J
jinc1019
Guest
You are right to some extent, but still, you have failed to answer how YOU know that the Holy Spirit inspired the writers of the Bible and thus, how we can trust the Bible to be true.
- Status
G
Gaelic_Bard
Guest
It is hyperbolic in the sense that Paul is not saying it as an admission that he could teach erroneously. That’s why I am not sure bringing the text into it is relevant to what we’re discussing here. His reason for stressing that is to show the inviolable nature of the gospel of Christ, as you rightly noted its authority.
So you don’t believe in the infallibility of the magesterium?
G
Gaelic_Bard
Guest
Well, I did answer it in a basic sense in my first posts on the subject. If you’re asking if I have infallible knowledge, then no, I don’t. Im comfortable with that since I’m not infallible on anything.
J
jinc1019
Guest
I do think that Paul was also trying to show that his authority is lesser than the authority of what Jesus said and that not even he, or anyone else for that matter, has the authority to change it. I guess we are just arguing semantics on that point.
And no, I do not believe in Church infallibility in any way…including Papal infallibility or the infallibility of the magisterium. I think there is ample evidence in history to prove my point, not the least of which is the fact that the Eastern Orthodox Church, who has been around just as long as the Catholic Church, rejects it.
I won’t get into details here, but I have posted many times on these forums about it so it should be in my records somewhere. It’s caused quite a problem.
G
Gaelic_Bard
Guest
Yes we are. No I think you’re right vis a vie the authority issues.
Okay. Thank you for clarifying. I’m newer to the forum so this is the first thread I’ve seen you post on.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Right. Because there was no authority that spoke for the Jews.
As opposed to the Catholic Church, which has a clear entity that speaks for the Church.
P
PRmerger
Guest
'zactly.
I have been on the CAFs for a very long time and have posed this question to non-Catholic Christians ad nauseum.
Not a single nCC has been able to provide a reasoned response for how he knows that Hebrews is inspired but that the other ancient Christian texts are not,
except through the authority of the CC.
S
stewstew03
Guest
So you are not absolutely certain of your salvation? This seems odd in light of your Baptist identification.
S
stewstew03
Guest
Or… as opposed to Christianity, which has an authority on matters of faith and morals (i.e., the OHCA Church).
J
jinc1019
Guest
I agree that this is a major problem for Protestants, but I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think we need to know that the Bible writers were inspired. Isn’t the very fact that a religion started by a bunch of uneducated Jewish nobodies from a part of the world no one ever cared about, preaching a religion even their own neighbors disagreed with, started by a man who was executed for believing it, spread throughout the world by men, many whom couldn’t read or write, and who were killed for preaching it, is now the most influential and important religion in the world enough? If God isn’t involved in that, I don’t know if it is possible to argue God is involved in anything.
S
stewstew03
Guest
Wow. Where were you catechized?
B
Blacksword
Guest
Tremendous thread, loving it. The bible itself IS and fundamentally cannot be separated from Sacred Tradition and the living Church which gave it to us. One big reason for the mess that is Protestantism today and big part of why I entered the Catholic Church. I don’t see why more Protestants don’t realize this crucial and undeniable fact: there is both written and orally passed Tradition in the Christian faith, what we call the Bible is that written Tradition. Because it’s written down does not make it really separate from or higher than the rest of Sacred Tradition.
J
jinc1019
Guest
Several different Catholic Churches in New England, but in fairness to them, they really didn’t teach me ANYTHING, never mind what I just wrote.
But I don’t think the Catholic Church would disagree with anything I said in the sense that everything that has happened to the Church over 2,000 years is a testament to the fact that God is involved in Christianity. Would they disagree that we need some proof of the Bible authors being inspired? Yes. They would say the Church’s affirmation of the them is necessary, but as I said, I think history does all the talking on that issue with or without the Catholic Church.
A
aragonjohn1
Guest
P
PRmerger
Guest
Well, if there’s any Christian who professes that, then he’s going to have a very, very hard time refuting another Christian who says something contrary to the Christian faith.
For example, when a Christian says, “I believe that God doesn’t forgive your sins, but he forgives mine”, your type of Christian, who can’t rely on any inspired text, is going to have to respond, “Well, that’s your opinion and I guess I can’t really refute that.”
J
jinc1019
Guest
I think you are misinterpreting my statement. I am not saying the New Testament shouldn’t be treated like its holy or comes from God or is even inspired by God. What I am saying is, whether its purely a historical account of what happened written only by humans, or is a book where the humans were inspired directly from God is not relevant. Why? Because history has shown that God supports it, wanted it, and has maintained it.Well, if there’s any Christian who professes that, then he’s going to have a very, very hard time refuting another Christian who says something contrary to the Christian faith.
For example, when a Christian says, “I believe that God doesn’t forgive your sins, but he forgives mine”, your type of Christian, who can’t rely on any inspired text, is going to have to respond, “Well, that’s your opinion and I guess I can’t really refute that.”
P
PRmerger
Guest
And I am saying is that it is of supreme importance knowing whether the contents of the NT are inspired or not.
If they are not inspired, then that puts every single claim of the NT into question.
Treating it as a historical document gives a Christian as little credibility as any secular ancient near east scholar.
Now, I don’t discount scholarship, but if one is to be an effective evangelist, one needs to have more credibility and reliability than historicity.
P
PRmerger
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
S
stewstew03
Guest
When speaking to non-Christians, sure - you may start with that line of reasoning. But within our faith, it is absolutely necessary that the Scriptures were “God-breathed.”
[BIBLEDRB]2 Timothy 3:16[/BIBLEDRB]
A
Arizona_Samson
Guest
This adherent of biblical Christianity would say your view of what early Christians believed is contrary to the facts of history.
- Status