Are there any ex-Mormons here to help me?

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CreosMary

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Dera Friends,
I run a house for men who wish to give up drugs and the latest resident is a Mormon, even though he was on drugs for all his adult life.
He still persists in pushing his little barrow even though he is well aware that this house is Catholic. Granted he does join me at Lauds and vespers (condition of stay here) and does quite well.
He says he feels uncomfortable doing the sign of the Cross and I find him shying away from looking at the MANY statues and frames in the house.
Are there any ex-Mormons here who can help me with him.
He has a good heart and I think he is clinging to mormonism as a form of self-identity, not having one whilst on drugs and maybe a fear of offending his LDS Mum.
I would be grateful if anyone can throw some wisdom or directions my way
May Almighty God Bless and Mary, Our Lady of the Passion protect you always
 
Just love him. Why is he making the sign of the Cross if he is LDS? This comes to those who are entering the Catholic faith. No one should do it unless they feel called to do it.

Just love him. God will take care of the rest.
 
My first question would be why is he there? If it’s just rehab and he accepts the Catholicity as “necessary” to be there then he probably intends to stay LDS.

If he is only “socially” LDS then you still have a challenge because he probably doesn’t want to complicate his life anymore than he already has.

Setting a good example, specifically showing the benefits of living a Catholic life is probably your best bet. If you can allow him to see your peace and joy when practicing your faith then hopefully he will become interested.
 
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catholic-rcia:
Just love him. Why is he making the sign of the Cross if he is LDS? This comes to those who are entering the Catholic faith. No one should do it unless they feel called to do it.

Just love him. God will take care of the rest.
I am sorry if I did not explain myself, He does not cross himself as he says it against mormon stuff. I have explained when we worship we use our body, mind and soul and he can see the sense in this.
 
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majick275:
My first question would be why is he there? If it’s just rehab and he accepts the Catholicity as “necessary” to be there then he probably intends to stay LDS.

If he is only “socially” LDS then you still have a challenge because he probably doesn’t want to complicate his life anymore than he already has.

Setting a good example, specifically showing the benefits of living a Catholic life is probably your best bet. If you can allow him to see your peace and joy when practicing your faith then hopefully he will become interested.
Thank you for your advice and these examples are already in practice.
He is here as we are the only non-government rehab about and the government ones all base themselves on the failed Harm minimisation policies. We are based on abstinence and God’s grace.
His mother has said she had almost given up and then saw our column in the community section of the local paper and it clearly indicates our Catholicity
 
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CreosMary:
Dera Friends,
I run a house for men who wish to give up drugs and the latest resident is a Mormon, even though he was on drugs for all his adult life.
He still persists in pushing his little barrow even though he is well aware that this house is Catholic. Granted he does join me at Lauds and vespers (condition of stay here) and does quite well.
He says he feels uncomfortable doing the sign of the Cross and I find him shying away from looking at the MANY statues and frames in the house.
Are there any ex-Mormons here who can help me with him.
He has a good heart and I think he is clinging to mormonism as a form of self-identity, not having one whilst on drugs and maybe a fear of offending his LDS Mum.
I would be grateful if anyone can throw some wisdom or directions my way
May Almighty God Bless and Mary, Our Lady of the Passion protect you always
Hi:

Unless you are willing not only to spend hours ‘debunking’ his religious faith but also to help this person acquire an entirely new network of religious support systems, you might want to focus manly upon this person’s drug problems. Unless this person already has at least some members of his personal circle outside of the rehab program who are Roman Catholic, twisting this man’s arm to set aside his LDS faith might do more harm than good at this point. Try to ‘make’ him become Roman Catholic, and you may estrange him from family and friends whose help he will desperately require to return to full health and independence from addiction. Or, he will feel he must choose between becomng ‘clean’ and his family, a choice you ought not to expect him to make.

I only say this because, from your description of the man, he truly is not interested in converting out of the Mormon Church even though this is likely in his best spiritual interest. For now, you need to simply love this person and witness to him by your good Catholic example, not making your concern for him conditional upon his acceptance or rejection of the Roman Catholic faith. Definitely do not compel him to engage in any devotions he clearly is uncomfortable with–i.e. the Sign of the Cross, veneration of Saints, etcetera. So long as he sits quietly and is respectful when others do these things, you can and should expect no more from him. After this man becomes more ‘whole’ he may remember the good example of his Catholic friends at your program and begin to yearn for what he has seen there.

