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St_Francis
Guest
That was my point. Perhaps I misunderstood your point to which I was responding.
No, but I would if they were married. But that is a whole nother discussion.
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Godfollower
Guest
Statistically, the majority of all personal bankruptcies these days are by individuals with too many medical bills. The vast majority of them had health insurance. Most of them are middle-class and well-educated. Source]
So the facts tell a different story than your conclusions.
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sedonaman
Guest
You said,
To which I responded that I thought it was sinful to facilitate another’s self-destructive behavior, and used the boyfriend in jail as an example.
“Boyfriend” is not a term used to describe a husband.
uch:
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St_Francis
Guest
Your first post:You said,
To which I responded that I thought it was sinful to facilitate another’s self-destructive behavior, and used the boyfriend in jail as an example.
“Boyfriend” is not a term used to describe a husband.
I obviously mistinterpreted what you meant. I apologize.
I think we are mostly in agreement.
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sedonaman
Guest
Peace.
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zenith15
Guest
Very True. As someone with a college degree, I now owe over $88,000 dollars in hospital bills which I cannot pay and which have ruined my credit, what little I had, because I have no insurance. In my state, the qualifying income for medicaid for a family of four is $800 or less per month. My disabled husband’s SSDI check amounts to more than that so we don’t qualify.
My degree was in nursing. Many years ago (over 15 years), I developed an addiction to prescribed painkillers. As a result, I made the horrible mistake (not to mention sin) of fraudulently calling in a prescription for the cough syrup containing hydrocodone I was addicted to. As a result, I now have a felony conviction on my record (I was never involved in any other criminal or illegal activity in my life) that renders me almost completely unemployable in this day of high tech background searches and credit checks before even obtaining a job at places like Wal Mart or McDonalds. In fact, Wal Mart was GOING to hire me, and even said they would give me a chance with my 15 year old conviction, but when they ran a credit check and saw my medical debt, they said no way. They explained that their employees must have good credit because those with poor credit would be more likely to steal from them.
Due to health related issues I cannot stand for more than a few minutes at a time and cannot tolerate extreme outdoor heat in my southern state also due to a medical condition. This further limits the type of job I can work. Additionally, my husband is on a liver transplant list (not because he drank, etc but because he got hep c from a blood transfusion) and is quite ill, and my youngest son has an autism disorder as well as ADHD and is impossible for my husband to care for alone, and we do not qualify for any assistance in care for him, so again, this limits my ability to work to hours he is in school. Should he be sick or school be closed for a holiday or teacher work day I would be unable to work.
Not only that, but people with any type of drug conviction on their record are permanently ineligible for many types of assistance in many states, including mine–no student loans/grants, no food stamps, no subsidized housing, etc. EVER. Now, were I a paroled murderer, rapist or robber, I would be eligible for ALL those things.
I don’t mean to insinuate that one should not pay for one’s crimes–however, is it reasonable to expect people to be able to return to a middle or even lower class existence under these circumstances, when they are unable to obtain employment, etc? Even finding a place to live is near impossible if you have a felony–no apartment complexes will accept you, and most renters will not rent to felons. Everyone assumes that anyone who is a “felon” must have been involved in a violent crime such as murder, kidnapping or rape and is not safe to have around, though this is often not the case at all.
This is just an example of ONE reason why a person might end up in poverty–yes, it began with a foolish mistake but results in a lifetime of punishment and ostracism. There are MANY reasons for poverty. And yes, our faith obliges us to give to the poor, not clutch our “hard earned money” to our chests in fear that we might accidentally help some “unworthy” person.
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Ender
Guest
Poverty is not be as complex as you suppose. Here’s how to avoid it: graduate from high school, get a job, get married, don’t have children out of wedlock. (All figures from the US Census Bureau)
- Only 3.8% of high school graduates experience long term poverty.
- Only 2.6% of people 16 and older with full time jobs are poor.
- Only 1.3% of married couples without children experience long term poverty.
- Of those households with two or more children under the age of 6, 11.5 percent of married households were poor, while 62.4 percent of never-married households were poor.
