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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
If so, can you explain how you justify such votes?
Are there any Faithful Catholics voting for Pro Choice Candidates here?
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AnimalGal
Guest
Out here in California, I am voting for Jerry Brown instead and not Meg Whitman.
I will be voting for Barbara Boxer and not Carly Fiorina.
How do I justify this decision??? Carly and Meg are a little too sketchy for my tastes.
I will be voting for Barbara Boxer and not Carly Fiorina.
How do I justify this decision??? Carly and Meg are a little too sketchy for my tastes.
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Musicadmirer
Guest
I’m voting, but not for any of the above mentioned. They’re ALL too untrustworthy for my tastes.
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PetersKeys
Guest
Barbara Boxer? are you serious? she is at odds with nearly every Catholic non-negotiable. She even was against the Stupak-Pitts amendment that would restrict tax funds for going to abortion…
Your conscious is not well formed…
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diggerdomer
Guest
I am in the U.S., and guide my voting by what the US Bishops teach. See faithfulcitizenship.org/
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Rascalking
Guest
Sure I’ll tell you.
It’s called “Hold your nose and vote for X”. X=Pro-choice canidate who belongs to a party that doesn’t view abortion as a sacrament.
Because, if you vote for “X”, then your voting for a party that will hopefully gain a majority. You can’t even bring a bill into the floor if your not in the majority.
Instead of being one of those delusional single issue voters who sit at home and feel noble or better about themselves because they don’t get their hands dirty, and then watch as the other party wins and abortion skyrockets, why not use ::gasp:: common sense (which, granted, isn’t common) and hold your nose and vote for the person who is going to help your cause in other ways than the canidate who is going to do whatever possible to foward the pro-choice side?
Single issue voters used to really bother me, and they still do to a point. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of people do vote on all the issues.
It’s called “Hold your nose and vote for X”. X=Pro-choice canidate who belongs to a party that doesn’t view abortion as a sacrament.
Because, if you vote for “X”, then your voting for a party that will hopefully gain a majority. You can’t even bring a bill into the floor if your not in the majority.
Instead of being one of those delusional single issue voters who sit at home and feel noble or better about themselves because they don’t get their hands dirty, and then watch as the other party wins and abortion skyrockets, why not use ::gasp:: common sense (which, granted, isn’t common) and hold your nose and vote for the person who is going to help your cause in other ways than the canidate who is going to do whatever possible to foward the pro-choice side?
Single issue voters used to really bother me, and they still do to a point. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of people do vote on all the issues.
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sojo
Guest
Voting for Jerry Brown in California. Both Meg and Jerry are pro-choice. Meg has come out swinging that the government should sponsor abortions for poor women because they have a right to abortion. Pretty shocking for a woman who doesn’t feel the government should pay for a heck of a lot for poor people. But abortion - yeah, she’s for picking up that bill.
At least on every other issue, Jerry comes out on the side of the poor and disenfranchised. And I will not throw away my right to vote.
Also voting for Ms. Boxer because, quite frankly, Carly Fiorina may be pro-life, but she is a greedy liar who threw her own employees under the bus and wants to limit health care to the poor.
Finally - we have had plenty of pro-life politicians, including Presidents, and we STILL have legalized abortion. So how long are we to be shackled into voting for anyone, even the uneducated or racist who rises for some unfathomable reason just because they are pro-life? Heck - Sharron Angle wants to deny maternity care because she isn’t having anymore babies (age or contraception?), but she’s “pro-life.” Too bad if those new mommies don’t get any maternal care since Ms. Angle isn’t having anymore babies. She also wants to deny care to special needs children with (her air quotes, not mine) “autism.” So much for pro-lfe.
I refuse to vote for racist, uneducated, corporate-greed-monger candidates just because they checked one box that says “pro-life.”
At least on every other issue, Jerry comes out on the side of the poor and disenfranchised. And I will not throw away my right to vote.
Also voting for Ms. Boxer because, quite frankly, Carly Fiorina may be pro-life, but she is a greedy liar who threw her own employees under the bus and wants to limit health care to the poor.
Finally - we have had plenty of pro-life politicians, including Presidents, and we STILL have legalized abortion. So how long are we to be shackled into voting for anyone, even the uneducated or racist who rises for some unfathomable reason just because they are pro-life? Heck - Sharron Angle wants to deny maternity care because she isn’t having anymore babies (age or contraception?), but she’s “pro-life.” Too bad if those new mommies don’t get any maternal care since Ms. Angle isn’t having anymore babies. She also wants to deny care to special needs children with (her air quotes, not mine) “autism.” So much for pro-lfe.