Since Lauds and Vespers are part of the conditions of staying at your rehab home, and since this person presumably accepted these facts as a part of voluntarily participating in the program, there is not problem with this. (The program is ‘voluntary’ even if he had to choose your program as condition of parole or whatever. His decision might have been self-serving to some degree–he might have chosen your program because it seemed ‘easier’ or–more likely–because your program had space to include him, as opposed to being on a waiting list for a secular program. He still chose to accept the conditions of your program, regardless of his motives). In your position I think that I would encourage this person to contact a local LDS ward and attend Sacrament services (as Mormons describe their worship services).

It is possible, as this person reaches the point where he can cycle out of your program, that LDS Family/Social Services will be able to help him further. Unless he has been excommunicated for heresy or willful apostasy, he should be eligible for help. (If he is ‘disfellowshipped’ for misconduct, as in for criminal activity related to drugs, he should still be able to gain assistance, so long as he is willing to attend LDS worship and live in consonance with LDS principles).
 
Other than this–what sorts of reading material have you available at the program? A few biographies of Catholic converts–the Seven-Storey Mountain by Merton, or Evangelical Is Not Enough by Howard are some favorites of mine (though I’m not Roman Catholic). Fulton Sheen’s Life of Christ, also, because it is so very like a classic LDS book by Talmage called Jesus the Christ. Or similar, positive presentations of Catholic spirituality and life, like Thomas a’Kempis’ Imitation of Christ, which has actually been mentioned in Mormon conferences by LDS General Authorities. Seems to me as though Augustine’s Autobiography and/or something about St. Francis of Assissi have also been mentioned in recent years by Mormon leaders, so these would not seem to your client to be too inimical to his Mormon faith

I would not get too heavy-handed with Catholic apologetical works–a few good ones wouldn’t hurt (Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism, mebbe–if I have the title right). There’s a book floating around with a title something like **Why Do Catholic Do That? **Just because books like these will help explain some of the unique practices of the Roman Catholic Church, and debunk some of the worst stereotypes. I think I might avoid Radio Replies, just because of the slightly ascerbic tone, but the Knights of Columbus have some good materials.

I’m drawing a blank on further books. (I read vociferously and with time and space could probably come up with a few more). Surely there is a good reading list of devotional and spiritual classics floating around on the Catholic Answers website? Usually you can pick these sorts of books up cheaply in used bookstores or on e-bay, assuming that your program stays fairly strapped for cash and not able to buy a bunch of new books. DON’T buy expressly anti-Mormon materials–some are grossly inaccurate, and even accurate ones will often make the Mormon person feel as if they are being singled-out for persecution.

Keep this sort of material around not just with this one person in mind but for all in your program, Catholic or otherwise.Another good reason for buying ‘used’–folks may ‘snag’ a particular book if it touches them in a special way. Again–don’t get heavy-handed or force people into religious faith in a way they are not ready for. Just let make the resources available and trust the Holy Spirit to work on their behalf as they are ready.
 
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CreosMary:
Dera Friends,
I run a house for men who wish to give up drugs and the latest resident is a Mormon, even though he was on drugs for all his adult life.
He still persists in pushing his little barrow even though he is well aware that this house is Catholic. Granted he does join me at Lauds and vespers (condition of stay here) and does quite well.
He says he feels uncomfortable doing the sign of the Cross and I find him shying away from looking at the MANY statues and frames in the house.
Are there any ex-Mormons here who can help me with him.
He has a good heart and I think he is clinging to mormonism as a form of self-identity, not having one whilst on drugs and maybe a fear of offending his LDS Mum.
I would be grateful if anyone can throw some wisdom or directions my way
May Almighty God Bless and Mary, Our Lady of the Passion protect you always
I would simply take one misconception at a time and explain it to him. He probably doesn’t like crosses because he believes it’s nothing more than the weapon used to kill Christ. He’s been taught that our salvation took place in the Garden of Gethsemane. You can show him through scripture that this is false.

