Are there any Faithful Catholics voting for Pro Choice Candidates here?

[TheRealJuliane]

**I should have added in my previous posts that we do not support political parties, because political parties have strengths and weaknesses. ** It would be unfair to say that one is right and the other is wrong. We support moral positions. Given candidate X and Candidate Y, we support the candidate whose position is closest to the highest truth revealed through Jesus Christ.

It is important to remember that there is a hierarchy of truths. There are many truths. No single truth is more truthful than the other. That’s not what the hierarchy of truths means. The hierarchy of truths refers to which one is the most important truth.

If we look at the 10 commandments, they are in order of hierarchy. They are all truth. But the most important truth is the first and so forth. If you have to choose between two truths, because they are represented by different people and you can only pick one, then you pick the one closest to the top.

“I am the Lord your God and you shall have no other gods before me.” Therefore, my family, my job, my schooling, my home, etc cannot be my god. They are gifts that come from God. But God remains at the top of the pyramid of goods. We may not allow anyone to act as if they were God. That’s why we do not support those who support the right to kill the unborn, to euthanize or to destroy embryos. Their actions and beliefs are an affront to God’s authority over life and death.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Too many Catholics DO support a political party, and that is one big reason we’re where we are right now. That is why they twist themselves into knots trying to split hairs so they can justify continuing to vote for the party of abortion, fetal stem cell research and euthanasia.

 

[estesbob]

There are many things that would make things worse for us, and affects many different people of all kinds. Abortion does hit home, but so does limiting funding for education, raising taxes, creating new taxes, limiting healthcare, and other actions or inactions that affect whole groups of people.

None of which, as our Church wisely points, rises to the level of abortion. We simply cannot empower those who support the killing of our children because it might make ours or others’ lives a little better.

 

[RosaryFan]

Link - Here is some food for thought

Good article! I loved the last paragraph which states that the person with Downs was an “ideal human”. I agree! God’s living saints!! It’s a shame people don’t see it that way, but I guess that’s for another thread…

 

[JReducation]

The simple and obvious solution to the problem is to have good pro-life candidates run for office so that we can vote for them without worrying about such insignificant things, such as, oh I don’t know… maybe, our taxes going up so high that we have to sell our home. When I lived in another state, the taxes on our family home went from $6000 to $9000 a year. We have since sold our home and moved to another state, where the cost of living is more affordable. Yes, education and taxes are important too. I’m voting for the guy who is voting for ‘no state taxes’, and who is voting for increased funding for healthcare, and I don’t care what his position on abortion is. In fact, I don’t know what it is. Why? Because those who want to have an abortion will do so, whether I can pay my taxes or not. They will have their abortions whether or not the poor in my community are able to get healthcare or not. I have great insurance. However, those in my community who don’t are important too. I will vote for those I believe who can address the concerns of the people, which covers many areas, not just one area.

You may want to show this post to your bishop and ask if you can receive Holy Communion.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[gakroeger]

More positive news about the war on the culture of death; it appears that our younger generations are smarter than their parents and grandparents. See linked article.

Link to article Generation Y and Generation X are pro-life in larger numbers than the older generations.

While the percentages of people expressing pro-life positions is over 50% and increasing, the numbers of people over all who support abortion and euthanasia is disappointingly high. Among Catholics, only 66% believe that abortion is morally wrong and only 63% of Catholics believe euthanasia is wrong. Wow, I am 71 years old; does this mean if I get sick 37% of Catholics believe I should be euthanized?

Recent polling indicates a growth in the numbers of people claiming to be pro-life; this article attributes some of this growth to the extremely aggressive push toward more accessible and government funded abortions. It is kind of a strange irony that this move toward pro-life and the voting public’s move toward smaller government has been advanced by the very people who are pushing for the reverse. Maybe they have woken up the sleeping majority.

Note the statement toward the end of this article about the Knights of Columbus and their Ultrasound Initiative. I am proudly a member of this organization.

Third degree member of Our Lady of Light Council 10498 Estero Florida
Fourth degree member of Our Lady of the Rosary Assembly 2542 Naples Florida

 

[gakroeger]

The simple and obvious solution to the problem is to have good pro-life candidates run for office so that we can vote for them without worrying about such insignificant things, such as, oh I don’t know… maybe, our taxes going up so high that we have to sell our home. When I lived in another state, the taxes on our family home went from $6000 to $9000 a year. We have since sold our home and moved to another state, where the cost of living is more affordable. Yes, education and taxes are important too. I’m voting for the guy who is voting for ‘no state taxes’, and who is voting for increased funding for healthcare, and I don’t care what his position on abortion is. In fact, I don’t know what it is. Why? Because those who want to have an abortion will do so, whether I can pay my taxes or not. They will have their abortions whether or not the poor in my community are able to get healthcare or not. I have great insurance. However, those in my community who don’t are important too. I will vote for those I believe who can address the concerns of the people, which covers many areas, not just one area.

And in other plain english words, you don’t care what the Catholic Church teaches and will make your own decisions based on your priorities.

