the killing blow to all the injustice in my life.
  2. Scenes of an adventuring party taking down a large foe - My hopes of getting close companions to help me in my struggles
  3. Dreams of wandering the land, exploring new places, and wielding a power that only exists in my daydreams - There are times when this world bores me and for good reasons. Can’t blame me for wanting an adventurous quest.
 
I have a fascination admittedly with dark, macabre art, but I don’t consider my drawings to be such. Lately though, I feel as if my obsession with grotesque art, which often crosses into the occult, is a kind of contradiction to my faith, like an obstinate despair.

I tend to draw most when I’m not in the best mood. Semi-nudes, dismembered limbs, injury. I used to draw a lot of violent/gory art but grew out of that. My family often objects to the things I draw and have called my work scary, morbid, unstable, etc. Well, anyway, here are a few of my recent pieces: fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/149/c/c/bunch_by_missstreelight-d51k8q7.png

Are my obsession with macabre art, and the spirit of the things I draw, wrong in any way?
Some of the scariest things I’ve experienced have come from my own interior self. Like realizing that I was so wounded that I could have seriously harmed the person who wounded me.For me, writing is my medium of expressing “when I’m not in the best mood”. If I could draw- even my stick figures are pathetic- I can surely see how the art you create would be a good means of emptying my mind, heart and soul. Some of what I have written in the past would definitely be considered dark and disturbing and I definitely would be very careful about sharing. Some things I have shared when I thought it could be helpful to others. Personally, if I wrote something and was able to let it go, I’d know it served its purpose for that “emptying” and letting go. If I developed an attatchment to it( the dark and disturbing) that would be a serious cause for concern.- And again, for me personally, If I thought that someone could grossly misunderstand my intent, I would have a certain feeling of responsiility to not share.

If you are seriously concerned, find someone to talk about it with and definitely take it to prayer.- Wish you the best.
 
As an artist, when I used to paint and draw and now as a writer of poetry, I cannot, nor do I think I should ever separate my art from my faith in God. The first is clearly a gift from the second and could not exist without it. I don’t believe that art can exist as such, in a vacuum as it were, apart from our relationship with God. We are given the gift of work and creativity and in my own opinion, we should always use it with great responsibility.
 
I have a fascination admittedly with dark, macabre art, but I don’t consider my drawings to be such. Lately though, I feel as if my obsession with grotesque art, which often crosses into the occult, is a kind of contradiction to my faith, like an obstinate despair.

I tend to draw most when I’m not in the best mood. Semi-nudes, dismembered limbs, injury. I used to draw a lot of violent/gory art but grew out of that. My family often objects to the things I draw and have called my work scary, morbid, unstable, etc. Well, anyway, here are a few of my recent pieces: fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/149/c/c/bunch_by_missstreelight-d51k8q7.png

Are my obsession with macabre art, and the spirit of the things I draw, wrong in any way?
A with anything, it starts with a question like this. painting is a journey just like anything else. your topical approach is likely to be about to change just because of the question you are asking. Your asking is a prayer…i believe artists and musicians and poets and songwriters have a spiritual connection that others do not share. So when you ask this question, it is a good idea to pray about it, maybe even during adoration. Then just start walking on this part of your journey.

None of the things you have learned artistically will be wasted.
 
What would you say? I simply said that just because I believe in God doesn’t mean that I can’t find life difficult at times, and I use my art to help me during these times, all the while knowing from my Catholic faith that, in the end, everything wil be okay.

It’s true that a piece of work can be interpreted as something very different from what the artist orgially intended, but perhaps certain kinds lend themselves more easily to such? Besides, that my work attracts an atheistic audience is not the only reason I’m asking. I wondered if the messages expressed in my work contradicts Catholic ideals.

I respect your opinion that my work is morally objectionable. Unfortunately I don’t quite get the connection between having an erection and drawing naked women? Drawing nudes isn’t necessarily sinful, though it might be an occasion of sin for some people…As I said earlier, I feel uncomfortable handling religious subjects, because I’m afraid it would be kind of hypocritical… Did your rap glorify killing people? I personally didn’t see my art as promoting or glorfying any immoral behavior. I’m not asking people to hang themselves on nooses because I drew a noose, or to kill birds because I drew dead birds. The noose was included to express despair and sadness, and the birds, for me, symbolized an inability to rise above a trying situation.
I agree with you on all of that. The thing is that I don’t have to say “killing is cool”. It’s so clearly implied. Ok so the picture is just an image of your emotions correct? Miserable emotions. So the picture IS the emotion, misery. So the picture is misery, and you are giving to people or selling it to people and sharing your misery. Ha you know what they say “Misery loves company.” And when I say nude women I mean porno, which is sinful.
 
Apples and oranges. Lust is a sin. Sadness and anger deserve only either resolution, comfort, or release, not condemnation.

You don’t raise spirits by telling a person to do away with the one thing that helps them cope. Heck, you try telling me this without so much as attempting to see why I’m angry, I’ll be angry at you as well. It demonstrates a severe lack of tact and empathy.

Yes. YOU.

But just remember:

You =/= OP

What do you mean by this? Giving a creature horns and bat wings does not necessarily make it evil or demonic. A character conjuring a glowing pentagram before him is not necessarily an occult image.

What do you mean ‘in the context of your faith’? Not everyone views art within such a context. What they see is what they’ll digest and critique on their own terms, not the creator’s.

People come up with nutty interpretations of religious art all the time. Look at Leonardo da Vinci as a prime example.

Ah but it’s that same emphasis on those concepts of hope and light that becomes abused and distorted into justifying delusions. A balance must be struck. I’m sure prayer helps in resolution (I’ve experienced this myself) but something has to deal with the immediate need. People who use art and literature to express that should have a right to an outlet. In fact, it’s one more demonstration that these are gifts from God.

Indeed this is the proof of what I just spoke of in my earlier post. Already you have one person here who doesn’t understand what your art meant. Multiply this several times and you’ll get my experience. If people get on your nerves, feel free to explain. Don’t make it a habit though as it will burn you out.

Personally, I’m more partial to using fire and fantastical imagery in my writing. Mine is the simple art of writing out fictional counterparts to my thoughts and to the events of my life. I’d wager Holy there would think I glorified killing, vigilantism, and vagrancy if I ever posted my work here.

The truth though is they symbolize something too.
  1. My author avatar vanquishing a large and malicious nemesis - That’s me wishing to hand the killing blow to all the injustice in my life.
  2. Scenes of an adventuring party taking down a large foe - My hopes of getting close companions to help me in my struggles
  3. Dreams of wandering the land, exploring new places, and wielding a power that only exists in my daydreams - There are times when this world bores me and for good reasons. Can’t blame me for wanting an adventurous quest.
Look bro you’re twisting my words. I have empathy for her. I write a lot too. My writings follow a bit of the same pattern. I’d probably like your work. As far as I’m concerned those drawings have me mind******. I guess if you guys can handle the disturbing imagery, then go ahead with it, but I personally do not like such an art genre. I just hope that drawing these creepy images isn’t your only way of finding solace. God keep you, H
 
I just hope that drawing these creepy images isn’t your only way of finding solace.
And what if it is? God answers prayers but the lack of immediate effect doesn’t do anyone favors without the gift of having a creative outlet.
 
Just an observation, but as a Catholic, I don’t think that anime or erotica or the macabre have any place in my spiritual life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top