He probably doesn’t like the statues because he thinks it’s wrong to pray to the saints and doesn’t understand that there is a difference between prayer and worship. He doesn’t understand that we can ask the saints to pray for us just like he asks his Mother to pray for him.
 
Thank you all,
Ben has been to his first Holy Mass at the Cathedral and even though he found it a little daunting he got a lot from it.
He is also Hebdob for the Divine Office this week so he has to do the sign of the cross and he is quite happy to do so. In his speech he is less identifying with LDS and referring to them as ‘they’.
*“Let us Preach without speaking, not by words but by example” *andthis seems to be slowly working
He wants to go to confession so we will look into that.
God Bless
. 👋
 
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CreosMary:
Thank you all,
Ben has been to his first Holy Mass at the Cathedral and even though he found it a little daunting he got a lot from it.
He is also Hebdob for the Divine Office this week so he has to do the sign of the cross and he is quite happy to do so. In his speech he is less identifying with LDS and referring to them as ‘they’.
*“Let us Preach without speaking, not by words but by example” *andthis seems to be slowly working
He wants to go to confession so we will look into that.
God Bless
. 👋
There is a social-psychological theory called ‘interactionism’ which basically suggests that most people will eventually conform to the parameters of their social environment sufficiently to ‘fit in’, so as to ensure that their needs can be met within that society. What you have posted here suggests something of this is going on in Ben’s case. Yes, one can have non-conformists who flaunt their differences in some situations–but only if their society rewards this. Generally, social structures are set up to encourage conformity, at least conformity within a certain spectrum. Your half-way house likely sets up a narrower range of acceptable religious expression than does American or Western society generally, and so there may be a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle messages being pased that religious dissent is not welcome.

I wouldn’t assume therefore that ‘Ben’ has made a sincere decision to convert to Catholicism. Simply that he doesn’t want to fight those with whom he is most dependent upon to help him with his problems. The problem with interactionist theory is that changes in a desirable direction are seldom permanent or even guaranteed. Ben may temporarily suppress his need to live as a Mormon in order to meet more pressing needs; but once he feels in control of his addictions–or decides he can live with those addictions more happily than in your institution–he is likely to change back. Keep in mind that addicts have a reputation for deceitfulness and manipulativeness.

On the other hand: we know that people do convert from one faith to another. Again–be aware that a lot of conversions don’t ‘last’. Usually if a convert does not find a social network and a role they can identify with as ‘their niche’, they drop into inactivity fairly quickly. This happens with a significant number of Mormon converts, even though Mormons have one of the most self-conscious systems for integrating converts and for giving them a role in the LDS Church. For Mormonism I think the issue is that the theological and intellectual underpinnings just aren’t there, and the demands on one’s personal life can be quite a burden. Even so, few Mormon converts totally resign from the LDS Church, they just ‘drop out’ of activity.

My understanding was that ‘Ben’ is not an LDS convert but a lifelong Mormon. Did I misunderstand something? If he was indeed raised Mormon, you need to realise that the social network and expectiations you are currently providing him at the halfway house is not too dissimilar to the sort of thing he is accustomed to within Mormonism. The problem will be that Catholic churches in the ‘real world’ are seldom so supportive. In fact, he may quickly feel lost in the crowds. If he is the sort of person who is a natural ‘joiner’ he might find comfort in various sorts of groups such as the Cursillo Movement, home Bible study groups, or whatever. If he is not, the tendency to pine for the comforts of the old and familiar ways of Mormonism will strike home much sooner.

If ‘Ben’ effects a true conversion, this will all eventually pass; if it does not he will eventually drift out of Catholicism, no matter what he does right now. If he is showing positive interest in the RCC–I would encourage you to keep him in prayer and to provide him with materials as he shows interest and is able to assimilate them which help him to learn and grow. I still urge you to not force such a conversion–bear in mind that faith is a gift and not something to be compelled.

My one remaining question is: how does he intend to go to Confession if he is not now nor never has been Roman Catholic? And what is a 'hebdob"?
 
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