Rence, you are in my prayers…

 

[spunjalebi]

Wouldn’t it just be easier for the Church to have a rule that stated we’re only allowed to vote for Republicans, and be done with it? Or better yet-- that we are one-issue voters? I find this so ridiculous-- I would rather just have the Church come out and say it instead of side stepping it all the time.

An btw, I’m voting for Emmer in my state.

 

[Rascalking]

And in other plain english words, you don’t care what the Catholic Church teaches and will make your own decisions based on your priorities.

That’s out of line.

Perhaps Rence knows the difference between living in a world of perfection and the real world-which, is not perfect.

Everyone saying that they could never vote for a pro-choice canidate under any circumstances means well, but really doesn’t grasp how politics works in the realy world. Thankfully, the majority of pro-lifers realize that not everything is perfect, sometimes they need to get a pro-choicer in there who is the right party so they can advance the pro-life movement through other means.

 

[gakroeger]

Wouldn’t it just be easier for the Church to have a rule that stated we’re only allowed to vote for Republicans, and be done with it? Or better yet-- that we are one-issue voters? I find this so ridiculous-- I would rather just have the Church come out and say it instead of side stepping it all the time.

An btw, I’m voting for Emmer in my state.

This is absurd; this is what happens when people get blinded by their politics. The Church does not play politics regardless of how your tunnel vision sees it. The Church teaches morality not politics, it just so happens at this place and time in history; the Republican Party while far from perfect in its morals still maintains a pro-life platform. Life issues (abortion, euphanasia, embryonic stem cell research) trump all social issues. Until our government moves back to solid moral ground we will continue to suffer economic issues and maybe worse. God is not blind.

 

[estesbob]

That’s out of line.

Perhaps Rence knows the difference between living in a world of perfection and the real world-which, is not perfect.

Everyone saying that they could never vote for a pro-choice canidate under any circumstances means well, but really doesn’t grasp how politics works in the realy world. Thankfully, the majority of pro-lifers realize that not everything is perfect, sometimes they need to get a pro-choicer in there who is the right party so they can advance the pro-life movement through other means.

Worked out well with the health care vote, didnt it?

A Catholic can only vote for a pro-abortion canidate if their opponent is more pro-abortion than they are. you can not rationalize voting for a pro-abortion canidate by claiming they are better on other issues.

 

[JReducation]

Let’s not all jump all over one person either. I do believe that such a position has to be examined in light of what Cardnal Burke has just stated on this question. When the head of the highest tribunal in the Church says that Catholics may not vote for a pro-choice candidate and he spells it out, Catholics need to listen and ask questions of their bishops.

I’m not a canon lawyer. I don’t know if this means that Cardinal Burke is ruling against Catholics who vote for pro-choice candidates or if he is simply giving a warning. If he’s giving a ruling, there may be consequences attached to it. If he’s giving a moral warning, the situation is different, not less grave, just different consequences. Any faithful Catholic has a duty to find out what his or her status is with the Church if he votes for a pro-choice candidate.

It’s always important to remember that the Church did not join us, we joined the Church. We live by her laws or we leave. It’s that simple, even though it’s sad.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Rascalking]

. God is not blind.

Correct. God is not delusional either. So two people are running for office. You stay home. The more pro-choicer canidate wins, thus increasing the accesibility of abortion. When you die, you tell God, “I’m better than those other people. I didn’t vote for the canidate who was pro-choice at all!” God says, “Yes, but by staying home pal, you basically let the other guy win”.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I will vote for those I believe who can address the concerns of the people, which covers many areas, not just one area.

The rights of the people are being taken away inside the sanctuary of their mother’s wombs. That should be your main concern.

If Hitler were alive today and working toward another Holocaust of the Jews, you wouldn’t vote him into another term in office because of his views on immigration reform. I’m sorry you lost your house. I’m sorry things look bleak for those stuck in a rut financially. But murder is still murder. And stopping it should come first before all other things the devil has taught us to think of as “more important.”

Why aren’t you worried about a candidate’s stance on abortion? Wouldn’t you have factored in Hitler’s view of the Jews especially if you were one? The unborn are humans. You are human.

“Satan’s favorite color is Grey,” Father John Corapi once said. The devil has been trying to prove all along that abortion is not really murder, that the unborn are not really humans; just like he tried to dehumanize African slaves, or the Jews in the Holocaust.

Where did those beliefs in history bring us? To political downfall. To social downfall. Should we keep pushing these life issues aside like we did then?

Vote for a candidate who will do whatever they can to further the pro-life movement. Otherwise, “those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” And God may not be so merciful this time around. It’s time for His Justice.

 

[RosaryFan]

There are many things that would make things worse for us, and affects many different people of all kinds. Abortion does hit home, but so does limiting funding for education, raising taxes, creating new taxes, limiting healthcare, and other actions or inactions that affect whole groups of people.

