Of course, this is pure hyperbole, as you certainly know.
The points on which Catholics and Baptists disagree are deep and serious, but we share a core belief in Christ as the Incarnate Son of God, along with the other points of the Nicene and Apostles Creeds, except for the last four points of the Nicene Creed. Thatâs pretty similarâmuch more similar than different. 
Iâm not sure I understand, are you trying to imply that the Orthodox and Catholics are close, or relatively far apart? Although Catholics and Baptists DO share much in common, I think youâd have a very tough time demonstrating that the Baptists are as close to Catholicism as the Orthodox (and I would think that most Catholics AND Orthodox on these boards would agree).
Quite an impressive list. You said that it was incomplete but this will keep me busy for some time. I think it is interesting that you stated that doctrinally confession would be the biggest difference. For me, while I do believe that we should go to God directly for forgiveness, I honestly would like to see some kind of a confessional system in Baptist circles. I believe that too often it is too easy to say that you are sorry without changing anything. If you had to talk to somebody else about the sins that you committed I believe that it would definetly make you think twice before committing them. I think that my biggest hang-up with this has been that I was under the impression that catholics believed that the Priest himself could actually forgive the sin. Some of what you have listed here I could see myself going along with, some of it though at this point I would have a hard time with. Thank-you for your response, you and the other posters have really helped me see what the Catholic Church REALLY believes and quite honestly it is alot different than I had been led to believe. Like I said there are still some things that I disagree with but I have learned that there are some things that are very reasonable.
Thank you for the encouragment, that you have given. Also allow me to say that if you have that many Southern Baptists as family members that I will be praying for you as I know first hand how opinionated a devoted Southern Baptist can be. We as Baptist (if we are not careful) can be overly zealous in our religious debates and somtimes will win the debate but lose where it really matters. Thank you again and I will be on these boards for a while. I have already learned alot about the Catholic Faith that is completely different than what I had previously been taught.
You got that right! I could tell you some great stories about their attempts to save my soul over the Thanksgiving turkey. In the spirit of charity, Iâll refrain. One less thing to tell Father in the confessional next weekâŚI can certainly feel your âpainâ⌠my 7 year old grandson called me a few weeks back to let me know that he had been saved the night before⌠during a bad storm. The implication was clear⌠there was still âhopeâ for me !!
Well, as I look over the information that you gave me I could easily see myself accepting a confessional system. To me, it just makes sense that if you are willing to confess to another human and then do something to make up for the sin you have comitted than not only does it demonstrate true sorrow and remorse for what you have done but it (at least to me) will increase the chances that you wont do it again. Also I see great value in being able to talk to a Pastor or Priest about a particular sin that you might be struggling with and gain valuable insight as to how to avoid falling into that sin. The sacrements would not pose much of a problem but I doubt if I would be able to view the bread and wine as the actual body and blood of Christ. As you said, as a Baptist I believe that Christs sacrificial act was a once for all one time only not continually repeating sacrifice. The best that I would be able to do with that would be as I do now when I receive communion in my church. As for the other sacrements, I would not have a problem although I should mention that I do not know anything about Holy Orders, if you could give me some information on that. As for Mary and the Saints, that one is kind of a two edged sword for me. On the one hand I will completely agree that they are people to be greatly respected and admired, I will also agree that for a christian death is not the end but that we live eternally in Heaven and because of that the body of Christ consists of believers here on earth as well as in Heaven. I can also agree that in and of itself there is nothing wrong with asking any member of the Body of Christ to pray for us (just like I would ask my living church family to pray for me). On the other hand there is a Big difference to me in asking someone to pray for me and actually praying to that person (again I freely admit to knowing very little of the Catholic Church), but I have heard some of the prayers and to me it sounded like they were being prayed to the saints and not asking the saints to pray for them. I believe that all pray is to go to God the Father by way of God the Son as John 14:6 says. When it comes to Mary, my thoughts are very similar. I believe that for God to choose her to be the mother of the Son of God she was a remarkable woman (blessed among women). I also have no problem with the idea of her perpetual virginity, where I have an issue is with the idea of her sinlessness. In Romans 3:23 Paul writes that âall have sinned and come short of the glory of Godâ I believe that if Mary was the exception to this than the Holy Spirit would have inspired him to put in an exception for Mary. I cannot help but feel that to class Mary as sinless is to attempt to put her on the same level as God. Finally as concerning scripture and tradition, I firmly believe that it is important to adhere to what was taught by the saints that have gone before us. I do not believe that we should ignore it and not pay it any attention. However, I believe that all things should be examined in the light of Scripture, if what someone has taught lines up with what the Bible says great, if not we need to go by what the Bible says. While I place great value on the teachings and traditions handed down by the saints, ultimately I believe that it is the Bible that has the supreme authority. The greatest area of disagreement for me would be Salvation. I have already posted on this thread what I believe concerning salvation, as it is a lengthy post I wonât re-post it here, but let me just say that even here I can find some areas of agreement with Catholics. I believe that anyone that says they are saved but has no changes evident in their life needs to re-evaluate their claim of salvation. I donât believe that works produce salvation, but I do believe that real salvation will ALWAYS produce the fruits of the Spirit as mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23. Again I donât want to take the time to re-post this because of length, but it is on this thread if you are interested in what I believe on this matter. I am not trying to be offensive in this post, and if anyone is offended by this I am truly sorry that was not, and never will be my intention.
Ok Ahimsa, you must explain to me what Bapto-BuddistDonât forget those Bapto-Buddhists.
- should I google this time? heheheIndeed, this year, we call it the year of Scripture, we are all advised to study the Bible.