I refuse to vote for racist, uneducated, corporate-greed-monger candidates just because they checked one box that says “pro-life.”
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MarianD
Guest
If I could vote (18 after the election), I would vote for Tim Cahill for Governor. All of the candidates in the Massachusetts gubernatorial election are pro-choice since that’s how politicians are up in New England, so it comes down to voting for who has the best policies aside from that one.
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
May I direct pro-choice “Catholics” to click on the link in my signature. Thank you.
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MarianD
Guest
No need for quotation marks. You have no right to judge anyone’s devotion to God.
And when you are an unemployed person with a family and have a pro-choice candidate who has the policies that will give you a job vs. a pro-life candidate who will do nothing to help you in your situation, you’d vote for the pro-choice candidate. Voters can’t always get exactly what they want unless they run for office themselves.
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
I’m sorry, did you click on the link and watch the whole video?
I put Catholic in quotes because any Catholic who understands that life begins at conception, and that millions of human beings are being slaughtered every year, is not truly Catholic if they vote for a pro-choice candidate.
Now I direct you to watch this video:
Cardinal-designate Raymond Burke Discussing Abortion and Voting
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MarianD
Guest
You still didn’t respond to my hypothetical (but very common) situation that explains why many Catholics vote for a pro-choice candidate.
And it certainly is never as clear cut as “Murderer” vs. “Protector of Life”, especially with many pro-life candidates also being pro-war and anti-economic growth as a result of their terrible policies. Give the people a good pro-life candidate for once and this wouldn’t be an issue.
You do realize that abortions will continue regardless of the law, but that wars and recessions can cease if you elect the right candidates? Please note I’m not talking about Obama or anything like that, but rather my own local politicians. Politics is complicated in this way, and anyone who involves themselves in the political life (whether as a candidate or as a voter) will never feel happy about themselves at the end of the day.
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
Watch the videos I posted. That’s about ten minutes out of your day. Please do so.
And come back with a better argument afterward. God Bless.
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
Once again, watch the videos.
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MarianD
Guest
The fact that you’re not responding to anything I’m saying and simply saying “Watch videos” shows you really are not connected to any of the situations of millions of Catholics in this nation who do vote for pro-choice candidates, and that you’re not connected to how voting works.
Your videos are saying what everyone here already knows (and yes, I watched the one in your sig). Abortion is wrong, it’s the killing of an innocent life. We all know this. But the fact of the matter is that abortion is never the only issue in an election, and it is on the back of any voter’s mind when their situation is dire (such as when he/she is unemployed with a family). In such a situation, you can’t call someone who wants to help their own situation a fake Catholic. You’re not in position to judge anyone’s devotion to God, especially when you clearly don’t know their problems.
So your videos only show why abortion is bad (which I already know) and makes the jump to say “This is non-negotiable”. Politics is not this simple.
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lutherlic
Guest
Faithful, well catechized, Catholics with properly formed consciences can vote for a pro-abortion candidate only when there are no pro-life candidates.
It is absolutely wrong to put other social justice issues above life issues (and by life, I am referring to life itself, not “quality of life”). It is also obviously wrong to put political interests above your faith.
I recommend those with confusion to read EWTN’s voter guide.
Also, The Most Rev. Raymond (Cardinal-designate) Burke (Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura and Archbishop Emeritus of St. Louis) published timely guidance, including:
It is absolutely wrong to put other social justice issues above life issues (and by life, I am referring to life itself, not “quality of life”). It is also obviously wrong to put political interests above your faith.
I recommend those with confusion to read EWTN’s voter guide.
Also, The Most Rev. Raymond (Cardinal-designate) Burke (Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura and Archbishop Emeritus of St. Louis) published timely guidance, including:
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
No. I suppose I am not “connected” to how voting works. I suppose I don’t understand why the world is on it’s way to hell in a hand basket. Does it have to do with the fact that we vote in officials who have no idea of what a human person is–or worse, they do, and still support abortion? Mother Teresa said (as quoted in one of the videos), ***“If abortion is not wrong then nothing is wrong.” *** Don’t you see? Abortion is non-negotiable because it has to do with human life–God’s greatest and most upheld gift. And what are you trying to do? You are trying to negotiate in a realm that cannot be negotiated.
“We need to stop calling ourselves ‘Catholic’ if we don’t stand with the Church in her teachings – all of them.” - Archbishop Charles Chaput
I am not judging anyone. A fact is that you cannot be pro-choice and Catholic. Even more importantly, you cannot vote pro-choice and consider yourself Catholic. Sorry.