What good is education, tax reform, healthcare, etc., when the core group of political leaders has no respect for my life, your life, the lives of everyone else? What good are all of our rights when our right to life is trampled upon by people who have no business doing so? What I’m trying to say is first and foremost, should be resepect for the dignity of human life. All the rest doesn’t matter when you don’t have that. Whenever a certain group of people is targeted for genocide, it should be Priority One to rid our society of that ill. In this case, abortion.

If you enter the voting booth and pull the lever of a pro-abortion politician, you are voting for the death of the unborn. The end result is the same whether you’re doing it because it’s the “lesser of the 2 evils” or because “you like his platform other than the abortion issue” or because “he’s young and handsome” or because “both parties are pro-abortion anyway”. End result is the same. You’re voting in someone who condones killing and is going to make sure your world condones it too.

How can you say other things are just as important?

 

[JReducation]

We don’t have a healthcare crisis, an economic crisis, an immigration crisis, we have something far worse. We have a moral crisis.

We are elevating other concerns to the same level of importance as the sacredness of life. The moral crisis comes into play, because God disagrees with us. For him, the sacredness of life is more important than our taxes, immigration and healthcare. The sacredness of life is all about him. Taxes, healthcare, immigration, education and so forth are about us. Throughout the scriture we always see God put himself first and our concerns second.

This is not to say that God does not love us or is indifferent to our concerns. What it means is that God is a God of Justice, first things first. This is the message that he gives to Judas when Judas complained that the expensive oil could have been sold and the money given to the poor. Jesus said, “The poor will always be with you.”

The message was pretty easy. “I’m God, the poor are not.” Therefore, our first priority in life must be to do justice to God. We cannot claim to be Catholic and flip the priorities around where we do justice to us then to God. Justice to God demands that we feel as passionate and as committed to the protection of life as he does. This often requires a bloodless martyrdom.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[gakroeger]

We don’t have a healthcare crisis, an economic crisis, an immigration crisis, we have something far worse. We have a moral crisis.

We are elevating other concerns to the same level of importance as the sacredness of life. The moral crisis comes into play, because God disagrees with us. For him, the sacredness of life is more important than our taxes, immigration and healthcare. The sacredness of life is all about him. Taxes, healthcare, immigration, education and so forth are about us. Throughout the scriture we always see God put himself first and our concerns second.

This is not to say that God does not love us or is indifferent to our concerns. What it means is that God is a God of Justice, first things first. This is the message that he gives to Judas when Judas complained that the expensive oil could have been sold and the money given to the poor. Jesus said, “The poor will always be with you.”

The message was pretty easy. “I’m God, the poor are not.” Therefore, our first priority in life must be to do justice to God. We cannot claim to be Catholic and flip the priorities around where we do justice to us then to God. Justice to God demands that we feel as passionate and as committed to the protection of life as he does. This often requires a bloodless martyrdom.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Well said Br.

Your statement in bold should be true, unfortunately, it is not. Obviously, we have Catholics on this thread who flip their priorities around.

 

[gakroeger]

That’s out of line.

Perhaps Rence knows the difference between living in a world of perfection and the real world-which, is not perfect.

Everyone saying that they could never vote for a pro-choice canidate under any circumstances means well, but really doesn’t grasp how politics works in the realy world. Thankfully, the majority of pro-lifers realize that not everything is perfect, sometimes they need to get a pro-choicer in there who is the right party so they can advance the pro-life movement through other means.

Out of line by whose critria? The poster claims to be Catholic and openly admits voting contrary to Catholic teaching.

And, just what is it that qualifys you to make the statement in bold? I suspect I have voted in more elections and understand the cause and effect better than you. (This is based on your response). No, it is not a perfect world and it never will be in this life, but we can use our vote to attempt to make it better not worse. Until we realize that we cannot deny the right to life of ANY class of human being, we are doomed to keep repeating our sorry history.

 

[Rascalking]

Out of line by whose criteria? The poster claims to be Catholic and openly admits voting contrary to Catholic teaching.

By the criteria of being reasonable. Just because someone does vote a certian way doesn’t mean they reject church teachings.

You can’t read minds, remember that as well.

 

[RosaryFan]

That’s out of line.

Perhaps Rence knows the difference between living in a world of perfection and the real world-which, is not perfect.

Everyone saying that they could never vote for a pro-choice canidate under any circumstances means well, but really doesn’t grasp how politics works in the realy world. Thankfully, the majority of pro-lifers realize that not everything is perfect, sometimes they need to get a pro-choicer in there who is the right party so they can advance the pro-life movement through other means.

We don’t grasp how politics work? I know how it works - if someone is pro-abortion, I can’t support them. How else should it work? If Hitler was running for Governor, would you vote for him because, well, he’s not “perfect”, but he’s got a good handle on the economy?

Lastly, by what “other means” should we advance the pro-life movement? Politics is THE means. Since the Supreme Court went and stuck their noses is the God-given rights of over 50 million people, then politics is it.

 

[RosaryFan]

By the criteria of being reasonable. Just because someone does vote a certian way doesn’t mean they reject church teachings.

Oh, yes it does. That’s exactly what it means.