I understand your concern over this issue. However, part of the problem, as I see it, is in the terminology concerning the verb, âto pray.â To pray is simply to make a request. In days of old phrases such as, âI pray you kind sirâŚâ which simply meant that something was about to be asked, were common. Many people today confuse âprayerâ with âworship.â Catholics as Baptists pray to God. Both groups worship God (and ONLY God). The only difference is that Catholics also pray (make requests) of those we recognize as being with God in Heaven. Both groups also ask their friends and relatives to pray for them.
Well, obviously we know St. Paul also did not include Jesus when he spoke in Romans 3:23. So, perhaps there are understood exceptions. Also, what about new born babies, the mentally retarded, etc. Have they sinned? So, I would suggest that St. Paul didnât mention these people because it was simply understood. In addition, the word âallâ used by St. Paul in Romans 3:23 was the Greek word âPantesâ. It was the exact same word he used in I Cor 15:22 where he says, âallâ have died. Again, he was NOT referring to every single person because he obviously knew that both Enoch and Elijah never died but were actually assumed into Heaven.
The Catholic Church agrees with you. However, the problem lies within Biblical interpretation. I know of no Catholic Tradition (Capital âTâ) that contradicts the Bible.
I would ask, what affects these works (fruits of the Spirit)? What causes them? Is it the Spirit Himself or the individual (the man/woman)? If it is the Spirit that causes the works you are referring to, does that mean that the man is no longer in control of what he does/doesnât do? If it is the man that chooses to do these works, isnât he then doing something towards his salvation? I responded at length to your post on Salvation (as you stated concerning your post, mine too is too long to reprint here). Catholics donât believe that âworksâ produce salvation either. We believe that the equation goes something like FAITH + WORKS = SALVATION. Removing either element (faith or works) negates the equation.
You are right. Indeed, I find myself going to confession more regularly right now; about once per two week or sometimes twice in two days.
What I learn from going to confession is that, as you already mentioned, it increases the chances that I donât repeat it again, and also by grace of God, He helps me see my sins that I committed 5 years, 10 years or even 15 years ago. Each time that I am reminded of the sins, I am so grateful to Him, and I go to confess those sins.Thatâs correct. A child can learn a lot from his parents; a member of the church can learn a lot from the Pastor. It is also very important to pray to the Holy Spirit to guide those pastors. Through the pastors, we can listen what the Holy Spirit wants to tell you.
For the purpose of knowing the similarities between the two Catholics and Baptists, I would simply not going to the differences on the Eucharist; however, Iâd like to emphasize that Catholics do believe Jesus died once for us.
Here is the link on Holy Orders:
yes, I do ask Virgin Mary and the Saints pray for me as I also believe our live of worshiping God and praying for other does not end when you are in Heaven.
We agree with you on God being above all things, but we also believe that nothing is impossible to God. I wouldnât go into details on this because I might go off topic on this thread.
Any miracle or apparition is very well examined.
No matter how much works one has accomplished, it cannot be used to measure up with the Salvation. However,
Honestly, Mary being assumed into Heaven would not be a problem. Other Biblical people have been assumed (Enoch and Elijah). So Mary being assumed would not be an issue, the challenge for me would be the Immaculate Conception. On a personal note I would like to take the time to say that I really appreciate all the information that I have received from you and many other posters on this thread. I came here not knowing what to expect, but I am glad that I did. I must freely admit that I did have some misconceptions about the Catholic Faith that have been proven not to be true, and I count it a blesing to have met the posters here at this forum. Thank you all.
I donât believe that a person that is saved has no choice as if he becomes robotic, but that it is more like at Salvation, we become brand new creations created by His workmanship in us (Eph 2:10). As such God gives us a desire to live for Him and to do what is acceptable and pleasing to the Lord. That is not to say that we donât struggle with our old nature. Paul himself wrote that he struggled with his flesh on a regular basis (Romans 7:18-25), but we would all agree that by and large he had evidence of salvation in his life. I believe that this is what James is referring to when he writes that faith without works is dead. Essentially he is saying that if we are going to talk the talk there needs to be something to back it up. Salvation results in a new creation, created in Christ Jesus with the ultimate goal being that we become conformed to the image of Gods Son (Romans 8:29). If faith does not produce Godly lives and changed hearts and result in a new mind set than that faith is not real. I went back and added a missing period between salvation and up. I did not want it to look like I was saying that James was saying what was said in Romans. Probably nobody would have noticed but I wanted to be accurate.
I think that we are saying the same thing, albeit we seem to be coming to different understandings somehow. We both recognize that faith is needed for salvation. We both see âworksâ resulting from that faith. Where we differ, appears to simply be in concluding what role, if any, do those âworksâ play in our salvation. The Baptist Churchâs position is that faith alone = Salvation and that the âworksâ are simply a byproduct (a fruit) of the process? They believe that the âworksâ are evidence that a person is âsavedâ but that in the end the âworksâ play no role in the salvation process, correct? Catholics believe that the Bible teaches us otherwise. We see the evidence throughout the Bible. For example, when Jesus taught the beatitudes (Matt 5:2-11), He was telling us to go beyond simply having faith. He tells us to be merciful, peacemakers, pure, etc. These are verbs which denote an action (I.E.- âworksâ). Even in the Lordâs Prayer (Matt 6:12) â⌠forgive us our sinsâŚâ not by how much faith we have but rather, â⌠as we forgive those who trespass against us.â Forgiveness is a verb and therefore a âwork.â I suppose what I am getting at is why would Jesus need to tell us to do these things in addition to having faith? If these âworksâ play no role in salvation, then telling us to do them would seem silly, because as I have been told by many Baptists in the past, nothing âI DOâ is âGOODâ in Godâs eyes as I am a sinner.