If you had watched the other video I posted, you would know that the issue of abortion surpasses any other issue (economics, immigration, etc) in elections. The fact that you are, again, negotiating this fact to condone your liberal views is not getting you anywhere fast.
Why don’t you take the time to watch the other video I posted?
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sojo
Guest
Yup. Watched the videos. I agree (as I did before I watched) that abortion is murder. Wasn’t much impressed, to tell the truth. I’m pro-life, but those videos are pretty amateur. Have seen better and more convincing. Manipulating emotions is a honed art, for sure.
So it comes down to this: since neither the pro-choice or pro-life politician has had any change in the law regarding abortion, and since as time goes by, the Judges assure us that precedent is such that even pro-iife judges have no ability to reverse that decision… so for how long do we vote in folks who don’t want to support pregnant women or the diabled like the autistic (Sharron Angle) simply because they are pro-life, even though that stance will do NOTHING to promote life? A vote for person who is considered sub-educated and an outsider that nobody will take seriously in congress, and has no respect for care for life in the womb or the disabled???
It seems to those of us who take the time to investigate, that some “pro-life” candidates are simply checking the box to get some quickie votes. But their true actions, their life’s work are anything but pro-life.
I find it ironic that the “pro-life” republican politicians seem to care the most about abortion, but the least about th disabled, poor and elderly. I find that disturbing.
I think some Catholics need to seriously consider who they are getting into bed with.
So it comes down to this: since neither the pro-choice or pro-life politician has had any change in the law regarding abortion, and since as time goes by, the Judges assure us that precedent is such that even pro-iife judges have no ability to reverse that decision… so for how long do we vote in folks who don’t want to support pregnant women or the diabled like the autistic (Sharron Angle) simply because they are pro-life, even though that stance will do NOTHING to promote life? A vote for person who is considered sub-educated and an outsider that nobody will take seriously in congress, and has no respect for care for life in the womb or the disabled???
It seems to those of us who take the time to investigate, that some “pro-life” candidates are simply checking the box to get some quickie votes. But their true actions, their life’s work are anything but pro-life.
I find it ironic that the “pro-life” republican politicians seem to care the most about abortion, but the least about th disabled, poor and elderly. I find that disturbing.
I think some Catholics need to seriously consider who they are getting into bed with.
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
I agree.
And I think some Catholics need to seriously consider who they are being deceived by.
In other words, I wasn’t too impressed by your post.
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MarianD
Guest
“Abortion is non-negotiable because it has to do with human life”. Do issues such as war, unemployment, and healthcare also not deal with human life and the ability for another human to provide for his/her family? Most issues are about human life in various stages. Abortion deals with human life at the beginning, euthanasia at the end. But there are a plethora of issues that deal with what happens in the middle that we also must look at.
Sending young men and women off to fight a useless war is a waste of their lives and the lives of the innocents in the nation that is being invaded. This is a human life issue as well. This is why I’d tend to support an anti-war pro-choice candidate over a pro-war pro-life candidate.
Voting one way and having certain political views are different. I’d vote for Tim Cahill for my Governor because I like 99% of his policies, even though the 1% I don’t like is due to the fact that he’s pro-choice. Am I suddenly non-Catholic because of this, even though I aim everyday to get closer to God through the Sacraments?
Even then, I wouldn’t go out and say Sen. John Kerry or VP Joe Biden are not Catholics because of their stances on abortion. They see the issue from different perspectives than we do, but both see it as morally wrong. The human mind and the political sphere is far too complicated to declare one a non-Catholic simply because of their views on abortion.
My views are far from liberal, and I’d have to respectfully disagree that abortion surprasses every other issue. Human life is important from conception to death, and even beyond that. So why ignore the already-born who are suffering?
Let’s say that in 2016, the unemployment rate will be sky high. Healthcare costs will also be sky high. Taxes will be the same, as will the poverty rate.
The Presidential election is between Candidate X, who is pro-choice, and Candidate Y, who is pro-life.
Candidate X’s policies will lower the unemployment rate, lower healthcare costs, lower taxes, and lower the poverty rate. This will help so many people get by in this already difficult life. But, Candidate X is pro-choice.
Meanwhile, Candidate Y’s policies will only make these problems worse. However, Candidate Y is pro-life.
I could not in good conscience ignore the 315 million Americans (as there probably will be in 2016) who are suffering and struggling just so Candidate Y can ruin the nation but support pro-life policies that will not pass through Congress for him to sign anyway.
I will.Why don’t you take the time to watch the other video I posted?
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