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zenith15
Guest
Really? SO, does that mean people who have ONLY a high school degree, or is that people who have a high school degree and also possibly a college degree? Because I find it VERY VERY hard to believe that anyone jobseeking with nothing but a public high school degree to their name will be able to land a job paying enough for them to support themselves, much less a family.
And the average 16 year old would not HAVE a full time job unless he or she WERE a dropout. And I am pretty sure the average 16 year old full time employee at a fast food place or other typical teen job is earning enough to support themselves. I worked full time at Barnes and Noble and a full week’s pay, if nothing interfered with my getting every second of my 8 hours a day, resulted in a check of $240 after taxes. Many who worked there had college degrees, and everyone had high school degrees, yet the average starting wage was $6.00 per hour.
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edwest2
Guest
I don’t think broad, sweeping comments about America, especially focusing on the negative, will help get an answer to the topic question.
Peace,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
Please, people, personal opinions don’t mean anything. Some facts are in order.
worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm
Scroll down to the Education heading:
brookings.edu/research/testimony/2012/06/05-poverty-families-haskins/
Peace,
Ed
worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm
Scroll down to the Education heading:
brookings.edu/research/testimony/2012/06/05-poverty-families-haskins/
Peace,
Ed
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zenith15
Guest
From the USCCB:
- While the common good embraces all, those who are weak, vulnerable, and most in need deserve preferential concern. A basic moral test for our society is how we treat the most vulnerable in our midst. In a society marred by deepening disparities between rich and poor, Scripture gives us the story of the Last Judgment (see Mt 25:31-46) and reminds us that we will be judged by our response to the “least among us.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains:
- Pope Benedict XVI has taught that “love for widows and orphans, prisoners, and the sick and needy of every kind, is as essential to [the Church] as the ministry of the sacraments and preaching of the Gospel” (Deus Caritas Est, no. 22). This preferential option for the poor and vulnerable includes all who are marginalized in our nation and beyond—unborn children, persons with disabilities, the elderly and terminally ill, and victims of injustice and oppression.
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Bobby_Jim
Guest
As another poster mentioned, a lot of the poor are kids. There are also a lot of poor elderly. There are poor people with high school diplomas, college degrees, and PhD’s. There are poor people who are black, white, Asian, Native American, you name it.
And before we get all Calvinistic about the poor, and how it’s their fault, and how they CHOOSE to be poor - I like to remember St Francis, who chose to be poor for the sake of the Kingdom of God, and how, like him, thousands upon thousands of religious men and women over the centuries have made the same choice of voluntary poverty out of a deep love of Christ.
And before we get all Calvinistic about the poor, and how it’s their fault, and how they CHOOSE to be poor - I like to remember St Francis, who chose to be poor for the sake of the Kingdom of God, and how, like him, thousands upon thousands of religious men and women over the centuries have made the same choice of voluntary poverty out of a deep love of Christ.
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zenith15
Guest
Yes, and the many Mendicant Religious communities out there such as the Franciscans and the Dominicans whose communities beg for their bread. Shall we condemn them as well?
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bearer
Guest
As others have written, those living in poverty are not limited to high school dropouts. There is, however, a statistical relation between education and income level. These US Census Bureau statistics from 2007 show the median income of householders over 25 based on education attained:
The 2007 Federal Poverty Guidelines for a household of 1 person was $10,210 (for a household of 8 persons $34,570). The percentage of householders at or beneath $10,000 (which I have used for expediency of statistical calculation), by education attained, was:
The point of these statistics is to show that the lower the education level, the greater than chance of living below poverty level. However, they do not show that most of the nation’s poor are dropouts. The vast majority (86.5%) of householders over 25 have at least obtained a high school diploma or equivalent.
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SgtSchultz
Guest
Precisely. This is why it’s so disordered that so many Americans think their system is so great. This is why citizens of every other first-world country do not desire to have anything like an American system. (Of course, besides being the most expensive system in the world, it’s incredibly ineffective. The infant mortality rate is high for a developed country and the average lifespan is low.) They realise they are only one accident away from financial ruin. It’s not about “helping free-loaders”, it’s about protecting the hard-working middle class. Time to shove the hyperbole.
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zenith15
Guest
Exactly. Last time I checked, which was recently, the USA was #34 in the world in infant mortality rates, behind such countries as Costa Rica.
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